Chateau Latour 2005 for $27 anyone?

[Comte Flaneur]

Well not quite...

...it is the third wine of Ch Latour bottled generically by the Wine Society in the UK on sale for 19 pounds. Zachys sell the 2004 Pauillac De Latour for $80, now on sale for $64, so this struck me as too good to pass up.

"This impeccable Pauillac comes via the back door of one of the most famous châteaux of Bordeaux. The Society cannot reveal the name of the château of origin – it is a condition of purchase that we don’t – but its provenance is assured. This ‘third’ wine, from the same scrupulously cultivated vineyard as the esteemed grand vin, is an uncommonly good Pauillac. At a third of the price of the château’s second wine, it is an outstanding bargain."

I will never be able to afford the Grand Vin ($2500 a bottle, on sale for $2000, or 74 to 95 times as much), and even if I could it won't be ready until my grandchildren are grown up.

I also bought a case of Burlotto Barolo Vigneto Monvigliero Verduno 2004 from TWS at $43 a bottle. This estate produces outstanding old style barolo and is a well kep secret. Who say's deflation - this tme of the UK pound - is a bad thing?

Finally hat tip to PappaDoc. Those Raveneaus (Chablis 1er Cru Montee De Tonnerre 2001) are fabulous at $65, still youthful. I am going to chance it and lay the remaining two down. Over the holidays I drank some 1997 and 1998 Dauvissats and they were fine, no sign of premox.

[alchemeus]

I don't know if it's the same supplier but years ago (maybe the 2000 vintage where this began?) these 'third wine' grapes where bought in. Yeah, bought a couple of these at around 20 bucks then (2002 or 2003). Didn't care for them at the time as they were drying and tannic with little if any fruit and no class. Might have been OK a few years down the road, or worse, who knows, but 'a few years down the road is NOT why I buy a third wine. Village Rhone is a 'few years down the road'. A 'third wine' is NOW.

Be interested in the results you get. My initial experience was 'never again'.

[Comte Flaneur]

Alch it is good to see you, veritable BWE legend that you are, back in the land of the living...stay tuned, I will report back to be sure.

Dirty little secret here I was trading on some inside information...the story goes something like this...Les Forts is not a proper second wine, it is actually a de facto second growth, and this stuff I brought is the second wine...think Carruades...which aint worth those hi falutin' prices there were goin for but at twenty something bucks is worth the splurge...what I call a good risk reward trade...

[PhilR]

Is this the "mystery pauillac" that I asked about a while ago on BWE?

http://groups.msn.com/BordeauxWineEnthu ... age=149911

If so, let me know how you get on. In fact, let me know how you get on whether it's that or not.

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes indeed it is Phil

I got interested because the price hike for the 2005 is relatively modest.

I am certain it is Latour, the issue boils down to whether it is the 3rd wine, or basically the 4th wine of Latour.

If it is the latter the Wine Society has been telling porkies - or is being economical with the actualite - because they say explicitly it is the third wine, made on the premises.

The third wine normally comes under the label "Pauillac De latour" and that brown Latour tower leitmotif adds a lot to the kudos of the bottle. If this is indeed the third wine it is probably a bargain...if it is basically the fourth wine it may not be great value at all.

Did you try the 04, and do you want some of the 05? For better or for worse I bought a dozen. If it is crap I can give it away or put in the goulash.

Ian

P.S. Btw the reference to Godot in my firts thread alluded to Samuel Beckett's play "waiting for Godot"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot

[hendrikus]

My case of this mysterious wine arrived at the weekend (from the Wine Society). Quickly opened a bottle and was not disappointed. It seems like the third wine to me, and for the money is a very impressive Pauillac indeed. It does seem more like a second wine (to Forts), and thus is a genuine 'third' wine to Latour. I really don't think it is a fourth wine! Whatever it is, it is without doubt Latour. And for the price, I would buy it soon.

[Comte Flaneur]

Thanks for the feedback Hendrikus - are you based in the UK? I guess you must be...on another board a lot of people were very sceptical about this wine. They made the valid point that why would Latour sell this wine to TWS when it could bottle it under its own label at a much higher price?

I have initiated a steward's enquiry with TWS and Chateau Latour. I hope to hear back from them tomorrow (in the words of Peter Cook and I not going to take "no reply" for an answer...)Ominously TWS have taken it off their list...maybe it has sold out, or maybe they have been economical with the actualite? My delivery is down for tomorrow morning, but I doubt it will arrive beacuse of the snow.

But I am grateful for the feedback and look forward to trying one in a couple of weeks.

[Pemm82]

I've had the 2004 Pauillac de Latour 2 years ago, a lovely wine. At 27$, this is a steal.
One thing though, this wine is bottled by the estate and indeed is the third label of the estate.
Details direct from the property are available here: http://www.chateau-latour.fr/wines/pauillac.html

Interesting to note that Quarin rates consistently this third label since the 1995 vintage with ratings from 86 up to 91 (for the 2005).
Comte, I guess the question is whether this wine is the one listed on the estate's website or a different cuvée made from grapes purchased at the estate....?

[Comte Flaneur]

I can confirm it is definitely a Latour and it is definitely made and bottled at the estate. OK so it wasn't picked by 16-year old left-handed virgins under a full moon, nor lovingly nurtured by monsieur Engerer, but its basically the equivalent of Pauillac Latour. I look forward to trying one soon and will report back.

[alchemeus]

I can confirm it is definitely a Latour and it is definitely made and bottled at the estate.

Does this mean there are even less cases of Chateau Latour, or just less cases of the second wine.

I mean, they have only a set amount of acreage of vines.

I honestly didn't care for it. Better non-classed growths for less money for my palate.

[Comte Flaneur]

I can confirm it is definitely a Latour and it is definitely made and bottled at the estate.

Does this mean there are even less cases of Chateau Latour, or just less cases of the second wine.

I mean, they have only a set amount of acreage of vines.

I honestly didn't care for it. Better non-classed growths for less money for my palate.

The basic problem is that they now produce something like 30-40k cases of incredible wine from the best terroir on earth. The Brits turned their noses up at this, but the inside track is that it is a beauty; will revert.

[JimHow]

The basic problem is that they now produce something like 30-40k cases of incredible wine from the best terroir on earth.

Amen, brother....

I've often said that that plot of land at the Latour/Las Cases border is literally the best terroir for wine grapes on Planet Earth.

[alchemeus]

I have no idea.

But Comte.

What happened to all this extra wine in the past hundred plus years?

They "now produce"?

Like the junk grapes weren't worth making before, but now are.

I'm just confused here.

Latour is a brand now, not a Class.

[Comte Flaneur]

Alch

The production of the grand vin is typically 18-20k cases, the production of Les Forts is typically 8-10k and the production of Pauillac Latour is way smaller. Arguably Les Forts is not really a second wine at all - well, it is consistently the best second wine out there, and arguably a second growth in its own right - so Pauillac is de facto the second wine. So with this wine you are getting something where no poor wine is produced from the greatest terroir on planet earth, from the greatest vintage...well, perhaps in the last million years. The downside is that this is $20 swill...the upside is that it tastes as good as a $50 wine - that is what I call a good, 3:1, trade.

[alchemeus]

Sheesh, comte. Not my experience. This 'third wine' of Latour just isn't worth it. Price wise. I just can buy better wines lesser for the money. Just me, maybe you have a different experience. No biggie, just a difference.

That's all.

[Comte Flaneur]

I finally tried on last night, here is my note:

Popped the first Wine Society "mystery" (i.e., worst kept secret) 2005 Pauillac tonight, less than 72 hours after a transatlantic crossing. Bright sparkly purple (rather than deep purple); young, vibrant, light on its feet it dances across the palate. On the nose a delightful smokey, minerally, raspberry fruit; deft with great delineation and purity of fruit - laser-like. As advertised on the label, this is the essence of Pauillac. Shades of the great chateau, I would say this wine is from very young vines. Excellent winemaking and no rough edges. You can certainly get more stuffing for the money (Langoa 04?) but I am very happy with this. Was going to split this but I think I will keep it to myself - as it says on the back drink 2009-2015.

Not bad for what is essentially a fourth wine.