Experiences with auctions?

[marcs]

I want to backfill my cellar and am thinking of starting to bid at some major auction houses. What has your experience been in buying auction wines? Have they shown well when you drank them? Do you notice a higher percentage of misfires? I am thinking of going from 5 to 15 years back in vintage, is this a good range or would you suggest shorter? Which are the better auction houses, or do they seem similar to you?

Thanks...I know this is a very general question but just trying to get a feel before I drop some coin!

[JEP_62]

I don't have experience with the major houses but I (and some friends) have been going to one in Boston for a couple of years. Personally, I have had good luck with the lots I've won. There was really only one lot that I've been disappointed in. They were old Cali Cabs that I knew where on the edge but the price was worth taking a chance. Unfortunately, everyone so far has been over the hill.

I really don't see any bargains in the 5 to 15 year range. Usually the wines in that age range that come up for auction are big names and go for a premium. Most of the deals I find are in the older wines, things like 70s or early 80s Bordeaux. Wines that are not from a "vintage of the century" or that have big name recognition. Still some very interesting wines but they don't have enough following to start a bidding war.

I think the hardest part, if you go in person, is to remember the vig. As you're bidding, it's very easy to forget the house gets a pretty big buyers premium and there may be tax on top of that.

Good Luck if you decide to go,

Andy

[Ramon_NYC]

I’ve had 90+ satisfaction ratings on wine provenance with stuff from Acker and Hart-Davis-Hart, but slightly lower rating with the ones from Zachys, which usually would rank among my highest provenance rating for my non-auction buys. I’ve always split bids with others who are more knowledgeable about the auction pricing/bids/provenance in these auction houses.

I’ve delved into winebid.com in the past few months, with enablement from just about every wine geek that I meet, and have had good provenance success with some mid-90’s stuff that I won. I think, though, that when all is bid-and-done, their prices are really just slightly below those of retailers. Regardless, they seem to always have cool, hard-to-find stuff (for me) that’s well worth experimenting with; or a bottle or 2 of something that I've been looking for and they just make it so convenient to just click-and--buy.

Ramon

[mike reff]

I have bought both at online and live auction from Zachys, Winebid, and Acker. you can find some great bargins with mixed case lots even those from 5-15 years ago. You do need to keep in mind that the buyers premium is around 20% plus taxes and insurance. Once you figure that you can breakdown the price per bottle and determine what your "high" bid should be. Check out some of the retailers websites such as Acker and Zachys and preuse through the catalogs. Lots that are mixed or are not full cases are the better ones to bid on. Also "off" vintages are sold sometimes at rock bottom prices, Bordeaux 2002...And port as well. hope this helps.

[Michael-P]

I agree with all the advice above, plus pay attention to the descriptions. A case of something with levels at mid-shoulder and missing/damaged labels will sell for less (sometimes a lot less) than perfect condition bottles. Of course, you get what you pay for....

Michael-P

[Blanquito]

I use WineBid a lot, with a remarkably high success rate per provenance given the crap shoot that it is. For whatever reason, older bottles of US-made wines almost all have perfect bottle conditions, while older French wine and sometimes Italian wine seem to have suffered less than perfect storage along the way (maybe getting sold and re-sold again and again?).

WineBid has several keys-- 1. Be patient. There's an auction every week, 52 weeks a year. I've bought bottles for $30 that started out at $65, waiting for them to drop to my price. Lots with a high number of bottles (12+) usually go down after a few weeks, as they fail to sell out initially. Also, deals come and go, so keep an eye out. 2. Have strict rules per bottle condition. I never buy anything with "signs of seepage" or bad fills. 3. Remember to include the buyers premium in your calculations. 4. Check prices against wine-searcher. In theory, the seller sets the price at WineBid, so prices can be all over the place, from as low as 25% below retail to higher than retail. Never buy from WineBid unless it's a very-good-to-great deal. 5. Bid first. The first bidder secures the best price. This won't help for pricey or in-demand stuff, but for most of the wines on the site, the only screaming deals are the opening bid pricing.

Even with these guidelines, you may go broke!

The beauty of WineBid is the ease and single-bottle purchasing option. As Ramon says, they've lots of rare and unusual wines (and lots of crap too like 20 year-old Beaujolais), so it's fun to experiment and broaden horizons. I just bought a goodly amount of a selection of Alsatian wines-- all kinds of grapes, and vineyards, and sweetness levels, and vintages-- at prices literally 1/2 to 1/3 retail pricing. Someone was dumping heaps of it, to my gain.

[marcs]

Yeah, winebid is full of interesting little gambles. Like, I see a bottle of 2006 Verget Bougros up there for $20...not the greatest year for classic-styled Chablis, not the best of the GCs, but still...Grand Cru chablis from a reputable producer for $20? Not too bad!

I was actually asking this question about getting into the fancier/bigger auction scene. I took my first flyer on it after I posted this, and discovered that the lower end of the bidding range they post is mostly there to induce the newbies into it. Oh well, it was fun to fantasize that I'd get a case of 2004 Yquem for $65 a half bottle, instead of the $110/half it eventually went for. Like buying a lottery ticket to throw my bid in there.

I did come away with a half a case of 2005 Gros F&S Vougeot Musigni for about $20-25 per bottle less than the lowest price showing on Winesearcher. So that was nice. Going over the auction results, I saw a couple of other people coming away with decent deals, but not so much in the Bordeaux area I think. The wines are too well known.

[stefan]

>>
they've lots of rare and unusual wines (and lots of crap too like 20 year-old Beaujolais)
>>

I once purchased a 25 year old Mouton Cadet from WB to serve to a French friend who, in his American home, drank only Mouton Cadet. I think that was what convinced him to try some other wines for home drinking while in the USA.

[Michael-P]

Bill:

That was funny! And a good lesson.

Michael-P