Alice Feiring on Bordeaux

[Bacchus]

Some interesting reading, perhaps. Something to comment on:

http://www.alicefeiring.com/files/d10_b ... p40-44.pdf

[RDD]

I couldn't quit figure out her point. The article seemed muddled with a distinct lack of focus and any clear direction.
It seemed to insinuate that only those few people using what they consider to be "proper" methods are making "proper" wines.
Some of the statements are just rediculous.

For instance 200% new oak is a term coined by Dominique Laurant to describe his treatment of Burgundys. Fermentation of the wine in new oak and elevage of the wine in new oak. I've never heard it used in the context of Bordeaux and don't see how it can apply since Bordeaux is not fermented in oak barrels.
Perhaps she is referring to 'vin-de-garagistes'. And if so, that's not really Bordeaux but rather some experiments.
There are some other dandy statements as well.

Provinage - A great way to end up with phylloxera.

The property "whose life in that vineyard seems eclipse ..... Clinet"
Fine. But I'll quarantee the wine in the bottle from Clinet will eclipse whatever that underpeforming property has produced. Maybe they should use a proper balance of technology ?

Pascaline Lepeltier, a French sommelier
working at New York’s Rouge Tomate, is
quick to explain, “It is an obligation to taste
Médoc, but I have more curiosity for the
Right Bank—because at least there you can
find terroir.”

What? There's no terroir on the Left Bank?

I had come to the region resolved
to find that side of Bordeaux—not
the technical wines, but Bordeaux that
would steal my heart.

Drink some Haut Brion for God's sake. Or Angelus. Or .........

I mentioned that I was attracted to the
Puy, but needed something less expensive.
M. Gelin suggested the 2005 Château Amede Musset, a half bottle of Pomerol for 45
euros.

It is a Lalande-de-Pomerol. Not a Pomerol. Get the facts correct at least.


A good laugh.



The author must be trying to get this years Suckling award.

[AlexR]

I'd comment except that I can't get the link to work.

But, reading the exerpts, it sounds pretty ignorant, so maybe I shouldn't read it after all....

Bestr regards,
Alex R.

[RDD]

Here's some fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDTQHya7 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wuqj4Br ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfzTm9VXSO8&NR=1

I really like wines without sulphur. They last about a week before they go bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax6OHIea ... re=related

I can't take this stuff as serious.

The hipsters have landed..........

[jal]

She certainly has strong opinions. I liked her book "The Battle for Wine and Love: or How I Saved the World from Parkerization", I can't say I subscribe to all her ideas but I do admire her passion. My problem with her is that like all folks convinced in the righteousness of their opinions, she dismisses everyone else's ideas.

[RDD]

Jacques:
I love passion too. But I really like it when it is well reasoned.
I haven't read her book but most of her statements in the article are silly.
In particular I love her tasting when she states she likes the wine because it has no fruit. WTF?
Drink water.
Anyway, I'm not a fan.

[Bacchus]

Wow, I didn't realize this tidbit would get people going -- lots of fun though. I've read a little more of her blog and it's clear she's got a couple of different agendas: 1) she want's wine that she thinks reflects/contains terroir; 2) she doesn't like the "international style" or "fruity" wines; 3) she believes in the biodynamic/green/natural approach to making wine. She wants wines that aren't "manipulated" and that don't have any additives, etc etc etc. The problem is, these goals, which aren't always compatible, get all twisted around in her writings, which, I think, results in that lack of focus RDD commented on. It is odd that she doesn't care for fruit in her wine -- in one blog she says she wants her wines to be acerbic! Balsamic vinegar anyone?! And if it's an inexpensive left bank bottle of terroir she wants, how about Dom. de Chevalier. I always find it good and gravely. Perhaps they add sulphur to their wines, which would otherwise disqualify it. Hey, what about P-C. They've gone pretty well all "natural" haven't they?

Like Jacques, I think she's convinced of her own righteousness on these matters, and so it's no longer a matter of discussing wine with others, but trying to convert them to her own point of view.

[RDD]

Well I'm sick with a slight fever so maybe I'm over reacting.
I just get tired of the line of reasoning that a nice well endowed wine has to have been made to please Parker.
Surely a lot of 1982's fall in that category. Before there was any Parker reputation.
Also I think science can be applied in a intelligent fashion.
For instance the glass lined vats at Haut Brion.

[dstgolf]

Rob,

Is it science or is there a little voodoo majic in winemaking? As you travel around Bordeaux Right and Left bank you see and taste great wines. Glass lined thermoregulated stainless fermentation vats at Haut Brion. Wood vats with no temperature control at Margaux,Wood vats with computer thermorgulation at Malarctic-Lagraviere,cement vats at lEglise Clinet and a mixture of cement and fibreglass vats at Pavie Macquin. All great wines but what has the final product got to do with science and how much is it alchemy? How much terroir? How much Voodoo?? Don't know but sure know what I like and it's not these new wave grape bazooka bubble gum wines been produced not just in Bordeaux but many areas around the world. Just waiting in my lifetime to see when the pendulum swings back to midline.

Danny

[RDD]

Danny:
My point exactly. It is both. A proper blend of each. Nature is voodoo and science is man's feeble attempt to reign it in.
But none of us would be drinking good ageable wines if the Dutch match had not been invented.
And plonk is plonk. I've had "unmanipulated" biodynamic plonk and space age replicated blonk. They are both bad.

[DavidG]

Alice Fearing appears to revel in stirring the pot. A number of internet sites have had multipage threads over the years devoted to debating her writings. My view is pretty similar to Rob's, and I'm not running a fever. I'm fine with liking certain styles of wines, for whatever reason, and some of her preferences and reasons seem OK, but at the root of things she seems to be wedded to some sort of circular reasoning and denigrating anyone who disagrees with her. Her message might get across better if her writing style were less abrasive.

[Chasse-Spleen]

I met Alice Feiring at a "natural wine" party, thrown by a distributor. She was a little on the pretentious side, a little bit of a winer. The likes of poor Chasse weren't good enough for her. Boo-hoo! Actually, she was a little bit dried out. Not much fruit left, if you know what I mean.

-Chasse

[Blanquito]

How's the wine critic business, Chris?

[Bacchus]

I couldn't help but laugh at Chasse's comment: Feiring, the would be wine critic, is a winer!!!

I like a variety of styles. Today I've had a couple of glasses of the '04 Cos d'estournel and a couple of glasses of the '00 Oliver's Taranga HJ Reserve Shiraz. I'm sure we all have a sense of the Cos -- it was great with dinner. And as expected, the Oliver's was a big, aussie shiraz with lot's of leather, liquorice, blue and black berries, black cherries, and a lot sweeter than the Cos. The Oliver's points up the tobacco, tea leaves and cedar that are in the Cos, and lacking in itself. I wouldn't recommend the Oliver's with dinner, however. But it was good on it's own as a cocktail.

[Chasse-Spleen]

I have to admit, I'm a terrible wine critic. Not really a critic at all, but someone who can write a little bit and drinks too much. Alice Feiring is actually a pretty serious wine writer, having written several well received books. Her website is also pretty highly regarded. Unfortunately, the wine business at large is not as friendly and welcoming as BWE (appart from the initiation rite of drinking a 2005 Sociando Mallet 750 in less than an hour without any food). It's highly competitive and sometimes a trifle snobbish, especially in downtown Manhattan. However I do have a project in the works that may come to fruition and if so will be very cool and I'm sure you will all get a laugh out of it on a certain level. That's all I can say for now.

[JimHow]

"...apart from the initiation rite of drinking a 2005 Sociando Mallet 750 in less than an hour without any food."

Hmm, I like that. I think we need to implement a BWE hazing initiation requirement... Fifty spanks from the BD while sipping on the Lynch Bages vintage of your choice and pledging your devotion to the benevolent dictator....

[JimHow]

...I realize that for some of you this would amount to pleasure rather than "punishment...." In those cases, mere gifts of Lynch Bages from the vintage(s) of your choice will suffice....

[mike reff]

I like the story about her and the Somm, she brings up decent points about biodynamic Brdx etc. Not a bad read, but I can understand why wine geeks are annoyed

[marcs]

Actually, she was a little bit dried out. Not much fruit left, if you know what I mean.

-Chasse

Hey, as long as there's enough fruit left to buffer the acidity she can stay in balance. You know, older women can have plenty of fruit left in the body even if the face looks dried out

Having checked out her web site, she looks to me like a very good writer (in that provacateur style) who doesn't have a really deep knowledge of wine. I mean, deep compared to a civilian of course but not really deep comparative knowledge of wine styles or winemaking. I mean, this article showed almost total ignorance of Bordeaux. It strikes me that wine serves more as a vehicle for her artistic/ideological/stylistic ambitions than as something she wants to learn about for its own sake. I sort of found myself wishing she'd write about something else, since I actually don't think wine as a subject can really support that level of intellectualization.

The hipster types have an interesting quandry as regards Bordeaux. From an ideological and class perspective, they'd like to just dismiss it as the province of rich douchebags with no taste, like overdone Cali Cab. I mean, bankers blowing ten grand at restaurants on way-too-young bottles of first growth just because they can, glossy chateaux owned by international corporations turning out hundreds of thousands of bottles, reverse osmosis machines...it's everything they hate. But you can't very well just say "Bordeaux sucks!", because that would be stupid. So they make all these vague gestures and say it's just irrelevant, not cool, man.

[marcs]

Alice Feiring is actually a pretty serious wine writer, having written several well received books. Her website is also pretty highly regarded.

To get a sense of the material rewards you get from being a serious and well regarded wine writer...from her latest blog post:

Consider your red headed blogger here; while I dream of the days when I can buy @ Chambers without looking at price tags, (even though every bottle of wine I buy is tax deductible), most of what I spend is in the price category Robin Goldstein addresses in his The Wine Trials, 175 wines under $15 with an occasional stretch to under $20, and a few times a year splurge to under $45. If I stopped buying wine I could almost afford health insurance (not quite), but still,

No wonder she doesn't have a deep knowledge of Bordeaux, it's flat-out financially prohibitive for a writer to drink much good Bdx these days.

[jal]

She does know Bordeaux and a lot of other wine regions. She also knows what she likes and is opinionated, fair enough, very common in the wine world. I just hate the fact that she dismisses other peoples preferences but that seems like a prevalent theme in this business (see Parker, Squires, Nossiter, Suckling, Laube, Rolland, Joly, even the character Miles in Sideways and countless others.)

As far as the fruit vs acidity argument, we have rehashed that one here countless times, one person's balanced wine is another person's fruit bomb. But after all, it's only wine and it's supposed to bring us together not drive us apart, there should be room for different tastes and opinions. Taste, drink, enjoy, discuss, do not dismiss.

[marcs]

I don't care that she dismisses other peoples' opinions. She's not really in the business of being impartial, I think it's fine when a writer is proudly opinionated and provocative. I like her writing style. The shortcoming for me is that I learned zero about Bordeaux winemaking from the article. Bordeaux was just another place to do the same tired natural winemaking quasi-tourist shtick -- look, the little local farmer and his horse vs. the big bad modern producers and their machines!

Anyone discussing styles of Bdx and the question of modernization should at least show some evidence of having tasted older vintages from before stylistic changes took place, discuss what elements of the old style are not being preserved today, and connect these changes to specific shifts in vineyard and winemaking practices. The fact that she doesn't do any of this makes me think that either she's ignorant of any of the actual details here or doesn't care about them. It's not like we're hypothesizing about ancient Roman wines here, the changes in Bdx winemaking are relatively recent.

[RDD]

Jim:
For initiation could we at least get a surrogate dictatoresse?
Jacques the peacemaker:
Happy Chanukah! And to DavidG. And anyone else I may have missed.
Marcs:
I wish I could write and convey like you do. I'm only good at numbers and cold hard Spock like logic.

And to Alice all the best even though you are totally wrong and BWE is totaly right (kidding of course).

[JimHow]

[DavidG]

But after all, it's only wine and it's supposed to bring us together not drive us apart

Jacques, you've pinpointed the source of my discomfort with her style precisely.