Not a single Bordeaux in Wine Spectator Top 100

[JimHow]

I was leafing through the latest edition at the supermarket this evening....

They're pretty kooky over there in Marvin Shanken land.

Bring back James Suckling I say!

[DavidG]

Who cares what WS says? Really, I stopped caring about the top 100 years ago. I haven't looked at the list, but I'm guessing they left off all the Bordeaux because the "popular" ones are all terrible QPR.

PS I finally got a phone that works on this forum

[JonB]

You must be reading the North American version. Have you read the Chinese version?

More seriously, WS is not high on the quality of 2008 (and the prices were still high compared to most wine regions of the world), 2007 was also not the best....so given their criteria of quality, value and availability....in their eyes Bordeaux must have been lacking in 2 out of 3 (even though they featured a few Bordeaux in their values feature, they were not stunning values).

[Chasse-Spleen]

My friend Paul pointed this out to me a few days ago. He feels that the Bordeaux bubble is about to burst. In my interpretation, maybe the WS is trying to send a little message to Bordeaux. The Bordelais can't be too thrilled about being left of the list completely. It's really a pretty big swipe. Certainly, there are some Bordeaux from either '07 or '08 that are better in most respects than some of the wines on the list.

If you think about it, it's pretty disgusting - as the middle class shrinks and most people are struggling, Bordeaux raise their prices across the board - Thanks!

In the Quarterly Wine Review, the editor takes a healthy swipe at Lafite. The Bordeaux devils are on quite a few people's radar, I would say.

-Chasse

[DavidG]

Would '08 Bdx even be eligible for WS Top 100 consideration? The better '08s wont be released until later this year (or 2015 if you bought from Premier Cru ). I thought availability was one of the criteria, though again it's been probably 10 years since I've read it so maybe they've changed. Or maybe they figure it makes sense to give a heads up on wines that readers will still have a chance to buy? IAC, wasn't Parker a standard deviation more enthusiastic about '08s than anyone else?

Speaking of Bdx, I have a confession to make. After months of righteously espousing my "throughness" with buying new young Bdx, I broke down and ordered some '09 futures. Yes, I'm a flip-flopper. I'd fail miserably as a politician, even with a Nebuchadnezzer-sized gavel. I plunked down for mostly affordable stuff that should be drinkable young but also last a while. Most are not real familiar to me so I bought enough to follow their evolution:

Cantemerle - in honor of the '05s selection as BWE WOTY, it seemed like a decent QPR at $35, though this was second-growth money not long ago.
Haut Bergey - I admit it, bought purely on RP's tout and what seemed like pretty good QPR at about $30. Hope he's right.
Lalande Borie - another one RP liked for under $30

At a little higher price point, a wine I am familiar with:
Talbot - I loved this in '82 and '86 and it sounds like '09 could be similar. RP says "sexy, seductive, slutty" - wine porn! Not too outrageous at $55.

Of course I needed one real splurge, and since my absolute favorite Haut Brion has priced itself way more than any wine could be worth to me (unless someone else is opening it! ), I went for one of my other all-time favorites:
Angelus. I wont say how much I paid, but compared to the first growths, it was cheap!

[JimHow]

Well done, David. Very well done. Bordeaux is still the best.... By light years.
The 2008s are starting to come out. I'm going to buy some '09 futures as well. I'm going to live forever.

[JonB]

David - interesting....I also scouted out '09 Haut Bergey and Cantermele this week, but didn't pull the trigger. If prices stay the same, after tasting the 08s at UGC later in January I'll decide then. So far I've maintained my oath to Blanquito's plea....and haven't bought 09 futures since the few I bought right at the onset.

Good point, I don't know if 08 Bordeaux was even considered on the List, but since their in-bottle reviews came out on the website I thought it might be considered, but your probably right....they considered 06 and 07 Bordeaux. Although it is hard to see why any '08s make it on next year's list either.

Jim - it is Friday night, I was expecting a thought-stream-tasting-note-poltical-commentary-current-affairs-Boston-sports-thread. Are you on your break? Are you going to watch the Seattle Seahawks --- the only NFL team to make the playoffs (ever) with a losing record --- take it to the New Orleans Saints?

[JimHow]

I've started my three-month fast, Jon, as I begin my quest to get in marathon shape.

I'm REALLY looking forward to this weekend in football, it should be four great games, we get to sit back and watch while everyone else sweats this weekend.

I predict victories by Kansas City, New Orleans, Indianapolis, and Green Bay.

[Tom In DC]

There is one Bordeaux on the list -- Rollan de By 2008, at number 96!

[robertgoulet]

Honestly guys does anyone really care about list? Maybe the top 5 if a potential qpr is among them.

[DavidG]

Good ole Rollan de By. I will never forget our idyllic bus ride to and from Rollan de By on the hottest day of 2005.

M. Guyon, though, was a welcoming host and he's got a pretty sharp palate. The highlight of the evening for me was the look on Francois' face when Kathy Roberts nailed his ancient dessert wine. I hope M. Guyon benefits from whatever publicity attaches to being the WA 96th WOTY.

[Chasse-Spleen]

Too bad for Indianapolis

[JonB]

That was a great game.

Too bad for New Orleans.

[Chasse-Spleen]

The Rangers and Islanders won too! it was a great night for New York sports.

[JimHow]

Wow, what a couple of games yesterday! Ugh, now we have to listen to Rex Ryan for the next week. Jets fans must be in ecstacy. That Mark Sanchez has a flair for the big play when it is needed. Are the Seahawks going to be Cinderella?

[JonB]

The Seahawks played at a different level the last two weeks. The home field has given them an advantage, both emotionally and tacticly. They have a chance against Chicago if they can maintain that level of play away from home.

[Claudius2]

Guys
the omission of any Bordeaux I take more as politics than anyhtng to do with wine.
There are (IMHO) some ordinary wines on that list.

[Houndsong]

I'm weary of lists and statistics. Most Americans love them though. Since football has reared its head here too, I recall a graphic from yesterday's Philly-Green Bay game about how many times Vick was a) sacked b) hit c) hurried d) harassed e) bothered f) nonplussed.

I think this is Football's (i.e. "soccer") greatest failing, and the reason for its poor uptake among Americans. Not enough statistics. You've got goals, shots, fouls, and corner kicks. That's it. How's that supposed to keep anyone interested for 90 minutes?

[DavidG]

Hound, you're missing the point(s). There are more points in one game on the gridiron than in a whole season of futbol. And we Americans can't keep interested unless we have something obvious to cheer about: POINTS. Kind of like wine, ain't it?

[Chasse-Spleen]

I finally got to look at the list and I have to add, there is very little red Burgundy on there, either, and not a heck of a lot of white Burgundy, as well. It seems to be dominated by new world stuff, with a general direction of relatively less expensive wines. It's kind of interesting. I'm definitely going to look out for this d'Arenberg red blend that goes for $11.

[Tom In DC]

Chasse,

Given what I can glean of your taste in wine... Be afraid, be very afraid, of any cheap wine from D'Arenberg, or even the whole continent of Australia for that matter.

(God help me, but I probably deserve all the abuse that will heaped upon for that comment......)

(More pithy comments about the correlation between the WS Top 100 and the WS full page adverts have been deleted on the advice of counsel...)

[Chasse-Spleen]

Thanks for the advice, Tom. I did enjoy the d'Arenberg Footbolt a few times about 7 years ago, and recently enjoyed a 2002 bottle of their sticky, The Noble or whatever it's called. But I understand that that doesn't guarantee that I would be able to choke down a cheap recent release. I once had a barrel sample of the Dead Arm and that was interesting. If the Jump Stump crosses my path, I will judge by the alchohol content as to whether I will try it.

[Gerry M.]

My friend Paul pointed this out to me a few days ago. He feels that the Bordeaux bubble is about to burst. In my interpretation, maybe the WS is trying to send a little message to Bordeaux. The Bordelais can't be too thrilled about being left of the list completely. It's really a pretty big swipe. Certainly, there are some Bordeaux from either '07 or '08 that are better in most respects than some of the wines on the list.

If you think about it, it's pretty disgusting - as the middle class shrinks and most people are struggling, Bordeaux raise their prices across the board - Thanks!

In the Quarterly Wine Review, the editor takes a healthy swipe at Lafite. The Bordeaux devils are on quite a few people's radar, I would say.

-Chasse

Chasse, When your friend Paul refers to the "Bordeaux bubble" I assume he's talking about 1st growths like Lafitte and a few other minor exceptions? Because frankly, compared to California, Bordeaux still looks like a bargain in my mind. There are plenty of top notch 3rd & 4th growths that can be had on release for less than $50/btl. There are fewer and fewer examples of that domestically these days.

I do agree that the Asian market has created a limited scope bubble over individual wines that cannot be economically sustained indefinately. At some point the luster will wear off or the Asian economy will tank and the rug will be pulled out from under all the speculators. But I do believe that if you exclude these anomalys then Bordeaux offers more value than you think.

I wouldn't read too much into WS shuning 07 & 08. They're correct in the prices are too high but guess what? come the release of 09" with prices through the roof where your paying 4x the price for the same wine because is has a "score" 5 points higher than it's 08' counterpart, where's the "value" in that? And how many of the wines will find there way into the WS Top 20? The answer- plenty. As someone else has said already, in my mind what WS says about Bordeaux is irrelevant, good or bad especially since Suckling is gone.

I

[Jay Winton]

Chasse,

Given what I can glean of your taste in wine... Be afraid, be very afraid, of any cheap wine from D'Arenberg, or even the whole continent of Australia for that matter.

(God help me, but I probably deserve all the abuse that will heaped upon for that comment......)

(More pithy comments about the correlation between the WS Top 100 and the WS full page adverts have been deleted on the advice of counsel...)

I don't think it's news that Australia has suffered greatly from succumbing to the temptation to Parkerize many of their exported wines. I have been assured by many Australians that we don't see their best here

[alchemeus]

My friend Paul pointed this out to me a few days ago. He feels that the Bordeaux bubble is about to burst. In my interpretation, maybe the WS is trying to send a little message to Bordeaux. The Bordelais can't be too thrilled about being left of the list completely. It's really a pretty big swipe. Certainly, there are some Bordeaux from either '07 or '08 that are better in most respects than some of the wines on the list.

If you think about it, it's pretty disgusting - as the middle class shrinks and most people are struggling, Bordeaux raise their prices across the board - Thanks!

In the Quarterly Wine Review, the editor takes a healthy swipe at Lafite. The Bordeaux devils are on quite a few people's radar, I would say.

-Chasse

Chasse, When your friend Paul refers to the "Bordeaux bubble" I assume he's talking about 1st growths like Lafitte and a few other minor exceptions? Because frankly, compared to California, Bordeaux still looks like a bargain in my mind. There are plenty of top notch 3rd & 4th growths that can be had on release for less than $50/btl. There are fewer and fewer examples of that domestically these days.

4th Growth? $50/btl? You call than a bargain?

Oh well, glad I'm out of that market for sure.

Damn, wonder what folk from the 1970's would think. I remember something about Lafite being like $10.

[Gerry M.]

Alchemeus,

I realize prices have increased tremendously over the last 30 years but that's happened accross the board. When I said less than $50/btll I assumed most would realize that many of these wines can also be had for less than $30.

Your fortunate to have a cellar size that allows you to be out of the market

[Claudius2]

Hound,
Americans should then watch cricket.
It is a statisticians dream. Everything can be quantified, averaged and measured.

Guys
It is complete bullshit that the Bortdeaux bubble is going to burst.
Those who say that need to get out a bit more.
China has become the blargest market for Bordeaux and beleive me living here in Asia, it is revered.
And the local buyers (okay, many are label drinkers and haven't a clue) see France and Bordeaux as the epitome of wine.

As for Lafite and the 1ers Crus, they are status symbols and not drinks any more.
If you pay $100K for a handbag or piece of jewellery or own three Ferraris, then a few grand for a bottle of plonk is chicken feed.
Your economy in the USA may be struggling but there is so much new money in Asia is it scary (and at times almost obscene).

[alchemeus]

Hound,
Americans should then watch cricket.
It is a statisticians dream. Everything can be quantified, averaged and measured.

Guys
It is complete bullshit that the Bortdeaux bubble is going to burst.
Those who say that need to get out a bit more.
China has become the blargest market for Bordeaux and beleive me living here in Asia, it is revered.
And the local buyers (okay, many are label drinkers and haven't a clue) see France and Bordeaux as the epitome of wine.

As for Lafite and the 1ers Crus, they are status symbols and not drinks any more.
If you pay $100K for a handbag or piece of jewellery or own three Ferraris, then a few grand for a bottle of plonk is chicken feed.
Your economy in the USA may be struggling but there is so much new money in Asia is it scary (and at times almost obscene).

Exactly Claudius. Heck, glad I got some Margaux and Lafitte and Haut Brion way back when. $99 per. Retirement wines.

Quality doesn't matter if snobbery comes in. Heck, if a $1 Timex watch from 1965 is perceived as 'the in thing' and suddenly it goes to $100,000, well, the same with wine. If someone is willing to pay however much for that product then that is the current value of it, no matter the quality. Which is why I don't buy on price, and often don't buy based on points (raises the price). I sample and buy on taste.