If the Patriots and Jets were Bordeaux wines....

[JimHow]

Let's face it... The Pats are Lafite....

[stefan]

>>
The Pats won two-thirds of their games during the time they were supposedly "cheating.". They've won three-quarters of their games since then....
>>

Maybe they have improved their cheating.

[jal]

Tripping a runner on the sidelines is disgusting behavior. It should be vehemently condemned by the organization and the rest of the coaching staff. The offender should be fired or at least suspended for a long time.

Wait, the Jets did all that.

As far as the Patriots being lily-white, just read the following:

http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/201012 ... again.html

Of course, Patriots fans will cry foul, but then again, they are fans of a team that has been convicted of cheating!

[JimHow]

Ha, ha, are Rex's "Super Bowl Champion" Jets going to even make the playoffs?

[JimHow]

I'm just giving you a hard time, Jal, I actually like Rex Ryan.

[jal]

I've been a Jets fan since I came to the US in 1982, the first football game I saw on tv was the 1983 Mud Bowl and I've been a long suffering Jets fan since. I've suffered through the 1986 fiasco (from 10-1 to 10-6), the Bill Parcells era, the Herman Edwards "blame the kicker", the Bill Belichick resignation after 24 hours on the job incident to every bad coach (Rich Kotite, Al Groh) ever hired, I've seen long term solutions (Browning Nagle?) and Super Bowl or bust solutions (Brett Favre). I can tell you that that team is cursed. I think Broadway Joe's guarantee in Superbowl III cursed the Jets for eternity.

But damn it, I hate the Patriots even more than the Giants!

And I would rather root for a losing Jets team than any other NFL team.

[Bacchus]

So, how 'bout those Saints?

[jal]

I'm just giving you a hard time, Jal, I actually like Rex Ryan.

Sorry about the rant, Jim. The Jets always find a way to make me wish I wasn't their fan. The "trip" was disgusting and shameful That stupid coach could have ended that kid's career, for heaven's sake! I'm glad the Jets dealt with it quickly, but I really also wish they had a little more dignity especially after losing. That team though is not blessed with the most poised football brains around, unfortunately. Remember that moron Gastineau cost the the Jets a trip to the 1986 AFC championship (against the Elway Broncos who went on to win that game with "the drive") by roughing Bernie Kosar with 3 minutes to play and the Jets up 20-10 on third and 24?

Bacchus, the Saints are Superbowl champions. What more do they want? Repeat? Ok, if they play anyone but the Jets in the Superbowl this year, I promise to root for them!

[stefan]

I don't know about the Jets coach, but his father was the most classless coach of all time. Remember when daddy, on the opening kickoff, sent his players to take out the opposing kicker (sic!)! Why he did not get fined by the NFL office for such a stunt is beyond me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_Bowl

[jal]

I agree Stefan, I was never a Buddy Ryan fan, he got lucky in Chicago as the defensive coordinator, but that's it.

[jal]

Pheew! This team is gonna give me an ulcer before stress and alcohol do.
J E T S!!!!
Jets
Jets
Jets

[DavidG]

Jets, feh.

Ravens.

Let's hope the Packers send those cheatin' Patriots...

... packing.

[alchemeus]

Jets, feh.

Ravens.

Let's hope the Packers send those cheatin' Patriots...

... packing.

HOORAH!

Almost David, almost.

Just got a feeling someone will during the play offs.

GO RAVENS!

[JimHow]

ah yes, the Packers almost beat the Patriots... except, well, they DIDN'T!!!

Hey Alch and Dave, at least we don't have a murderer on our team....

as for the Jets vs. Steelers, that's like the Iran-Iraq war, you wish they could both lose.

I get a kick out of Rex... His team beats the Palamalu-less Steelers on the last play of the game and all of a sudden his guys are "gutsy" and "brave" and whatever... What a drama queen... The Pats spanked both teams up and down the field and all they did afterwards was praise the opposition. How about a little humble pie, Rex, until you actually WIN something for the first time in your career...?

Ah well, cheer up, we could all be Giants fans....

[DavidG]

I was a huge Patriots and Tom Brady fan until the cheating deal surfaced. Tom Brady is a Michigan alum - I grew up watching Bo's boys kick Ohio State ass in the Big House - sadly those days are long gone.

Ray Lewis a murderer? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I know a superb criminal defense attorney from Maine who would talke you apart for that... umm, never mind. Actually he does give me the willies, but as far as I know he's been pretty good for years now at keeping kept his aggression on the field.

If the Pats and Ravens meet in the playoffs, and I think there's a pretty good chance they will, we will need to set up a little wine wager.

[JimHow]

until the cheating deal surfaced.

LOL exactly what is your understanding of the "cheating scandal," David?
Anything beyond the fact that the Pats taped a "walk-through" of a single Rams practice in 2001?
You do know that all NFL teams tape every single play of every team in every game, right?
You understand that Mangini's disclosure happened BEFORe the Pats won 16-- almost 17 straight in '07?

Hey, I know the Pats greatness is too hard to believe... If believing that they have "cheated" their way to three Super Bowls and seven division titles in the past decade helps you to cope with it, then good for you....

It is like the Oswald conspracy... A little 24 year old punk couldn't possibly have killed the god-like Kennedy... There must be more to the story....

Hey I'm a criminal defense lawyer, I believe in reasonable doubt.
I also believe OJ should have been found guilty after about four minutes of deliberation...
Have you ever studied the facts of Ray Lewis's case?

As great as the Pats are, I am predicting they are only second-most likely of the Boston teams to win a championship in 2011....

#4 most likely: Bruins
#3 Red Sox
#2 Patriots
#1 Celtics.

[DavidG]

I knew you were a great defense atty Jim...

So you don't think the Pats did anything wrong beyond taping one practice? And they were caught the first (and only) time they tried? And they gained no advantage from it? And the fines were for doing something that every team does every game? Could be, but I doubt it. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of faith in the posting Jacques linked to.

Was Ray Lewis even indicted? I know my wife (the atty in our family) was very into the case when it happened and felt he was involved. Like I said, he gives me the willies.

I really can't argue the facts here because I haven't studied them, in either the Ray Lewis or Patriots cases, beyond what I've casually read or heard. Not enough time or interest. Though I am certainly aware that media reports that make the nightly news and weekly mags are highly likely to be watered down and/or sensationalized as well as far from complete and accurate. But that's what passes for "fact" in the court of public opinion. I am happy to be educated further if you've got the time and inclination. Seriously. My mind isn't made up.

As to coping, I've got a few favorite teams and players but I don't take sports nearly seriously enough to need coping mechanisms. It's just entertainment.

[JimHow]

I'm guessing you don't have a lot of faith in the posting Jacques linked to.

No, David, I must say I don't have a whole lot of faith in an internet blog from someone, unnnamed, who goes by the the name "MC3 Sports Media," who claims that the "Patriots are cheating AGAIN...."

Is that the best you and Jacques can come up with?

I'm still waiting for evidence that they cheated even once.

Now, if you want evidence of the Jets cheating, I can produce some videotape....

Was Ray Lewis even indicted?

It has been a while, but he went to trial, did he not?

I mean, there's more evidence that Ray Lewis stabbed a guy to death than that the Patriots "cheated," don't you agree?

[JimHow]

Here is the Wikipedia section on the Ray Lewis case....

Obviously, he and his missing blood-stained white suit were not involved in the homicide.... <rolls eyes>

Following a Super Bowl XXXIV party in Atlanta on January 31, 2000, a fight broke out between Lewis and another group of people, resulting in the stabbing deaths of Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar. Eleven days after Lewis and two companions, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting, were questioned by Atlanta police, the three were indicted on murder and aggravated assault charges. The white suit Lewis was wearing the night of the killings has never been found. Prosecutors alleged that the bloodstained suit was dumped in a garbage bin outside a fast food restaurant.[25]

Lewis claimed that the prosecution knew he was not involved in the murder but chose to go ahead with the case anyway, saying "You don't care if I'm guilty or not. You gonna make sure I go to jail for life."[26]

Lewis' attorney arranged for the murder charges against Lewis to be dropped in exchange for his testimony against Oakley and Sweeting, and a guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice.[11] Lewis admitted that he gave a misleading statement to police on the morning after the killings. He was sentenced to one year of probation and was fined US$250,000 by the NFL, which was believed to be the highest fine levied against an NFL player for an infraction not involving substance abuse.[27]

Oakley and Sweeting were acquitted of the charges in June 2000.[28] No other suspects have ever been arrested for the crime.

The following year, Lewis was named Super Bowl XXXV MVP. However, the signature phrase "I'm going to Disney World!" was given instead by quarterback Trent Dilfer.

On April 29, 2004, Lewis reached a settlement with four-year-old India Lollar, born months after the death of her father Richard, preempting a scheduled civil proceeding. Lewis also reached an undisclosed settlement with Baker's family.[28]

[DavidG]

Thanks for that Jim. I don't know about comparing evidence of guilt between the two examples. It sounds to me like there was convincing evidence in both cases. Of course murder is a much bigger deal than cheating at professional football.

[JEP_62]

No, David, I must say I don't have a whole lot of faith in an internet blog from someone, unnnamed, who goes by the the name "MC3 Sports Media," who claims that the "Patriots are cheating AGAIN...."

I agree. From what I read, his only evidence is “The Patriots shredded the Jets, Steelers, Dolphins, and Bears defenses" so they must be cheating. They couldn't possibly be a good team being led by a great coach and QB. They embarrassed my Jets, so they must be cheating.


Andy

[jal]

No, David, I must say I don't have a whole lot of faith in an internet blog from someone, unnnamed, who goes by the the name "MC3 Sports Media," who claims that the "Patriots are cheating AGAIN...."

Hmmmm, he is named, his name and bio are at the end of the blog:

- Jayson Braddock

Jayson appears on Sports Radio 790 AM in Houston, TX, every Thursday morning at 11:19 am CST as the football insider on the Dylan Gwinn show. He's a graduate of the Sports Management World Wide Football GM & Scouting Course and has been mentored by former NFL player / executive John Wooten and Sporting News.com NFL Draft Expert Russ Lande. His work is mostly appreciated by die-hard fans interested in every little detail about their team and not just watered down mainstream talk. - Listeners NOT in the Houston metropolitan area can hear Jayson on iheart radio or sports7910.com.

The evidence? I guess the facts that the Patriots admitted wrongdoing is not enough...

[JimHow]

Of course, the Jets would never do anything like that....

Jets videotaped Patriots last season in FoxboroughEmail Print Comments2412 Associated Press

HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. -- The spy games between the New York Jets and New England Patriots began last season.

The Jets were caught videotaping at Gillette Stadium last season and the Patriots had that New York employee removed from the area, according to published reports Wednesday. Jets coach Eric Mangini said his team received permission to film behind both end zones during the playoff game in January.

"We taped the game is what we taped, and we taped end-zone copy of the game, and we tape a double-end zone, which is standard operating procedure for us," Mangini said Wednesday. "We request that every single road game, and it's usually granted if physically it's possible. And when people request it from us, we do the same thing: We grant it."

Mangini maintained the Jets did nothing wrong and had filmed at New England during the regular season without incident. It was nothing like what the Patriots did earlier this season, when a New England employee was caught taping New York's defensive signals and punished by the league.

"We do it every time we go on the road," Mangini repeated. "We ask for permission to do it. It's within the league rules, and when people ask us to do it, we grant it, as well."

When asked why the Patriots stopped the Jets if they had already given them permission, Mangini just shrugged.

"I don't know," he said. "Really, it just was what it was. We had asked for permission, it was granted and then that changed, and we respect their decision. It's their stadium."

Mangini was also asked if the Jets were, at all, taping the Patriots' defensive signals.

"No," Mangini said.

He was then asked if the Patriots requested similar permission to have someone taping at various angles or end-zone angles. Again, Mangini replied simply: "No."

The Jets have not asked the undefeated Patriots if they can film from the end zones this Sunday at Foxborough.

"Just didn't look to get permission," Mangini said. "Didn't think it would be granted."

New England coach Bill Belichick refused to address the situation during his news conference with Patriots reporters.

"There's a lot of things that have happened in the past," Belichick said. "Really, the past is in the past."

Patriots players were also staying away from the issue, much as they did when Pittsburgh's Anthony Smith guaranteed a victory over New England last week.

"It just doesn't matter. Who cares?" safety Rodney Harrison said. "It has no impact whatsoever, just like when Smith made his comments. It has no impact. The game isn't won or lost through the media Monday through Saturday. It's won or lost on Sunday, 1 o'clock. It's whoever makes more plays."

This is just the latest in the long-running rivalry between the teams. After helping Belichick and the Patriots win three Super Bowls as a defensive assistant, Mangini left to become coach of the Jets. The relationship between the two has been frosty since.

Things got even chillier after a Patriots video assistant was caught taping from the sidelines during their game against the Jets in Week 1, a move some speculated fueled New England's drive to perfection. The NFL punished the Patriots by taking away their first-round draft pick, fined them $250,000 and fined Belichick another $500,000.

A league rule prohibits teams from using a video camera on the sidelines for any purpose. In the Jets' case, they were filming from the end zone. The Jets film from both end zones during practice, a common procedure used by NFL teams.

"When you practice, anytime you practice, you try to shoot the unit from the sideline and then from the end zone behind them, so that you can see hand placement, fits, that type of thing," Mangini said. "That's how you watch practice every day. That's how you evaluate practice every day. And it's the same thing with games. You like to have that same copy because, really, that's just an extension of the evaluation."

Mangini was unsure how many teams have asked for similar permission from New York but said the Jets have granted it to those that have. He also said the Jets have not been turned down by any teams this season.

"It's usually just a function of whether there's a location that we can do it from or not," he said. "It's a pretty common courtesy."


Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

[JimHow]

And their sexual harassment programs are impeccable to....

They are the class of the league!

[DavidG]

Plenty of dirt all over the league. So is there a good-guy team with a chance in the playoffs?