NWR: Who is the greatest athlete of all-time in any sport?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:03 pm

I was having a huge debate about this last night with my brother Dan.

My choice:

Bill Russell

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:14 pm

Lance Armstrong

(Or Michael Johnson)

Tiger Woods is the greatest shagger of all time....GRRR...Easy Tiger!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:15 pm

Russell was great but not even among the top ten basketball players. Moreover, he would have trouble starting on many teams today because he is undersized for the center position and not sufficiently athletic and too poor a shooter to play forward. Also, unlike the other very famous center during much of his career, Russell couldn't deal with more than one woman a night.

I nominate Bob Hamman.

stefan

Michael Malinoski · Post by **Michael Malinoski** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:31 pm

stefan wrote:Russell was great but not even among the top ten basketball players.

You cannot be serious. It ain't all about the stats.

11× NBA Champion (1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969)
5× NBA MVP (1958, 1961–1963, 1965)
12× NBA All-Star (1958–1969)
3× All-NBA First Team Selection (1959, 1963, 1965)
8× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1958, 1960–1962, 1964, 1966–1968)
1× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1969)
1× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1963)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
2nd All-time in rebounds

Maybe not #1 in hoops, but certainly easily top 10, IMO.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:41 pm

You can't compare athletes of past eras based on their size to athletes of today, they would never win.
Babe Ruth wouldn't even make a Double A team today.
Rocky Marciano wouldn't beat the average middleweight of today.
You have to judge how they did against their peers.
Bill Russell won 11 championships in 13 years, a feat never matched by any athlete in any sport, a feat that no mone will ever again even come close to.
He was captain of the 1956 U.S. Olympic basketball team that won the gold in Melbourne. He won national championships twice with the University of San Francisco in 1955 and 1956, including 55 straight victories.
He was a defensive genius, often taking down more than 40 rebounds in key playoff games. He once grabbed over 50 rebounds in a game. Not very sexy in this era of offense and slam dunks and homeruns and steroids and long touchdown passes, but equally effective.
He was a leader in the civil rights movement, thrived in the racially charged city of Boston in the 1960s, won a gold medal for the U.S,. Olympic team despite not being able to even stay at the same hotels as the rest of the team.
He was a five time MVP and twelve time All Star.
He was the first African-American NBA coach.
In his later years he won championships as a player coach.
Jordan did some great things in the league-- after Bird and Magic left-- but his accomplishments don't even come close to Russell's.
Babe Ruth is my possible other first pick because of his impact on the sport of baseball and American culture, but I'll go with Russell. It's a toss-up....
Russell has written several thoughtful books, along with a small pudgy Brooklyn guy by the name of Red Aurbach set an example of how to overcome racial barriers.
When Ali refused to go to Vietnam, Russell was by his side.
In his final game in 1969, the heavy underdog Celtics beat Wilt and the Lakers in Game 7 in Los Angeles after Russell famously pointed before he game to the celebration balloons in the rafters and said: "Those balloons are not coming down."
There was a man!

RDD · Post by **RDD** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:10 am

Comte Flaneur wrote:Lance Armstrong

(Or Michael Johnson)

Tiger Woods is the greatest shagger of all time....GRRR...Easy Tiger!

I pick Eddy Merckx over Lance.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:23 am

Russell was great but had the advantage of playing on great teams. Certainly he deserved being on the NBA "top 50" team. But not in the top ten.

Bob Hamman won 11 world team championships and has 10 seconds. He was player of the year three times and has 50(!) North American championships, spread over five decades.

It ain't a close comparison.

stefan

William P · Post by **William P** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:26 am

Jim Thorpe, greatest athlete period. However, I can't argue against a USF bballer.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:37 am

Other contenders:

Joe Louis
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Michael Jordan
Tiger Woods
Jack Nicklaus
Rocky Marciano
Sugar Ray Robinson
Lance Armstrong
Jim Thorpe
Willie Mays
Hank Aaron
Secretariat
Joe Montana
Muhammad Ali

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:49 am

Carl Lewis (perfection)
Mark Spitz (so much better than the current pretender, heck, he swam with a moustache!)
Michael Jordan (best athlete I've ever seen)
Roger Federer (Ice in veins)
Jerry Rice (Montana would be nowhere without Rice)

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:51 am

I was thinking about adding Rice.
Federer definitely belongs on the list for consideration.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:22 am

stefan wrote:I nominate Bob Hamman.

So that would be contact bridge instead of contract?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:27 am

A-Rod and/or Jeter!!!!!!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:33 am

How can you blaspheme Derek Jeter by mentioning that schoolgirl in the same breath?
I'm a Sox fan and even I like Jeter.
ARod, on the other hand, is, well, this is a family website....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:57 am

I only contracted Bob, Tom.

One moment of personal glory against Bob came in a national board of match team game when my partner and I played against Bob and his partner, Kyle Larsen (this was a long time ago) in one round. On the first board, I got a count of the hand and led the toward the king-queen empty and ducked, forcing Bob's singleton ace and getting gasps from the kibitzers. He was furious with Kyle for about 3 seconds for not leading the suit early, before I had the count, then realized that I had an easy squeeze for the trick I needed if I had gone with an honor from the dummy (I was playing to the kibitzers). On the next board, trying to get back to even, Bob underled KQxxx on my right after getting the lead when I was playing 3NT and I took two tricks with AJ opposite nothing in a hopeless contract.

Unfortunately, despite this great round my team did not win or even come close.

stefan

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:26 pm

Stefan, even better than the actual play is your call of it.

Russell could score too. No pun intended.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:54 pm

Blimey! Ninety-nine percent of the world's greatest athletes are American...many of whom I have never heard of!

I think I should start a thread on the world's greatest rock'n'roll bands...

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:41 pm

In purely objective terms surely the answer is one 22 year old Jamaican - Usain Bolt

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:07 am

I was just joking about A-Fraud and Jeter (who's great, but not the greatest).

What about Oscar Robertson, whom I believe averaged a triple-double for something like his whole career?

I might vote for Muhammad Ali. In my life-time of sports-watching, it's hard to vote against Jordan.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:08 am

Comte Flaneur wrote:Blimey! Ninety-nine percent of the world's greatest athletes are American...many of whom I have never heard of!

Duh!

ok, Ian
Daley Thompson
Billy Bremner
Johnny Giles
Peter Lorimer
Sebastian Coe

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:09 am

The Great One, Wayne Gretzky. Doesn't he hold every major scoring record in the NHL?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:33 am

I would vote for Bobby Orr over Gretzky in the NHL.
I'll add Pele to the list of honorable mentions.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:33 am

Bruins bias

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:27 am

>>
What about Oscar Robertson, whom I believe averaged a triple-double for something like his whole career?
>>

One year he averaged a triple double. He was amazing and would still be an excellent player today.

Bob Hamman, on the other hand, was winning world championships in Oscar's prime and is still winning them.

stefan

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:06 pm

Jim, you did say "any sport"...

After Googling Bob Hamman, who I think I had barely heard of before, I have to agree with Stefan. Top-ranked player in the world for 24 straight years? That's pretty damn impressive, even if it is a sport where the physical limitations of age don't come into play as rapidly as in the physical sports.

And no F1 or NASCAR drivers even make the nomination list (Schumacher, Johnson, Petty)?

Now if you are asking about the physical sports, even though the guy rubs me the wrong way, I'll cast my vote for Lance Armstrong.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:19 pm

Is bridge a sport?

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:40 pm

How about Chess? Poker? Backgammon? Gin Rummy?

Come on, there never was a better athlete than Michael Jordan but for all around excellence I'm willing to vote for a decathlete: Daley Thompson is my man.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:48 pm

I nominate Bobby Fischer.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:21 pm

Bridge IS a sport:

>>
In June 1995, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) admitted the World Bridge Federation (WBF) as 'part of the Olympic Movement', awarding it the status of a 'Recognized Sport Organization'. This recognition was accorded under Rule 4 of the Olympic Charter.
>>

See

http://www.worldbridge.org/IOC/IOC.htm

stefan

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:39 am

Don Bradman.
Wins hands down.

William P · Post by **William P** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:51 pm

College Football Hall of Fame - 1951

. Charter Enshrinee in the Pro Football Hall of Fame - 1963

. All-American - 1911, 1912

- Profession baseball with NY Giant, Boston Braves and Cincinnati Reds

. Olympic Decathlon and Pentathlon Champion - 1912

. AP Most Outstanding Athlete of the First Half of the 20th Century - 1950

. "America's Greatest Football Player of the half-century" - 1950

. ABC's Wide World of Sports Athlete of the Century - 2001

. Track and Field Hall of Fame

. In 1950, the nation's press selected Jim Thorpe as the most outstanding athlete of the first half of the 20th Century

. From 1996-2001, he was continuously awarded ABC's Wide World of Sports Athlete of the Century award

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:45 pm

OK, BIll, I'm convinced.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:43 pm

I guess it depends on where your loyalties lie. Living in Canada the only sport that really counts and keeps us going through the winter is Hockey. Maybe a little biased however all of the names listed apart from Bolt are Americans with honourable mention to Pele so I'll support the greatest hockey player of all time Wayne Gretzky(The Great One) over Gordie Howie(Mr Hockey). Sorry Jim,Bobby Orr was certainly amazing and may have become the greatest ever but had his career cut short because of bad knees. With todays surgical knee reconstructive and arthroscopic techniques Bobby Orr would probably have surpassed Howe and Gretzky.

The STATs don't lie.

“The Great One’s” incredible career came to a close after three years with the Blues and 21 years in the NHL. His career totals include 894 goals, 1,963 assists, and 2,857 points. He holds a combined 61 NHL regular season, playoffs, and all-star game records. He won ten Art Ross Trophies, and nine Hart Trophies, including eight in a row from 1980-1987.

Career Highlights, Awards, and Accolades:
Won Lou Kaplan Trophy in 1979 as WHA Rookie of the Year.
Won Hart Memorial Trophy as NHL’s MVP: 1980-87.
Won Art Ross Trophy as NHL’s top scorer: 1981-87, 1990, 1991, and 1994.
Won Conn Smith Trophy as NHL playoff MVP: 1985, and 1988.
Won Lester B. Pearson Award for NHL outstanding player, voted by his peers: 1982-85, 1987.
Awarded Lady Byng Memorial Trophy for sportsmanship: 1980, 1991-92, 1994, and 1999.
Voted Chrysler-Dodge/NHL Performer of the Year: 1985-87.
Awarded the Lester Patrick Trophy in 1994 for outstanding service to hockey in the United States.
Awarded the Lou Marsh Trophy as Canadian Athlete of the Year: 1982-83, 1985, and 1989.
Three-time NHL All-Star MVP: 1983, 1989, and 1999.
Eight-time NHL First All-Star Team: 1981-87, and 1991.
Seven-time NHL Second All-Star Team: 1980, 1988-90, 1994, 1997, and 1998.
In 1984 named an Officer of the Order of Canada.
Elected to the Hockey Hall of fame on November 22, 1999.
Holds all-time record with 92 goals in a season.
Holds all-time record with 215 points in a season.
Holds all-time record with 163 assists in a season.
Only player in NHL history to score 200 or more points in a season.
Holds all-time record in career points with 2,857.

Maybe we'll see these records fall with the likes of Sidney Crosby,Alexander Ovechkin etc.

Danny

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:17 am

It's doubtful if anyone will ever surpass Gretzky's dominance of hockey (or any sport), but he never scored a "Gordie Howe hat-trick."
-Chasse

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:40 am

Gretzky was great, but you shoulda' seen Orr.

Nobody changed the sport of hockey more than Bobby Orr.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:59 am

I did in fact see Bobby Orr play live once. The Bruins were playing the Rangers at the Garden. I am a Ranger fan, just so you know. It was a close game for awhile, but of course the Bruins and Montreal used to feast on the Rangers all the time in those days. Anyway, it was 2-1 Bruins late in the game, and then on a power play (If memory serves me correctly), Bobby Orr drilled a slapshot into the low corner from the right point to make it 3-1. After that it was basically over. The Bruins got an empty net goal and won it, 4-1. Typical Rangers result from those days.

BTW, if you ever want to read a really great hockey book, check out Ken Dryden's biography. It's brilliant and essential reading for any hockey nut. Of course, there's a whole chapter devoted to Bobby Orr.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:22 am

I have indeed read it, Chris, it is indeed a great sports book.

Of all the great athletes we've had on the Red Sox, Bruins, Celtics and Patriots over the years, to this day my favorite athlete is still Bobby Orr.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:33 am

Speaking of the great ones, I'm listening to a 1955 recording of Don Giovanni on Decca - Cesar Siepi as Donny G. with Josef Krips conducting the Vienna Phil. It's fantastic.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:47 pm

Jim,

Must be the French Canadian ancestry still deep in your blood giving you that passion for hockey. Bobby Orr was truly a great player. We just got back from a 5 day golf trip to Punta Cana Dominican Republic. David Ortiz had a Pro-Am that was just finishing up as we arrived. Mid week we met the event planner who was from New Jersey and we got to talking about the event and she said her highlight of the week was meeting......Bobby Orr who was at the event. Didn't see him but Louis Tiant and Ortiz were on the same shuttle going to dinner and eventually stayed to eat right next to us. Nice guys.

If anyone loves to golf out there the Punta Espada course at Cap Cana is unbelieveable. Pebble Beach has the fame but this has the vistas,challenge and grooming of one of the world's greatest ocean courses designed by Nicklaus with 10 holes on the ocean. Amazing!!

Danny

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:55 pm

Wow that's great Danny, I saw that Bobby Orr was down there at the Ortiz event.
He's a class act, he's been very active in the Boston community over the years, especially with charities.
For a brief shining time in the early seventies the Bruins were the most popular team in New England, even surpassing the Sox.
There are hundreds of municipal ice rinks throughout New England to this day because of the influence of Number Four over thirty years ago.