Your Bordeaux 2009 buying plan

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:32 am

With the 2009 Bordeaux prices coming out slowly, and the prices will be outrageous, what is your buying plan regarding that vintage? Is it:

A. I will buy the 2009 at any price (or no, I won't let my favorite wines be drink by Asian consummers only).
B. I will limit my buying to few Grand Cru Classé, my favorite estate as I can't pass (I will find the money for my fav estates, even if I need to mortgage the house).
C. No choice, I will buy some 2009, but only some Crus Bourgeois (after all, it is about time that I figure out that the Crus Classés are a big marketing thing, and the Cru Bourgeois in great vintages are not so far apart).
D. Buy wines from other region (Too much is too much, let see how those Cabernet and Merlot wines from Hungaria look like, or I will buy La Tâche and Lalas as they are relative bargain compared to 09 Lafite or Lafleur ).
E. Buy one bottle, open and try, complaint to the estate it was a bad product (corked or anything else), hopping that the estate will do like for the Budweiser company, send me a letter of excuses and 6 free bottles to compense...
F. Any other...

The prices are not all out, but I will try to respect option B. But a mix of C and D is maybe more appropriate.

Nic

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:02 am

F. Pass and wait for the next fire sale.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:57 am

If I saw some fabulous bargains I perhaps would buy now, but as prices are likely to be highest ever for most properties, and I have a full cellar, I'll try to attend a UGC tasting in 2012 of the 2009s in bottle and then look for sales of what I like. It is hard to say, but my guess is that most wines will not appreciate in value from release price for years, and given the trend toward more quality producers and vintages, and increased knowledge and technology, there's not going to be a shortage of high quality wine.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:02 am

Yeah, if I had to drink wines like Petite Castel all the time instead of Bordeaux I would be fine.

jal · Post by **jal** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:11 pm

The strategy is always the same:

Buy futures if you believe prices will be lower than on release (I don't think that will be the case with the 2009, but you be the judge)
Buy released wines based on 1) you taste and like a bottle 2) someone you trust recommends it.

tim · Post by **tim** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:41 pm

Believe it or not, my current strategy is D: other regions. I want to learn more about Burgundy and expand the palate a bit.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:37 pm

Based on my age, I think that 2009 Bordeaux is not in the cards for me - except possible some lower level wines that will be drinkable at a young age. I also will like employ the strategy of looking at other regions, and one of those will likely be Burgundy for 2009.

Jon

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:43 pm

I too am interested in Burgundy 2008 and 2009. I'll probably buy a half dozen cases or so of 2008 Bordeaux.
At the prices I'm seeing for 2009 Bordeaux, I'm going to pass.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:46 pm

What about the under the radar gems that BWE has championed over the years? If it is as epic as claimed, there will have to be some terrific bargains in 2009.

That said, the 2005 vintage showed that for all but the highest rated wines will not likely escalate in price in 2009, so buying futures across the board makes little sense. Avoid futures, try 'em on release, make sure you like the style, etc. Of course, the caveats apply to unusual formats and small production
chateau.

I'm buying 2-3 mixed cases as futures on some wines that I usually like, but no more until I taste them first.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:49 am

Keep an eye on PJ's 2009 futures, they are starting to trickle out and they usually have some of the best prices in the country.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:31 am

I bought some name 2008's that seemed well priced (Clos Fourtet @ $40, Clinet @ $53 seemed liked deals relative to oh so many $50 Cali Cabs), and I'm sure I'll buy some 09's but they'll be wines to drink while I wait for my 66's, 75's, 86's and 95's to come around...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:24 am

The 2009 Vrai Canon Bouche at PJs for $24.97 is on my radar.
I liked the 2003 version of that wine and it seems to be getting high marks since then.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:13 am

I'd like to duplicate a plan like Tom's.

Jim - is it the wine spectator review (85-88) that makes the Vrai Canon Bouche' look so good?

I wouldn't mind buying a few '09 QPRs that are promising, but I think I'll wait 'till I can try them. One would be '09 Lilian Ladouys (ws 92-95, wa 84-86). I'd buy for $20 now if I could trust spectator's review.

Quite a few mentions of Burgundy above....was '09 also a good vintage there?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:21 am

Jon, He Who Shall Remain Nameless has it at 91-93 with the little asterisk signifying "best ever" from this estate.... Silliness, I know, but the 2003, which is the one and only vintage of this wine I have tried, was a quality effort.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:13 am

$25 is quite a coup for Vrai Canon Bouche. The 03 was $12.99 "everyday pricing" but I got a case for $9.99 per. I've got about 3 left I think.

I seriously doubt I will pay up for anything in this vintage (not that it is a habit of mine) and no more fliers (although this generally worked well with the 05s I bought). One wine I will probably buy is the Faizeau, which is actually offered a buck less than what I paid for the 05. That wine has blown me away the 3 times I've had it, and I am hoarding my last 5 or 6 bottles.

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:58 pm

I just don't get the strategy of buying small chateaux on futures, I'll be honest. First, I don't think the prices are a bargain and will appreciate, second, I'll be surprised if the wines disappear once released but even if they are hard to find, one can always discover other great small chateaux.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:45 pm

I swore off futures purchases for '09s. No need for more Bdx. Insane prices. Will be available for same or less on release. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Now that prices are starting to come out, I am weakening.

I need help to strengthen my resolve. Something tells me this is not the right place to come for this, but...

Barde Haut is available locally for $34/btl.
Pontet Canet is avaiable locally for $119/btl.

Tell me I am insane to consider buying these.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:52 pm

Barde Haut is a rational price, I won't pay that much for Pontet Canet though.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:46 pm

Not insane; just crazy, David.

I might buy a case of Lanessan $218 just to have something from 2009, but nothing else looks reasonable to me.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:34 pm

The 2000 Pontet Canet is still available for $70, some times less. So, no 2009 for me, even if it's really that much better.

Stefan and others, what about Cantemerle, Chasse Spleen, Marquis de Terme, Poujeaux in 2009? These are all between $25-$30.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:14 pm

Geez, that didn't take long for the resolve to weaken. I bought a case of '09 Pavie Macquin....

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:54 pm

That's it. Echoes of 03 Pontet Canet (which now appears not to be even one of the four best of this decade - I feel jobbed). Buy all the 09 Pavie Mac you can.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:31 pm

OK, putting away the credit card now, no Pontet Canet for me. But the Barde Haut, hmmm...

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:27 pm

I like '05 Barde Haut ($33), and thought it was a fair value, and the '09 doesn't seem unreasonably priced. However, I'm not sure it will disappear from the marketplace, or appreciate too much before release.

While Pontet Canet may be reasonable compared to a few wines (e.g. 1sts, super 2nds, many Pomerols), and it may appreciate a little if they play the small first tranche game, there are certainly comparable Pontet Canet wines in recent vintages for a lot less cost. 2005 was $70 at first release. Winex should be selling the '09 for $109. As Hound points out, I don't need any more PC in my cellar.

I have a vertical of Pavie Macquin (except for '06 and '07) going back to '98, so I was pleased to see this at less than '05 first release price.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:24 am

Just saw L'Evangile at $260+...makes Pontet Canet seem like a steal at $110 if it gets the 100 pt rating...

Seems a lot like betting on FDA approval for some small biotech's wonder product....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:42 am

Patrick, those are the level wines that seem to have decent QPR in '09. I think if you have a special liking for one it makes sense to buy it on futures even if these wines typically don't appreciate much. I'll probably buy La Lagune if the price is good.

Winesense · Post by **Winesense** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:21 am

I will go for the recomendation of swiss critc Rene Gabriel. He is quite good in find reasonable priced great wine that RP overlooked.

(see http://weingabriel.ch/271101.html).

I think I go for le Boscq, Haut Bages Liberal,Pédesclaux, Haut-Condissas , Rauzan-Ségla, Gazin.

In recent vintages there is always enough good wine at a good price.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:48 pm

The 2009 Ducru Beaucaillou is offered at $2 at K&L. Flash Crash? At that price, I'm in.

http://www.klwines.com/detail.asp?sku=1055086

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:32 pm

I was too late on the $2 DB....it was out of stock!

Remember to use your Amex card on futures purchases!

For some late night reading, JJ Buckley has an '09 Bdx trip report at

http://www.jjbuckley.com/dl

One interesting dissection was their report on consultants....how Rolland focuses on the lab/wine making side, and Deronentenniscourt focuses on the vineyards, and in this vintage they thought the vineyard focus resulted in better wines.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:07 pm

If wines like Lagrange end up in the $60+ range it is going to be a sad day for Bordeaux....

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:23 pm

Zachy's just sent out a notice on 2009 futures. Some insane prices! St Pierre for $75!? La Lagune for $55! Rausan Segla for $95! Talbot for $57!

A sad day, indeed. I just bought some '88 Rausan Segla (a wine I love) for $75, with perfect provenance. Geez!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:26 pm

You know, I keep my legal fees reasonable, during good times and bad. And it has paid off immensely over the past twenty-five years. I guess not everyone is like me. I wonder if the greed will ever catch up with them. Probably not, this whole Asia thing has probably changed everything forever.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:17 pm

Hey Jim

The 2009 Pontet Canet looks like Charles Atlas next your seven stone weakling 2003 - no offence

http://www.farrvintners.com/winelist_ep ... comments=1

It has blown the (bloody) doors off on the first day on sale in the UK...but lets face it probably a bargain next to Cos D'Estournel (you will have to be sitting down when they release the price of that...)

Kicking myself for missing this: this estate makes the most complete wine in Bordeaux day...I will maintain the pretence that the traditional 1996 is inevitably the better wine...may have to bite the bullet and buy some for my grand kids. You are probably right Jim the noughties Bordeaux probably put the 80s to shame.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:11 am

Lowest retail that I could find on the 2009 Pontet-Canet was Binnys. $108/750. Just listed this afternoon.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:10 am

I'm still a big believer in the 2003 Pontet-Canet, I just don't think it should be touched for at least another five years.
I have no doubt that subsequent vintages of Pontet-Canet have been great, perhaps even surpassing the '03.
Then again, we have touted the greatness of this property since the earliest hours of BWE's existence.
I have no doubt Alfred Tesseron has spared no costs in producing his RMP 97-100, and I would be surprised if it is a "modernized" effort, I almost think that neighborhood of Pauillac is incapable of producing an internationalized wine. I have no doubt it is much better than a California wine at that price level. Of course, I don't drink California wines at any price level. If there is any Bordeaux producer I don't begrudge asking $100+ for his wine it is Alfred Tesseron. At that price level, though, it is out of my range. If I buy any Pontet-Canet I might buy one bottle just to have in my cellar for a special BWE occasion.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:17 am

I was just looking at the Pop's Wines statement on 2009 futures, seems like a voice of reason to me....

Our Position on 2009 Bordeaux
May, 2010

The 2009 Bordeaux vintage is shaping up as a "must have" vintage. Most are saying on par, or better than 2000 & 2005.

Our primary supplier for Bordeaux was The Chateau & Estates Wine Company, originally a part of Seagram's, and now a part of the Diageo conglomerate. We have enjoyed a 30+ year relationship with Chateau & Estates, and sadly that is coming to an end as they are exiting the Bordeaux wine market. Great people, financially sound and we paid them AFTER we received the wine.

The vast majority of Bordeaux futures relies on the payment of money up front for delivery a couple years down the road. Make no mistake, there are many brokers/importers that have been/are extremely reliable. However the idea of handing over literally millions of dollars of money that does not belong to us and then sitting and hoping that we'll see the wines is, in my opinion, an unacceptable risk. "It's worse than being a cat's tail in a room full of rocking chairs!"

Having just been through the most challenging economic times that most of us will ever see in our lifetimes, we will not pay for any wine until we receive that wine. If this keeps us out of the 2009 Bordeaux arena, we can exit that arena knowing that no customer has ever lost any money dealing with Pop's, and they never will!

We will, however, seek out suppliers that are willing to accept an LC, (Letter of Credit). An LC will allow us to enter the Bordeaux marketplace with a financial instrument backed by our bank, HSBC USA. That guarantees payment upon delivery of our wines. We will offer 2009 Bordeaux only under those circumstances,

Please feel free to advise us of your interests. There will be no obligation, and there will be no charge to your credit card. If we secure the wines, and we fund a letter of credit, only then will we ask for payment.

Nick Poulos
President

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:08 am

I bought the 2003 Pontet-Canet for $44 from PJ's (who stood by their price, which many stores might not have done), AFTER Parker's final in-bottle score of 95 points, it's highest rating EVER at the time by 3 points (except for the '61).

I'm sorry, Lord Tesseron (a great guy, by the way) can kiss my A$$! If he can get >$100/bottle, good for him, but I've spent my last dollar on these greedy bastards. Bordeaux is dead, RIP.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:10 am

Blanquito wrote:Zachy's just sent out a notice on 2009 futures. Some insane prices! St Pierre for $75!? La Lagune for $55! Rausan Segla for $95! Talbot for $57!

A sad day, indeed. I just bought some '88 Rausan Segla (a wine I love) for $75, with perfect provenance. Geez!

i was hoping La Lagune might come in for less. That's a bit more than I paid for the 05 and I doubt the 09 is the 05.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:32 am

My resolve has returned. Barde-Haut might be a decent buy at $34, and accessible early on according to RP, but I don't buy Bordeaux for "accessible early on" and I don't really need it. As to the rest of them - La Lagune at $53? Another one bites the dust. My hand's keeping my wallet snugly in my pocket as I watch with delight as the parade passes by.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:28 am

My '06 La Lagune just came in at $38. My price on the '09 is $59.20. I'll pass.