Lagrange: The next Pontet-Canet / Duhart-Milon?

[JimHow]

Because we are Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts, of course, we see things other people don't see, and we usually see them earlier than anyone else.

Thus, we knew before the rest of the world that, beginning in 1994, Pontet-Canet has been consistently producing wines at or near first growth quality. Now, sadly, the rest of the world has found out our secret, and Pontet-Canet, in its tissue paper and fancy glass bottles, is fetching upwards of $150.

Likewise, about a decade before they started referring to it as "Lafite Rothschild's Duhart Milon," we at BWE knew that Duhart Milon has been performing at very high levels. Now, sadly, all bottles of Duhart are being shipped to China.

What will be the next BWE wine that the wine world will think they have "discovered" but which we have known all along has been flying under the radar? I say Chateau Lagrange has been one of the consistently great performers for at least twenty years now. We used to have this guy around here who went by the name "Setab" who was as obsessed about the 1990 Lagrange as I have been with the '89 Lynch. The other night, when I drank the 2000 Lagrange, I was just really impressed by how seamless that wine was, just perfect St. Julien balance of power and elegance, Ducru-like but at a third of the price. We had the pleasure of dining with Marcel Ducasse, the former winemaker at Chateau Lagrange, a few years back. This estate just never seems to disappoint... ever. And it is still priced at approachable levels (the 2009 is $55 at PJs)... for now, any way, until the rest of the world finds out about our little secret....

[Blanquito]

I agree, Jim. Lagrange offers something for everyone.

I think an important aspect of its under-the-radar-ness is that HWSRNL consistently under-estimates this Chateau, which is fine by me.

For example, he rates the 1996 only 90 points. I've had that wine 3-4 times, and I consistently give it between 93-95 points and it still has room to improve. Similarly, he rates the 2000 "only" 93 points, which although a very good score, I think will ultimately prove a point or two too low. He rates the 2005 91 points, again too low. Et cetera.

Pointing out spreads of 2-4 points may seem silly, but as we know, such scoring differences have a huge impact on pricing.

[JimHow]

It's so funny you mention that about the 2000, Patrick, I was just thinking to myself that I really should have rated that 2000 at 95 points. It was that good. I just really, really liked it, it was what I really look for in great Bordeaux. But we are so programmed by the scores of HWSRN, I think that's why I gave it "only" 93 points....

[Ramon_NYC]

i'm probably/likely in the minority here. Somehow, I found the 2000/2003/2005 Lagarange (the one from St. Julien) that I tasted, NOT to be in the same league as the step-up qualities that Pontet Canet has shown in the same vintages. Much unlike Pontet Canet which, in this decade and including the 1994 and the 1996 vintages, really strutted it's stuff and, justifiably or unjustifiably, paralleled the documented price increases. Somehow, my opinion remains that Lagrange is not in the same league as PC to , justifiably or unjustifiably, merit similar adulations. Just too much inconsistencies in Lagrange, lately.

[William P]

I agree with Ramon that Lagrange is not at the quality level of Pontet-Canet. Nor does it have the price that PC has. I've found Lagrange since 1996 to be a great qpr.

[Blanquito]

Well, it would be hard to argue (in the last 7 vintages at least) Lagrange is in the same league as Pontet-Canet, I agree. But I think the '96 and '00 Lagrange are as good as PC in those years, just in a style more akin to it's appellation. The 2002 Lagrange could be better the the 02 PC. Since 2003, Lagrange hasn't been in top form (although I think the 2005 is much better than rated) while PC has been on fire. Some would note that PC sold it's soul to become a parkerized darling-- I won't go that far, but let me say that I'm glad the style at Lagrange hasn't changed and consequently it can still be bought for $35-$50!!!

[Comte Flaneur]

FWIW I agree with Jim and Paddy that Lagrange is good QPR, but also agree with Ramon that maybe it has become more inconsistent. IIRC the 96 ran Jim's 96 LLC very close, but the batch of 96s I bought after that were faulty and had to be returned. Outstanding Lagranges I have tried also include 1985, 1986, 1990, 1995, 2002 and 2005. But the 2003 is a disaster, and I got rid of my case, while I was underwhelmed by 2004 and 2006. Maybe Branaire Ducru is a more consistent wine and a better candidate to follow in the footsteps of Pontet-Canet? Anyway WTF. BTW who or what is HWSRN? Are we talking about the Three Hundred Pound Monster From Monkton (THPMFM)?

[JimHow]

Indeed, Comte, He Who Shall Remain Nameless hails from Monkton, Maryland....

[rjsussex]

I think the 04 and 06 Lagrange are both winners and great value - and I suspect the 04 is very close in quality to the PC 04 (the only vintage in which I have both wines - but I haven't compared them. Perhaps this thread is an excuse to do just that).

You will expect me to say this: perhaps an ever better candidate for BWE under-the-radar top quality value is (Parker's enemy) Durfort Vivens.

Richard

[JonoB]

Nah! Not Lagrange... It's owned by Suntory. The Chinese will never buy it...
And Suntory have their own Tomi Rouge from Yamanashi, Japan made to the same style that is even more expensive that gets Japanese taste buds going, meaning that the speculators won't get hold of it and we can keep it to ourselves. I would say that it will be D'armailhac and Clerc Milon, with their Rothschild connections that are next.

It is global wine speculation that is pushin prices. Not because anyway new has discovered anything. They'd have to ask us what is good first anyway, because they are just starting out.

[Blanquito]

What's happened to Duhart Milon is pretty breath-taking. That wine was $25-$30 forever, and then boom, it's $70 (alright, the 2005 was $43, but everyone said those prices were a one-off). Even back-vintages of Duhart like the 2002 are $70 now.

At least wines like Branaire crept up vintage by vintage.

[Tom In DC]

I don't get the racial overtones. Lagrange was a well known underachiever before the Suntory purchase in the early 1980's. It's certainly only a matter of time before the Chinese decide they can upgrade some other underperforming classified growth.

[JonoB]

Never said that it got better with Suntory Tom, in fact I think quality dropped for a few years shortly afterwards. And then came back up.

Because its owned by the Japanese, the Chinese won't buy it (and that is purely to do with petty nationalism on the Chinese governments part) nothing to do with race... they are after all both Mongoloids. The Chinese have an obsession with the Rothschilds mainly Lafite, a bit of Mouton now. The obvious ones to go crazy price-wise are Clerc Milon, and D'Armailhac. However, I could be wrong. Speculation regarding what the Chinese drink is the main driver behind prices. Somehow I doubt Lagrange is on their radar...YET. It is popular in Japan however.

[JEP_62]

I think the comment was made because Suntory is a Japanese company and China may still hold some resentment towards Japan because of their prior aggressive behavior.

Andy