Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Stock markets down five percent today...

But the 2005 Carruades de Lafite (WA89) is holding firm at $268 at Zachy's (regular price $335).

Heck Jim, you don't think of wine as an asset. Buy them or not. Probably good wine. For around $28 per now-a-days how can you go wrong?

Jim,
Regularly $US335??? That's about $A500.
this wine is much cheaper here - I can get it for less than half that.
Normally, wines in Aust are twice the $US price (noting the exchange rate variaiton) but why has this wine becvome so expensive??
I have some 2000 Carrudes, but couldn't be bothered otherwise. Why not get a Pichon, LLC, Cos, etc at the same price?? Side by side, the Duhart is just as good as the Carrudes to my palate and a fraction of the price now.

And if you are a points buyer, 89 WA points is hardly a big deal.

Lucie is getting used to days when we lose 25% of my annual salary. That is scary.

stefan

Yes, I wouldn't even pay $28 for that mediocrity, let alone $268.
That last bottle of 2000 Carruades I had a few months back was a notch above swill.
There's going to be a crash. It is going to be a big one. I wonder what will be the impact on Harry's 2007 CdPs?

JIm,
If that's the case, I may send off my 00 Carruades to auction.
It is going for about $A180 to $200, but at the moment, isn't moving in a big hurry.
I've seen it for sale at retail level at about $220 and the bottles had dust on them.

Mark, SteveH and I posted consistent notes on the old BWE, the 2000 Carruades is swill. I have never sold a bottle of wine in my life but if I ever did it would be this. The prices of Carruades over here in the U.S. have been criminal.

There is a guy called Paulson - not Hank, he has $700m in the bank so why does he give a monkey's about the credit crunch? - but John, who is even richer, and made $1.5bn last year shorting sub prime.

If we could set up our own wine hedge fund and short Carruades 2000 (and probably 2005 but not tried it) this is the short sub prime trade of the wine world.

Give it time. And how much volume gets done at $267 a bottle? That is a Wile Coyote price. I know there are a lot of well heeled punters in and around Scarsdale but they are not that stupid. Long Lalande Borie 2000/02, short Swill de Lafite.

Long Lalande Borie 2000/02, short Swill de Lafite.

Watching a guy on TV right now talking about how the U.S. economic system-- and thus the world economic system-- came within a hair of complete and utter collapse and meltdown, when there was a late-morning run on money market funds-- I mean, like back to the Stone Age stuff, here-- after Lehman Brothers was allowed to fail.

But... like cockroaches in nuclear winter, Carruades survives in the face of world economic apocalypse....

It may be as we had discussed, the confussion between Carruades and the Grand Vin Lafite, as is the La Fort with the Grand Vin Latour in Asia that is driving the upward price.

The only Carraudes I have really enjoyed was the 96, I've one left, wonder if it would fetch $1,000 in Hong Kong.

The 2005 Carruades is sitting at $72.99 locally. That's probably the "release" price and anything more is merchant opportunism.

BT

I think the price of 2005 Carruades will be a baramoter, a canary-in-a-coal-mine indicator of world financial health. If the price goes under $73, we will officially be in a depression.

Just got at email yesterday from The Chicago Wine Company with a listing of 2004-2006 Bordeaux. Among the items was this:

2005 Carruades de Lafite, Pauillac (1.5L) Reg: $399.50, Now: $240.00

A veritable bargain compared to NYC pricing!

Jon

My head is still spinning and I'm jet lagged. Just home after nearly a month in the far east.

Yes, the 2000 Carruades is selling at restaurants in China for a little under a grand a pop! Just as I speculated last summer when I sold my three cases, the wine is being sold as; "Chateau Lafite." They are screwing each other right and left when there's just enough knowledge to be dangerous. There are also millions of forged Bordeaux 1st Growth bottles everywhere. The labels are magnificently counterfeited. If I were a Bordeaux chateau owner I'd be furious.

Steve

JimHow wrote:Yes, I wouldn't even pay $28 for that mediocrity, let alone $268.
That last bottle of 2000 Carruades I had a few months back was a notch above swill.
There's going to be a crash. It is going to be a big one. I wonder what will be the impact on Harry's 2007 CdPs?

This about the 2005?

Carruades 2005 is plonk?

Odd.

No wonder the First Growth is less than Margaux...honestly, a shocker.

But I have been partial to Margaux (region) since I tasted a 1994 d'Issan. The aromatics blew me away.

And 1994 supposed sucked.

That was the 2000 Carruades I was talking about, Alch, i can't afford the $350 Carruades '05!
The '00 Carruades is really thin as I recall, a sub-$20 supermarket wine at best. I think SteveH had a similar experience with the plonk.

Ah.

I haven't been dissappointed with the 2000's I've tried. Bought a case of the Brown, still have several left. Lovely wine.

Guess one of the reasons I am confused over some who are GaGa over the third wine of Latour. Always was shit to me.

I've had nothing but extremely positive experiences with the 2000 vintage-- it'll be fascinating to see how it matches up to the 2005s for decades to come. But that Carruades was horrible.

Had a '00 GPL last night ITNOS. It took some time to open but was excellent and had the characteristic tannin of the vintage which to me borders on sweet.

Roberto

The 2000 vintage is extremely sweet-- especially in St. Julien. Almost too much so, in some cases. But in the end the sweetness is held in check, just like with your GPL from last night.

I'm still offering GE stock @ $28/share. Of course I don't carry any inventory.

Boy this is getting ugly.
I wouldn't pay ten bucks for Carruades right now.

All this about Carraudes had me look up 96 Carraudes on Wine Seacher for the current cost. Grab your seat.........

Wine Detail
Click for their Web site
Price
See Notes

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Wine Commune - Wine Auctions CA: Berkeley. Delivery charges apply. 1996 Chateau Lafite-Rothschild Carruades de Lafite Bordeaux Blend, 1996 $100.00
AUCTION:Bottle
22-Feb-2009

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Wine Consigners, Inc. CA: Beverly Hills. Minimum order 250 USD. 30 Yr Anniversary Sale now thru Feb 6: Up to 30% ADD'L discounts. Details online Bordeaux 1996 CARRUADES DE LAFITE PAUILLAC (Lafite's 2nd), 1996 $190.00
Bottle
22-Feb-2009

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Woodland Hills Wine Co. CA: Woodland Hills. No minimum order Shipping estimator on website Lafite Rothschild Carruades de Lafite Pauillac 1996, 1996 $199.99
Bottle
22-Feb-2009

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La Cave Warehouse TX: Dallas. No minimum order. 10 to 15% discount by the case on current releases only. Delivery charges apply. Carruades de Lafite Pauillac, 1996 $229.00
Bottle
13-Feb-2009

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Brix House Wine CA: Camarillo. No minimum order. Delivery charges apply. 1996 Carruades de Lafite, 1996 $249.00
Bottle
21-Feb-2009

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Sokolin & Co. NY: Bridgehampton. No minimum order. Delivery charges apply. Carruades De Lafite, 1996 $296.00
Bottle
22-Feb-2009

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La Cave Warehouse TX: Dallas. No minimum order. 10 to 15% discount by the case on current releases only. Delivery charges apply.
The cheapest price retail is $200.00 per btl. I paid $35 per btl two years ago. Just crazy!

Wow, Dow down to 7100....
Are we in a depression?

Okay so Zachy's says they are having a Bordeaux sale to end all sales (paraphrasing) in two weeks, let's see if they are BSing us like Sherry-Lehmann has been, or whether someone is actually acknowledging that the world economy is in the crapper and won't be coming out anytime soon.

Roberto,

I spotted two 375s of the 2000 GPL in Zachys basement a couple of months back. I bought them and tried one, it never opened. Even the next day it seemed disjointed. I'll hold the other for a couple of years. I did like it when it was first released, perhaps my 375 was in a dumb phase.

Jim,

This is an in house email I got this weekend.

"Ladies and Gentlemen:

We will be running a TWO DAY ONLY SALE in a couple of weeks…Friday 3/13 & Saturday 3/14 to be exact.

The Sale is…25% OFF ALL IN-STOCK RED & WHITE BORDEAUX."

This Wed. NY Times ad will feature more on this I believe.

I did say I favored some of the 06 Bordeaux a Left Bank Vintage that you would love at certain estates Jim. Problem is Zachys and other U.S. buyers, bought them when the dollar was at its' weakest against the Euro, they had no choice. d'Issan 06 is quite tasty and not a bad price at $45.00. per btl. I loved 06 Pontet Canet, ($80.00), Lagrange, Lynch, La Lagune, Branaire Ducru and a couple of others. I don't know the prices of them but they would be good to have in the cellar at the lowest price via "WineSearcher" Pro version. These 06 Bordeaux are "Old School Classic" for the most part, with deep black fruits in the Cassis profiles, Fully ripe, not sweet, built for twenty years plus aging.

I'd still buy 05 Grand Mayne, it's no longer $35.00 the price Zachys was selling it for a year ago (I paid the same price as customers, do to the sale at the time). Five or six stores on Wine Seacher list it at $45-$50 per btl. I tasted/drank it a month ago at the UDG Bordeaux 05/06 tasting. It is succulent with ripe cherry flavors, excellent acidity on a solid frame. I'd buy another case if I could get it at $35 again. Problem is our buyer told us its selling at twice that price in Europe right now.

PD

Boy that whole weak dollar issue is going to be a problem for French wine sellers/buyers, PappaDoc, especially for these vintages like '06 that were purchased when the Dow was over 14,000. What's going to happen with all this over-priced wine with the Dow at 6,763? I just got an email from Premier Cru with all of their overpriced 2006 futures. No thanks, not interested.

The '06 Cantemerle (RMP90) for $25 and '06 Duhart Milon (RMP92) for $42 at Zachy's are interesting but I'm just not going to pull the trigger in this economy. My brother Tom, who is 49 with two young children, has been working at a paper mill most of his adult life, been making good money, and they're laying off for two weeks. I couldn't believe the thickness of this week's Sunday New York Times, it was about a tenth of the size it used to be.

Who is taking bets that the price of 2005 Carruades will "crash" to under $100 by May Day?

I was offered 05 Barde Haute for $25 if you buy a case today via a "private" email from a major retailer. anyone tried this?

Jay,

Would that be Wine Library in NJ? $25 per btl is below wholesale price. Look it up on Wine Seacher. Most stores are selling it at $50 per btl. The vineyard is right next to Troplong Mondot.

Sounds too good to be true, Jay. If you trust the retailer, and a case is more than you want, I'll go halves with you.

Tastes like Brigitte Bardot. Buy-buy-buy!

http://bordeauxwine.org/bwe/new/9/151299/

Make sure it's the Barde Haut, not the Barde Haute. I think Steve saw that in Hong Kong, didn't you Steve?

Got an email today from the once proud Sherry-Lehmann....

I thought it presented a microcosm of the United states financial disaster. The phony house of cards is crumbling. All the financial gimmicks, all the high credit card debt, all the sub-prime mortgages, and phony schemes like derivatives and hedge funds and Ponzi-schemes and multi-million dollar bonuses for executives of taxpayer-subsidized companies that are now less worth than a buck, all the financial phoniness is coming home to roost.

And in the world of fine wine, "august" Madison Avenue wine institutions like Sherry-Lehmann are announcing "A HISTORIC OFFER" to "preferred customers...."

What are we being offered?

Petrus?

Lafite?

Leoville Las Cases??

No.

We are being offered, at twenty bucks a pop, something called Chateau Lamothe, Haut Medoc.... And if you buy a case they'll throw in a MAGNUM of 2003 Chateau Lamothe....

"Historic" indeed!

I'm so glad to be one of the "preferred" customers to be offered such a great deal.

Unfortunately, I think I will pass on the "historic" oferring of that legendary, Haut Medoc, Chateau Lamothe....

Conservatively-run establishments will probably be discounting their lower-priced inventory. Only overextended joints will blow out the cherished stuff in desparation. Still, unless Berananke has some trick up his sleeve, even the good stuff will succumb. With Citi at one, and GE at seven, it seems only a matter of time before IBM is at 40. Then the Dow will be at oh, 4000 (I think we may undershoot to about 50% of fair value), and we can look forward to a 1990s Japan decade. Not that that's a bad thing. I was there a few years ago and they seem to have everything we have, only in a lot less space.

very difficult to watch the news this evening

Dang, I think I missed the bottom in Carruades. Anyone know what was the low print?

Hound, cheer up, starting tomorrow you'll be able to steal the 2005 Carruades (RMP89) for a mere $269.00 at the Zachy's "sale of a lifetime".

All this silliness made me look on Wine Searcher. While there are 3 stores in the US offering this at $109-$126 (as if that's a deal!?!), indeed there are about 9 US listings at $250 or more per bottle. Hard to believe the 2.5x price differential. Do you think they are actually selling at that price? Is there really that much of a market of unknowing consumers who think this is the real Lafite?