Oh, how I love France...

[JonoB]

... And don't know why I haven't been to the family recluse for more than 10 years!

Went to the hypermarché today to pick up cheese and hams, and a bit of fruit so we can make white stew tonight. What do I find?

2004 & 2007 Chateau Poujeaux available at €17,65 and €24.95 respectively.



So I bought three bottles of each...

P.S. I haven't checked WS-Pro yet, please don't break my heart...

[stefan]

$30 for the '04 in the US of A, Jonathan. Good buy!

[AlexR]

Would only want to live one other place: Italy.

Alex R.

[JonoB]

Even in Italy, I would only pick Piemonte (mainly because I love the wine) lifestyle would be brilliant elsewhere as well.

I could live anywhere in France...

[BordeauxKassett]

Popped the Poujeaux 2007 tonight. It is great and somewhat open for business now, but will probably need 2-4 more years before really coming into its own.

[Comte Flaneur]

Me too.

The French and the Italians know how to live life.

Shame their economies are quasi-insolvent.

But then again I guess so are the US and the UK.

[JonoB]

In an International survey, France was No. 1 and Italy No. 2 for the happiest and best lifestyles/philosophy of living.

We have spotted a little shop €280 a month to rent, and are seriously considering setting up a small boutique winebar/ retail outlet!!

[Claudius2]

Comte
While you are partly right that their economies are struggling, the same is at least as true for the US - despite recent improvements.
The fundamental difference is that the French and Italians can lead a good life without takng over Wall Street and launching their own Ponzi scheme.
In the US, you may as well commit suicide if you are not rich famous and powerful.
In Europe, a paysan (peasant) is valued and not ridiculed.
I know I'm being anecdotal but human exstance is NOT just about how many greenbacks or Euros you have.
I would never consider living in the US but would lke to retire in Tuscany or Provence.
So I can watch the sunset with a glass of Chianti or Bandol and forget about the stockmarket and derivatives.
Better to have a life you like living and having limited money than being rich and unhappy.
And the really wealthy people I know (like some neighbours) all seem irritable, frustrated and empty.

[JonoB]

I suppose in some ways, trying to appreciate as oppose to neck wine is in some ways a futile attempt to obtain just a smidgen of the paysan lifestyle!? The problem is that to eat and drink as well as they do, you either have to go and live there, or you have to spend a ridiculous amount of money... I prefer the former.

[stefan]

>>
In the US, you may as well commit suicide if you are not rich famous and powerful.
>>

Mark, are you joking, or are you really that ignorant?

[JonoB]

Probably just a heated comment to mean, 'if you aren't to some extent well off, life can be tough' whereas in Italy and France, you can have a good lifestyle without spending much money.

[stefan]

But that is also true in the USA, Jonathan, especially if you live in a small town. In France or the UK the situation is not so different. I cannot imagine having a reasonable life style in London or Paris on a meagre income.

[JonoB]

I could in Paris, and the English countryside is not cheap, and the industrial North is a tough place to live anyway, even if the countryside is beautiful. there are parts of Britain where a pint of beer is more expensive than in London.

Whereas I know little of the USA, I can only take other people's word for it... Simply trying to translate the comment that could be seen as inflammatory into something less flammatory.

[stefan]

Reasonable housing in Paris and London is very expensive, Jonathan, as you well know. You can live in NYC without a lot of money if you have housing; actually, for less than in Paris.

[JonoB]

That I can imagine, but if you have to rent, surely it is expensive?

We are actually thinking seriously about giving up London completely and living in the family recluse!
I can still do my work, and it will be cheaper to visit and source wines for the business, and having a front door to the business as oppose to simply a website/blog will also help.

May even put GAP on the MAP for a select few who frequent certain forums.

[Claudius2]

Guys
If you want cheap rent or housing, don't move to SIngapore.
Our terrace house (some frontage and a small rear garden though the buildings are drab) is about $US6,000 a month and some friends are paying multiples of that for nice houses.
I see so much cash thrown around (like my neighbour with two Ferraris, a Lambourgini and a BMW X6) in a very unequal world.
Maybre I'm just getting old and see the folly of conspicuous consumption!

[Ramon_NYC]

You can live in NYC without a lot of money if you have housing; actually, for less than in Paris.

I agree. I'm just glad that I own my house here in NYC. I'll find it hard to afford a similar one today if I have to rent, or buy.

[JonoB]

But let's make this a fair bet... If you own and have no mortgage on a house in London or Paris then it is not hard to live on not much money.

If you have to rent or buy now (I.e. Large mortgage) PAris to me seems the cheapest of the three!

[marcs]

The difference between France and the U.S. lies in the mentality and quality of everyday life more than the cost of living, which in most places would be lower in the U.S. American culture puts a huge valuation on success/wealth/work over family/leisure/quality of life. Most educated Americans move far away from their birth families and childhood friends to follow their careers, have limited leisure time (employed Americans work more hours than any other advanced country), there are no union protections for employment or vacations and no guarantees of basic goods (health, education, etc.) through the social safety net. The quality of food in the U.S. has been sacrificed to industrial/profit demands. The situation is different in many parts of Europe.

America is a good place to be upper class or rich, but it's a stressful society in many ways.

[AlexR]

Marc,

I agree with what you say, but you would probably get in trouble for espousing such views at a dinner party!

In fact, both the French and the Americans are pretty chauvinistic, feeling that their society should serve as a model for the rest of the world...
The French deem this as no less than their "mission civilisatrice"!

Is is any wonder that Franco-American relations are so stormy: like a couple that loves each other but fights all the time!

Another big difference is that conversations around the dinner table in France tend to be much more "no holds barred", with a far lower political correctness threshhold.
People love to talk, to get to the heart of the matter, to court controversy and yes, sometimes go for the jugular!

As for "the quality of life", definitions vary! There is no better or worse here.

Best regards,
Alex R.