TN: Little BXs, an 07 CNDP and an un-03 03BX!

[JonoB]

Popped into a shop where you can taste many of the wines on offer in Tokyo... Here goes.

2005 chateau senejac; HM CB:dusty earthy, plum, cassis, gooseberry, damsons, tight, structured needs time but has a herby shallow finish, probably will be good in time... ****+

2006 Chateau de Sales: Pom: fresh, crisp, plump and round, open enough to be appealing, but grippy, herby, cassis, warm, more caressing and not so crunchy but loveable. ****(*+?)

2005 Chateau Picque Caillou; Pessac: crisp, tobacco leaf, herbs, cedar, minty, appealing and not overdone... Almost approachable now. *****+

2004 Larose de Gruaud: St-Julien: funky, mineral, shitty, St. Julien, animals, fur, plum, herbs, elegant but perhaps without either crunchiness or stuffing. ****+

2005 Lalande-Borie: st. J: more structured and closed, cassis, minerals, iron, leather, much tougher drinkable but in a very different style. ***(**+?)

2005 Chateau Gloria: St. Julien: earth, shit, funky but clean and fresh, cassis, coffee, kernel, bigger and sturdier, certainly a step up in structure but not necessarily more enjoyable! ****(*+) pedigree and balanced acid is there. A bit too much wood. 

2007 CNDP Vieux Telegraphe: big rich and berried, damsons, plums, fruit filled nose, ripe, perhaps too ripe, dusty and earthy but with a touch of alcohol that makes it tough to deal with... There is some acid that keeps it from being sickly but this just doesn't have the depth and elegance that you expect of this wine. Open and ready to go but this could be Barossan!! The nose is appealing and slightly herby... It does have some depth and a dark fruit/kernel underbelly, but the sweetness is off-putting and the finish short (although I will put this down to youth as oppose to the wine to be kind). The legs just don't want to fade away... There is something distinctly unpleasant in this wine and I only hope that it dissipates or integrates... It does carry the alcohol well but it needs to... More palatable at this stage than the Charvin but the Charvin gave me some hope at least for the future. At this age I found the 05 and 06 to be lovely elegant and spritely. This is far from that... **(**+?) [4+3+2+2=11/20]

2003 La Mission Haut Brion; Pessac: tobacco, cassis, round, ripe nose, cedar, herbs, weighty but actually not too bad... Dusty earthy tannins, soil, sandy notes, the mineral charactar isn't shining through but it is a well made wine and unlike some 03s feels like Bordeaux, albeit from a hot vintage... Structured although it will probably dry out as oppose to growing old gracefully... A nice freshness, with a herbal, minty lift, certainly has depth with a woodsy, leafy, herbal finish. I like this but probably because it doesn't feel like an 03 but like a big, bold but still elegant Bordeaux! ****(**[+?]) [4+4+3.5+4=15.5/20]

Apologies about the Acronyms and grammar... These are all on my iPhone and not my notebook.

[Houndsong]

I rate these TNs *** +/-(**?). Whatever that means.

[JonoB]

I rate these TNs *** +/-(**?). Whatever that means.

[Nicklasss]

The 2005 gloria has been review as ''one of the best Gloria'' by the Revue de Vin de France (or 18/20).

Nic

[JonoB]

Nicklass,

I was a very good wine but I didn't enjoy it as much as the others. That could be to do with the style which is classically modern (if that makes any sense; ie Parkerised but not overblown. So good) or simply because it needs more time. It will certainly outstrip the others in quality but would I pick that over the others based on this tasting... I'd have the de Sales or the Pessac on these showings.

[stefan]

De Sales, almost always a good value, sounds even better in '06 than it is usually. Thanks for the tip.

[Blanquito]

Parker recently stated unequivocally that 2007 is the greatest Chateauneuf and southern Rhone vintage of all time.

Yet, my experience with a 6-8 2007s (all of the highly rated by the Bob) left me cold and dubious, much like your experience with the 2007 VT, Jonathan. Over-ripe, overly alcoholic, occasionally cloying, etc.

Maybe these 2007 will round into epic form, but I just expected more from the greatest vintage of all time!

I knew Parker was a lover of slutty, ripe, over the top wines, but I think 2007 CDP might take the cake.

Have others had enough 2007s to chime in?

[Rick]

We tried a number of top 07 CDPs at BWE2010 in Chicago at the Capital Grille on Friday night - every single one was excellent and deserving of high scores. We also worked hard with staff to prepare the wines properly for us.

May be a palate diiference but I continue to tap into the 07s and have yet to have a bad one

I have found the VT to be elegant and complex and very drinkable

Though I have to say after drinking the CdPs , while enjoying the variety I do keep thinking I should just buy Bordeaux so i am better to follow our BD with his rants , I mean, expert commentary on 02s

rick

[HarryKaris]

First, I think you really need a good and solid CdP (Rhone) reference before being able to judge them right..... It all comes down to the pleasurability of a wine.....I had ALL Bordeaux wines in the past.....the pleasure I find in CdP's I never experienced in Bordeaux or any other wine region......

CdP-Harry

[Blanquito]

Harry,

I've have been regularly drinking CDP since 1995 and I have enjoyed older vintages than that as well. More importantly, I really like CDP (although not as much as Bordeaux), so I think it fair to say that my issue is with the 2007 vintage, not Chateauneuf. My reference CDP estates are (amongst others) Vieux Donjon and Clos du Mont Olivet, as they combine a classicism with affordability... but I didn't really like them in 2007. Too sweet, too rich for my tastes. I much preferred the 2005 vintage from those estates.

It's strange, because I've liked other "ripe" CDP vintages like 2000 and even many of the 2003s that Parker recommended were delightful. So perhaps I'm just drinking the 2007s too young.

A friend of mine, Jeb Dunnuck of the Rhone Report, understands my perspective on the 2007 southern Rhone, even though he loves the big, sweet richness of that vintage. I guess I just don't find wines so sweet and lush "pleasurable".

Patrick

[aimeedogdogdog]

Indeed, Harry. Mature Rhones could be very sexy and just pure enjoyment, more so than even burgundy! I had some mature rhone wines more than 10 years ago and they were just pure sex. A reference point so far.

Patrick,

Maybe you could try the less so classified 2007 rhones? From the past, I had expereince and actually preferred the little brothers way more than the big ones (BIG in everything as you described in 2007 rhones). You might as well like them better too...

Werner

[JonoB]

Been drinking all sorts of all regions and for me the 07s are just TOO Big... I don't mind big wines but there was something icky about the VT and Charvin... When they first arrived on te shelves, I found them to be big and needing time, the problem for me is the lack of depth and cloying nature which I don't think is to do with youth, but more a pack of balance.

At the same age, 05 and 06 showed far more potential to be stunning and slurry in time. Who knows, they may come good but I couldn't find depth, poise or precision... 07 is probably a CdR vintage really because those vines need thr heat.

I think that in the Rhone, 00 and 03 were not atypically hot for the region unlike in kthrr parts of the world, but whilst everyone was having a cool 07, Southern Rhone was having an atypically hot year... If I want that sort of wine but picked early and with frwhness and lift, I'll buy the 08 La Ciornia from La Violetta in western Australia.

[DavidG]

I don't get cloying from the '07s CdP but a lot of people do. I do get tons of ripe fruit with enough balancing acidity and tannin to make the wines outstanding, now if you like 'em young, and in 10-20 years if you like 'em with age. think it's a palate preference/tolerance for that style.

Having said that, Jono's note on the '07 VT doesn't sound anything like the bottle I tasted. Perhaps there was a problem with the bottle, or the objectionable sweetess just stuck out that much more in comparison to the other wines being tasted at the time.

[stefan]

In our family there is a divergence of opinion: Judd loves them; stefanJr hates them and all other Rhones, and I say judge them in 10 years (unless you drink them over pancakes). The women shake their heads and collectively say that they are OK, but why bother when there is so much good Burgundy and Bordeaux?

[JonoB]

David, absolutely nothing wrong with the bottle, and I rinced my mouth after the little Bx, tasted the 07 C9 on it's own and then moved onto the LMHB... There was categorically nothing wrong with the bottle and there were no faults.

I probably is a stylistic thing, but then I heard reports that Gary Vaynerchuck, whose palate I really don't agree with is also now very dissappointed with how the wines are performing despite looking good from barrel. And as I always say, a barrel sample is never a great representation of a wine, the bottle is... I've had a number of different 07 C9s in isolation recently, and they have all had this issue. I liked the 07e originally, but I think it was seriously overhyped in retrospect... But time will tell. Although I agree it could be a palate thing, I think with 07 it might be a bit deeper than that as a lot of Neuf freaks on this side of the pond and critics/merchants are starting to get itchy fingers... One even said Coudoulet was a mess and he loves Coudoulet (buys it every vintage regardless of quality).