SF '11: The 1989 vs. 1990 blind tasting

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Some 20+ years later, the Suckling (1989) vs. Parker (1990) controversy will be resolved....

Team 1989 is shaping up nicely....

We have two bottles each of:

1989 Pichon Baron
1989 Leoville Las Cases

William P has offered to add a bottle of 1989 Lynch Bages.
Does anyone else have a bottle of 1989 Lynch to add to the blind tasting?

Team 1990 is shaping up as follows:

We have two bottles of the controversial 1990 Pichon Lalande.
Do we have any 1990 Lagrange available?
Werner is bringing a 1990 Latour, do we have another 1990 Latour available?

I think the following blind tasting would be fun:

Team 1989
1989 Lynch Bages
1989 Pichon Baron
1989 Leoville Las Cases

vs.

Team 1990
1990 Pichon Lalande
1990 Latour
1990 Lagrange

Of course, everyone should feel free to bring other 1989s and 1990s (or any other Bordeaux vintage) for the rest of the convention dinner.

I'll defer all final decisions on this to you, Werner.

We will solve the question:
Which vintage is better: The underrated 1989 vintage of James Suckling, or the overrated hot vintage of Robert Parker?

What a beautiful moment that would be, to see the old combatants, 1989 Lynch and 1989 Baron, battling side by side to defend the honor of 1989....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:46 pm

If that is the match up, 1989 should win, although the finicky countess could surprise us.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:53 pm

Geez, I don't know, stefan, the LLC is one of the lowest-rated LLCs by HWSRN in the past 30 years.
Plus, 1990 has the supposed 100 point Latour (although, those of us in the know are aware how vastly overrated it is).
And the '90 Lagrange we are all in agreement is a great wine, with special significance for BWE this year.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:58 pm

Claret has a '90 Baron, if anyone has a bottle of that wine perhaps we could replace the '90 Lalande to even things up.
Although, it would be fun to see how the flawed '90 Lalande performs in the blind tasting.
Hey, even Boones Farm got a vote in the 2002 Napa blind tasting.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:00 am

I'd love to see 1990 Lagrange in the mix.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:04 am

It should be a great tasting with 3 BWE favorites ('89 Baron & Lynch; '90 Lagrange) and 3 controversial wines.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:08 am

I predict the above wines would rank as follows:

1. 1989 Lynch Bages
2. 1990 Lagrange
3. 1989 Pichon Baron
4. 1990 Latour
5. 1989 LLC
6. 1990 Pichon Lalande

One point will separate each of the first three wines, then the other three wines will drop off significantly in the vote totals.
Under the above results, 1989 will edge out 1990.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:09 am

The first three wines, of course, were each separated by one (not-without-controversy-) vote back in 2001 at the first BWE convention in Chicago.

Will history repeat itself?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:11 am

Have the losers on erobertparker.com finally come around to recognizing that their boy was wrong about the 1990 Latour, that it is vastly overrated? Have they come around to our side on this one?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:17 am

Any of the first five could win. If the Pichon Lalande scores well it will be a surprise.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:21 am

Geez, I dunno, stefan, some people insist 1990 Lalande is an excellent wine, albeit misunderstood.
We did a Pichon Lalande tasting in Chicago with Rick and Jon and friends a couple years ago, the '90 Lalande came in dead last.
It is a flawed wine in my opinion, there is no doubt about it.

But, hey... let's see how it does in a blind setting!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:24 am

By the way, I also think the 1989 LLC is a flawed wine, a disappointment in the vintage.
Some here think it is a success.
Let's get it on!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:26 am

You are right... there are 3 wines that have consistently performed well, and 3 that are controversial.
Let's get it on!

Anybody have any 90 Latour and 90 Lagrange in their cellars?

aimeedogdogdog · Post by **aimeedogdogdog** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:30 am

I think the '90 Lalande is flawed too, which is just too simple for this chateau.

Jim,

I think it would be great if we get all the wines you mentioned. It would be a lot of fun to see the results.

Werner

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:33 am

Yes sir!

I think it would be fun.

Like Stefan said... we would have 3 legendary BWE wines, the top three wines at the Chicago '01 blind tasting, including the epic 1989 Lynch and Baron, and the beloved '90 Lagrange of Dennis Bates.

Then we have 3 controversial wines... '90 Latour, '90 Lalande, '89 LLC... they could be great, or they could suck.

Let's get it on!

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:36 am

Just a side note, but did RP get '89? Nic (pants up) and I shared an '89 LeovillePoyferre that Nic and I scored a 95. RP reviewed this at 87 points twice and 89 once, calling the tannins tough and the texture coarse. To his credit Neal Martin reviewed it at 88-89 in2003, but finally got it right with a95 point score in 2008.

I think there may be a few '89 surprises, including LLC.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:06 pm

No, Jon, HWSRN did not get 1989, leading to the conclusion of a whole generation of Parker sycophants that the unbalanced, soupy 1990 vintage is superior to 1989. As usual, it will be left to BWE to get at the truth of the matter, and dispell the myths. It is the least we can do in service to the rest of the wine world.

RDD · Post by **RDD** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:21 pm

There are great wines in both vintages.
1990 was certainy a tremendous bargain compared to 1989.
Where is the Right Bank in the "taste off"?

Since I'm not able to attend I can throw rocks from afar. HAHAHA

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:24 pm

Rob...
"Right bank...."
Is that part of Bordeaux???

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:28 pm

JimHow wrote:By the way, I also think the 1989 LLC is a flawed wine, a disappointment in the vintage.
Some here think it is a success.
Let's get it on!

I'm a huge fan of 89 LLC... I think like the 82, 85 and amazingly 78 I just needs about as much time if not more than Leoville-Barton, and I include the 90 Leoville as being utterly backwards.

RDD · Post by **RDD** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:45 pm

JimHow wrote:Rob...
"Right bank...."
Is that part of Bordeaux???

Maybe it's "better half"? Misunderstood and under appreciated.
L'Angelus 1989/1990 would be very nice to taste.
Or La Conseillante Or Cheval Blanc.Or Le Terte Roteboeuf.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:04 pm

I can't find my bottle of 1989 Lynch Bages.

Along with the 1989 Baron, I can bring a 1989 Angelus or a 1989 Lagrange. let me know.

aimeedogdogdog · Post by **aimeedogdogdog** » Mon May 02, 2011 7:31 pm

A quick update (hopefully I got it right as the bottles people would bring were menioned all over the places/threads)

Here is a list of wine folks could bring:

Aimeedogdogdog: 89 Margaux, 90 Latour
Claret: 90 Pichon Baron, 90 Lagrange
JonB: 89 Poyferre, 89 Haut Bailly, 90 Barton
Jay Winton: 89 Calon Segur
Jal: 89 Angelus, 89 Lagrange

Wines of having 2 bottles:
1. 89 Baron -- MichaelP, Jal
2. 89 Lynch Bages -- William P, Aimeedogdogdog (I do have to double-check in my offsite cellar later this week)
3. 89 Las Cases -- JonB, Stefan

1. 90 Pichon Lalande -- MichaelP, Stefan

So I think the 89 is complete. Now we need some 90 bottles. I sent CabFan an email and see if he has some.

Ian,

Do you see anything in your cellar in London?

Werner

aimeedogdogdog · Post by **aimeedogdogdog** » Tue May 03, 2011 12:47 am

Ok, I have 2 bottles of 1990 Cos dEstournel from CabFan. Thank you, Peter!

Here is the lastest:
Wines of having 2 bottles:
1. 89 Baron -- MichaelP, Jal
2. 89 Lynch Bages -- William P, Aimeedogdogdog (I do have to double-check in my offsite cellar later this week)
3. 89 Las Cases -- JonB, Stefan

1. 90 Pichon Lalande -- MichaelP, Stefan
2. 90 Cos dEstournel -- CabFan

So we need 2 more bottles of a '90 bordeaux, and we would have the complete 90 for the blind tasting too.

Werner

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue May 03, 2011 3:49 am

I see the fix is already in, with Pichon Lalande representing the '90s. Put an '89 Pichon Lalande in there and it'll blow the rest of them away. It did at BWE DC...

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Tue May 03, 2011 4:33 am

I'm sorry that we will not be able to make this year's event. The blind tasting is shaping up to be a classic, and I will miss the chance to cast the deciding vote. It is amazing how close some of these blind tastings have been. A single point separated the winner at the inaugural 2001 event in Chicago. And if memory serves, the vote last year in Chicago at the 10 year anniversary was just as close.

These events are always a wonderful combination of great wines, great food, and great friends - not necessarily in that order. For all those attending this year, have a fabulous time - including the whoopie pie tasting!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue May 03, 2011 11:52 am

We'll miss you guys at the SF '11 convention but I promise that, as usual, the blind tasting will be conducted with nothing but the highest standards of honesty, fairness, and accuracy. It is a BWE tradition.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue May 03, 2011 12:36 pm

Like JonCN, I am sorry to miss this one. Too many days out of the office this year, but I will be thinking of you all and casting an absentee ballot for '89 Lynch. I know you'll have a great time and even though I know they can't come close to duplicating actually being there, I look forward to the posts... and pics!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue May 03, 2011 3:17 pm

aimeedogdogdog wrote:A quick update (hopefully I got it right as the bottles people would bring were menioned all over the places/threads)

Here is a list of wine folks could bring:

Aimeedogdogdog: 89 Margaux, 90 Latour
Claret: 90 Pichon Baron, 90 Lagrange
JonB: 89 Poyferre, 89 Haut Bailly, 90 Barton
Jay Winton: 89 Calon Segur
Jal: 89 Angelus, 89 Lagrange

Wines of having 2 bottles:
1. 89 Baron -- MichaelP, Jal
2. 89 Lynch Bages -- William P, Aimeedogdogdog (I do have to double-check in my offsite cellar later this week)
3. 89 Las Cases -- JonB, Stefan

1. 90 Pichon Lalande -- MichaelP, Stefan

So I think the 89 is complete. Now we need some 90 bottles. I sent CabFan an email and see if he has some.

Ian,

Do you see anything in your cellar in London?

Werner

Werner

The only 1989 I have is la lagune and am happy to bring that

For the Saturday I was thinking of bring 4 x Yquem 03 splits + two bottles of other Bordeaux for the dinner after the tasting, one of which will be a Pape Clement 1988 and the other something like a LTHB 1979...or the Lagune 89 + alos have Lagune 86 to try against it. I do have quite afew 1989s and 1990s but still in storage

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Tue May 03, 2011 4:18 pm

I may have 2 Calon Segur-will check when I'm back in the casa Friday

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue May 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Looks like Team 1989 is set. We need two more 1990s!

hm$ · Post by **hm$** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:46 am

i will work on the 90s tomorrow.

David K · Post by **David K** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:17 pm

Kind of late to the topic, I have a single bottle of 1990 Leoville Barton if that works.

David

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:43 pm

That might work, David.
JonB, did you say you have a bottle of '90 Barton?

hm$ · Post by **hm$** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:08 am

I have a mag of '90 Leoville Barton that I can bring.

hm$

aimeedogdogdog · Post by **aimeedogdogdog** » Fri May 06, 2011 2:27 am

Thank you, David and Howard for offering the '90 Barton. The magnum might be too obvious for a blind tasting when the rest of the wines are in standard format. So let's have JonB and DavidK to bring single bottles.

Here is the lastest:
Wines of having 2 bottles:
1. 89 Baron -- MichaelP, Jal
2. 89 Lynch Bages -- William P, Aimeedogdogdog (I do have to double-check in my offsite cellar later this week)
3. 89 Las Cases -- JonB, Stefan

1. 90 Pichon Lalande -- MichaelP, Stefan
2. 90 Cos dEstournel -- CabFan
3. '90 Leoville Barton -- JonB, DavidK

We are set for the blind tasting!

Thanks, everyone!
Werner

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:28 am

Sounds awesome, Werner. Let's get it on!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:43 pm

Do we have a couple of those wine pouring measuring thingys?
Also, with David, Jon, and Rick not in attendance this year, we'll need a couple volunteers to pour the wines and tally up the victory for Lynch, er, tally up the votes....

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:50 pm

I spotted one 89 Calon Segur; however my storage area is totally disorganized as I've been reorganizing lately. If I can't bring 2 CS, I will see what else I have in that vintage.

aimeedogdogdog · Post by **aimeedogdogdog** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:18 am

Jim,

I just bought 6 bar pours (1.5 oz per pour) yesterday. And I have the BWE west coast gangs (Peter, David K, Ed, Michael-P, Chris, and me) to help uncork and pour wines, tabulate and conduct the blind tasting, etc. Thanks for asking, but basically we are all set, I think. I just have a few details to finalize with the hotel and my gang helpers.

I sent Phil an email for the BWE logo so hoepfully he could send that to me.

Werner