Bordeaux, Parker, etc... It's all becoming irrelevant to me.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed May 04, 2011 7:49 pm

I got my Advocate today.
I stopped my Speculator subscription months ago.
I started reading like the first two paragraphs of Parker's introduction to the 2010 vintage.
Same old bullshit....
Another vintage of the century....
One of the best three he's ever tasted....
High prices....
Asia....
Yada yada....
I haven't boought a single bottle of wine in 2011....
It is all grossing me out.
I'm tired of all the bullshit.
I really have like no interest to look at his scores of these wildly overpriced wines.
Sure I'll buy more wines in the future, but not anywhere near the levels of passion/insanity that I have in the past.
I have "gotten over" my obsession with the game that is Bordeaux....
It has become totally grotesque.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Wed May 04, 2011 9:29 pm

I don't know why we got so hopped up about it in the first place. It all tastes about the same, to me at least. Now beer, that's different.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:16 am

Tanzer's IWC is the only one I pay for

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:52 am

Having been relegated to living on one income for much of the past 1.5 years, I have become much more focused on value for the price. And in the process, I've found that when you look carefully, you can find some very enjoyable wines for under $30, under $20, and even under $10 when on sale. Admittedly, they lack the complexity and ability to age of the more "respected" labels. But I am not in a position to enjoy a peak tasting experience every evening, anyway. So finding the good quality, well-made wines that I can enjoy any night of the week has been an interesting adventure for me. I'm not experiencing quite the variety of days past, but I can still drink wines that provide pleasure. I had great success buying some under $20 bottles of 2005 Bordeaux wines, and I may try to pursue the same strategy with the 2010 vintage.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:12 am

Jim,

I'm sure almost everyone on BWE shares your frustration.

Fortunately, many of us have a backlog of wines from the time when they were affordable...
(I am lucky enough to be in this position).

I think it is fair to say that the more one learns about Bordeaux, the more independent one becomes with regard to the critics!
So, I'm glad to see that you have reached that stage (and then some!).

However, I was sad to read:
"I have "gotten over" my obsession with the game that is Bordeaux..."
Please don't say that Jim! The mad pricing may not last forever, there are still great growths out there from older vintages to be found at a reasonable price, and (sorry to get on my hobby horse) there are oodles of reasonably priced very good wines in Bordeaux!
Your discouragement is understandable, but please don't throw out the baby with the bath water!

All the best,
Alex R.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:52 am

There will be value at the lower end... Why chase the points. Only buy wines that scored 90 or lower and they surely will provide value and pleasure, if not necessary power and a lack of freshness.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 05, 2011 11:37 am

We've had this discussion before. Sure, there are some "nice enough" Bordeaux wines at the lower levels.
Nothing that awes me, though, that hits me over the head, that changes my life, that kicks in my OCD to the point that I'll drive hundreds of miles around the state of NH or to NYC to get them, that inspires a website, etc.
The wines that make me crazy for Bordeaux are those classified growths that are now out of my price range.
And when I started reading the Advocate yesterday, I just really got grossed out by what Bordeaux has become.
Like David, I have no inclination to pore through Parker's scores in this edition.
I'm just not interested anymore.

rjsussex · Post by **rjsussex** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:44 pm

Have just seen this sentence from Mount Olympian Parker on 2010 - I don't think it's a joke.

'While one cannot control the weather in Bordeaux, I have generally had very good weather during the 32 years I have been visiting this region.'

Richard

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Thu May 05, 2011 12:50 pm

Jim, true enough... So buy older vintages... If you come to Gap and we split the cost, we can have 38 Latour and 54 Haut Brion together!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:17 pm

I can't justify the cost of the older stuff either!

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:24 pm

and I've enjoyed several inexpensive 09 Bordeaux (all under $15). Not meant for your heirs but for you tonight.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu May 05, 2011 4:59 pm

I still haven't read Parker's latest Bdx report, or anyone else's for that matter, except what's been posted here. For all of the reasons mentioned above, my interest in brand new Bdx just isn't there this time around.

Like others, I am finding plenty of enjoyable $10-30 wines made for short-intermediate term (1-5 years) consumption. The '07 Cotes du Rhones and '09 Beaujolais have been filling the bill very nicely of late. I don't need or want a killer wine every night, especially since I usually can't share with Peggy. When I do want something special, the cellar has enough gems to last longer than I will.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:19 pm

One advantage I have found of a $10-30 wine over a better one is that then I can drink 2/3 of the bottle instead of the 1/3 of the bottle I get when Lucie and I share something fine.

Right now I am in the Black Forest sipping on a 10.50 Euro 2008 Weiler Schlipf Baden Spatburgunder from Schneider. It actually smells and tastes like a Pinot Noir with no candied fruit. It is better than most of the under $20 Oregon PN. Still, I am looking forward to drinking something good when I get home on Sunday.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 05, 2011 5:30 pm

Don't get me wrong, the lesser wines can be okay, they're just not generally anything I feel obsessed or passionate about. "Decent" wine just isn't that important to me. I mean, there are a lot of things in everyday life that are "okay." I don't feel the need to spend a whole lot of my very limited time talking about everything that is "okay" in my life. Those Lynch Bages and Pontet Canets and Duhart Milons, etc., that I used to be able to buy, on the other hand, I was passionate about and enjoyed raving and obsessing about. I would put a lot of energy into discussing/buying/obsessing about those wines, to the exclusion of other activities. Nowadays, I just can't get real excited about Bernadotte, Caronne St. Gemme, l'Estang, etc., etc., etc.... All nice wines, I'm sure, but not something I'm going to be spending a lot of time thinking about.

oldwinenut · Post by **oldwinenut** » Thu May 05, 2011 7:57 pm

I agree with Jim. I have been so disgusted with the state of Bordeaux that I have not purchased any classified growth since 2006 and I totally understand and agree that while the "lesser" wines are OK for a pop and pour, they are nothing to get excited about. Deep in my heart I am passionate about a great bottle of Bordeaux and maybe some day we will see a return some level of sanity with regards to pricing. Maybe the Bordeaux bubble will burst like the commodity market did today.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:24 pm

You guys are just making things worse with your talk of "passion" and "great bottles of Bordeaux" (or "bottles of great Bordeaux"), you know. And then there's the old two-case, free case futures game. All of which feeds the loop. I assume that much of the "bubble" can be laid to people wanting to exhibit, if not also especially enjoy, their "great bottles of Bordeaux" for various personal and business reasons and perhaps financial reasons. I'm not sure in any analysis those reasons are subordinate to treating your entrails to the contents of the bottle.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:27 pm

Jim,

You wrote:"

"Nothing that awes me, though, that hits me over the head, that changes my life, that kicks in my OCD to the point that I'll drive hundreds of miles around the state of NH or to NYC to get them, that inspires a website, etc."

The question becomes: is there any wine region, anywhere, that produces that kind of wine within the budget you have set?
Could it be that that sort of wine just is just out of reach from now on, or relegated to very special occasions?

I'm an optimist

.
While I think first growths have become mostly a wet dream, there are many world class wines in Bordeaux at "reasonable" prices.
I'm talking no more than a medium range California Cabernet.

Would I drive hundreds of miles to buy a Château Poujeaux or Potensac?
Probably not.
But there are very few wines of any description that I would do that for anyway!

Please, Jim, if the big boys are beyond the reach of many of us, the answer is to look elsewhere.
That can be in other countries and other regions... but why not in Bordeaux itself?

Best regards,
Alex

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 05, 2011 8:44 pm

Please, Jim, if the big boys are beyond the reach of many of us, the answer is to look elsewhere.
That can be in other countries and other regions... but why not in Bordeaux itself?

Sure, Alex, if the top wines are unavailable without spending a fortune, then I can look elsewhere, including Bordeaux.

But I have unusual wine drinking habits. I really don't just "drink wine with dinner." When I drink wine, it is almost always top Bordeaux or Burgundy. I just don't need to have "decent" wine with dinner, it's not part of my diet or lifestyle. I generally don't drink wine unless it is extraordinary, unless it thrills me. Most of the lower end Bordeaux I've had has just not thrilled me over the years.

So I'm pretty much screwed.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:41 pm

JimHow wrote:I generally don't drink wine unless it is extraordinary, unless it thrills me. Most of the lower end Bordeaux I've had has just not thrilled me over the years.

So I'm pretty much screwed.

I hear ya, Jim. That was my approach for a while. I've adapted, and actually enjoy a glass or two of something (often not Bdx) even if it is just "OK" as long as it complements the meal. Though it doesn't inspire passion, it is satisfying. Even so, a part of the excitement of Bordeaux is gone - mostly the chase for the next great bottle. At least there is some stuff still in the cellar to get excited about.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:14 am

I would put a lot of energy into discussing/buying/obsessing about those wines, to the exclusion of other activities. Nowadays, I just can't get real excited about Bernadotte, Caronne St. Gemme, l'Estang, etc., etc., etc....

Jim, maybe you just have found some other activities to be passionate about.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:19 am

That is definitely true, Jon, but I would still be passionate about classified growth Bordeaux if it were still reasonably affordable.
It was really an epiphany this week when I opened the Parker mag, and I read a few sentences, and I just put it down and I just said to myself, "This is all bullshit...." It really is all bullshit. I don't begrudge the Alfred Tesserons of the world making as much money as they want, it's just not something I want to be involving myself with. I know this sounds like more of my tiresome proletariat hyperbole, but this whole Bordeaux-as-a-Luxury-Item thing is just grotesque to me.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:22 am

Jim,

I absolutely get your perspective on this. If I did not have my age to use as an excuse for not buying, it would be for the same reasons you have.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Fri May 06, 2011 6:53 am

Jim,

It is interesting to see how different the attitudes can be within the same community of Bordeaux lovers! I, for instance, have wine with many of my meals (probably 8-10 a week) and so the enjoying of mid-level wines is a true pleasure to me and really makes me appreciate the hot shit stuff even more.
However, I can certainly understand people such as yourself who drink far less often, and prefer each occasion to be a memorable experience.
I think this also accounts for the fact that the Lafites and Yquems are largely consumed outside France by people who do not come from a wine-drinking culture and who therefore have a reverence for, as well as tremendous expectations from the great wines of Bordeaux and Burgundy. Such drinkers are willing to shell out money on fine wine that no French person in his right mind would spend...

On a more philosophical level, I have no problem admitting that I have had my loins seriously stirred by very modest wines. I don't need a great growth to smack my lips and think "Jesus, ain't it great to be alive?!".
A good example is just a dead simple, fruity, but oh-so-alive Beaujolais (or, let us say, a Côtes de Bourg) with a steak. You can't get any more basic than that. And yet, it can be a supremly satisfying, moving experience.

An analogy: Bread in France can be simply fantastic (although the level is decreasing as time goes on, but that's another story). Munching a good baguette with, say, some scrumptious saucisson and a chunk of ripe brie can be an extraordinarly sensual experience. Although nowhere near comparable to a meal in a 3-star restaurant, it is also an epicurean's dream.
By the same token, so-called minor wines - to my mind - are well worth investigating, and the scope of things to discover is absolutely mind-bending.

To make another analogy, and one I hope doesn't get me thrown off BWE, sometimes you feel like having a long, exquisite, involved session of lovemaking. And sometimes you feel more like a quickie.
Frankly, I like both forms of lovemaking.
And this is kind of why I intersperse serious wines with uncomplicated, "fun" wines - which I would continue to do even if I had the money to drink classified growths all the time...

Alex R.

RDD · Post by **RDD** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:25 am

JimHow wrote:
Please, Jim, if the big boys are beyond the reach of many of us, the answer is to look elsewhere.
That can be in other countries and other regions... but why not in Bordeaux itself?
Sure, Alex, if the top wines are unavailable without spending a fortune, then I can look elsewhere, including Bordeaux.

But I have unusual wine drinking habits. I really don't just "drink wine with dinner." When I drink wine, it is almost always top Bordeaux or Burgundy. I just don't need to have "decent" wine with dinner, it's not part of my diet or lifestyle. I generally don't drink wine unless it is extraordinary, unless it thrills me. Most of the lower end Bordeaux I've had has just not thrilled me over the years.

So I'm pretty much screwed.

Jim:
You're not screwed.
You have a world of true friends which is much more important than wine.
You created this world of friends with your passion and energy.
Be proud of it!
And when you want to rock your world "come on down y'all" and we'll pull the corks out of some great bottles.
Bordeaux has become a trophy wine in many respects.
But your friends laid in a good stash based of loving to share and drink the wines together BEFORE they became trophies.
All I can offer you are older vintages to drink now that many will never get to taste or drink.
BTW I haven't pruchased much since 2003.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:41 am

I'm not screwed in life, Rob, I'm just screwed in my hopes of getting classified growth Bordeaux in future years.
I'd love to buy some Lynch Bages, and Pichon Baron, and Pontet Canet, etc., etc., from 2009.
But I'm just not paying $150+ for those wines.
I wouldn't pay $80+ for those wines.
The passion is gone.

I am no longer in love with Bordeaux....

The love affair is over.

Goodbye, Bordeaux....

Goodbye, forever....

RDD · Post by **RDD** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:50 am

Well come drink a 1983 Palmer.
But I hear you.
There has been a huge seperaion of wealth and items that were once obtainable now seem like absurd luxuries.
But I've found treasures in other areas.
The garden is brimming with fresh asparagus. The strawberries are coming on.
The blackberries and blueberries set heavy this year. Tomatoes,potatoes,garlic,onions,beans,sweet corn and peppers looking good.
Top that off with a mild evening, good friends, fresh garden produce, the grill smoking and of course a fine bottle of wine.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri May 06, 2011 12:52 pm

Great post, Alex. Sometimes those "OK" wines are a lot more than OK. Over the years, I have come to see things more and more as you describe.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:21 pm

It's too late, Bordeaux....
We once had something beautiful. But it's too late baby, now, it's too late....

Stayed in bed all morning just to pass the time
There's something wrong here
There can be no denying
One of us is changing
Or maybe we've just stopped trying

And it's too late baby, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it

It used to be so easy living here with you
You were light and breezy
And I knew just what to do
Now you look so unhappy
And I feel like a fool

And it's too late baby, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died
and I can't hide it
And I just can't fake it

There'll be good times again for me and you
But we just can't stay together
Don't you feel it too
Still I'm glad for what we had
And how I once loved you

But it's too late baby, now it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Something inside has died and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it

Don't you know that I...
I just can't fake it
Oh it's too late my baby
Too late my baby
You know
It's too late my baby

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:42 pm

JIm, you've got it bad. Gonna sing this at the convention?

Maybe what you need from Bdx is a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:48 pm

The CD won't be completed by the convention, David, but it should be done by mid-summer.
I should have both my band's CD and my novel released by fall.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:50 pm

Great music -- great art -- are often inspired by pain.

My divorce from Bordeaux may be cause for some new art.

The break up was painful, but I've come to terms with it.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:28 pm

For every Poor Man's Mouton that has come and gone... There is always poor Man's Pontet... grand puy lacoste is the name me thinks...

there is always Barolo as well!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:39 pm

Drinking Barolo would be like that scene in Annie Hall where he's going after the lobsters in the kitchen and his new date doesn't think it is funny, like Annie Hall did....

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:47 pm

I find inspiration in common, everday words. But then I would be the McCartney to Jim's Lennon.

Ukulele = island baby = Honolulu Hula Girl

Honolulu Hula Girl (lyrics/music copyright Art Buono, 2011)

Out on the ocean at Waikiki
I lay my restless head on a brown-skinned knee

Beneath the moonlit shadows of Diamond Head
With a blanket of stars and the sand for a bed

Oh won't you play the ukulele,
And be my island baby,
My Honolulu Hula Girl

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 06, 2011 8:54 pm

The men in my band have ourselves convinced that we are the new Donald Fagan, Walter Becker, and Skunk Baxter.

I would be Fagan, of course.

Sadly, it does not look like "Driving Into Nashville" is going to make the cut on our first CD, the Andreita album.

Sorry, Rick and Kate, but I'm not ruling it out for the second album....

DRIVING INTO NASHVILLE

(A, Em)

Ricky had a bad winter in Chicago
Same for Kate in Nashville that year
For Ricky there was no tomorrow
For Kate there was nothing but tears

Cold wind off the lake
Like a slap in the face
He knew where he had to go
And he had to get there soon
Lonely Tennessee nights
The Blue Ridge boys are back in town
And all she said was:
”La-di-da.”

Gonna drive on down and see my baby
Gonna drive on down Interstate sixty-five
Gonna drive myself into Nashville
‘Cause I know she’ll be there when I arrive

Headlights come and go
It’s gonna be alright
A hard past left behind
On that northern night
The heart warms here
Through Tennessee hills and farms
He knows real soon
That she’ll be in his arms

Gonna drive on down and see my baby
Gonna drive on down Interstate sixty-five
Gonna drive myself into Nashville
‘Cause I know she’ll be there when I arrive

Yeah I know she’ll be there when I arrive

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Fri May 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Jim,

Sad but true. Bordeaux has become a luxury item extraordinary. Like most here there is a lot stored in the cellar to last my lifetime. My kids are looking forward to the day where they'll be able to sell the left overs. Great Bordeaux is silly money now! Some things don't change though. When I first started getting excited about Bordeaux in the early 90's my senior medical colleagues were echoing much of what you are preaching.They couldn't believe the price escalation and they resigned from the Commanderie de Bordeaux Chapter in Ottawa because prices were becoming ridiculous! They stopped buying classified Bordeaux and were looking for bargain wines. They couldn't believe the silly prices I was paying to build my cellar. (Sounds all too familiar). Who says history doesn't repeat itself!

I think things are all relative. Twenty years ago the Canadian dollar was in the tank costing $1.54 to buy a USD and $2.95 to buy a pound and the Euro $1.50 US. Travel costs were ridiculous but still did it and bit the bullet. Wine costs here were equally crazy and have continued to rise. With the dollar now worth more than the greenback life is easier. Economy in Canada relative to the rest of the world is cranking along and we haven't suffered like the rest of the world. Wages have risen and the Government has loosened the purse strings to the medical community so doctors certainly are making historic earnings to prevent them from running to the USA or elsewhere in the world. Even with all this the government is still whacking us for wine and hasn't passed the dollar escalation savings on to the consumer. There could be worse things in life!

Alex,

You shouldn't worry about being booted from the board but you should receive a reward for your wonderful analogy. Couldn't have said it better or drawn a more appropriate comparison. Many a bottle consumed has ended with sex. I can't recall a first growth resulting in a better orgasm than a good drinking everyday wine but I certainly can remember having too much of a good thing resulting in a less than optimal performance!

Danny

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Fri May 06, 2011 11:30 pm

dstgolf wrote:I can't recall a first growth resulting in a better orgasm than a good drinking everyday wine

The first and last word.

but I certainly can remember having too much of a good thing resulting in a less than optimal performance!

Never happened, but together with the first clause, funny as hell.

gremlins · Post by **gremlins** » Sat May 07, 2011 12:07 am

There will come a day when all the hardcore bordeaux drinkers who have grown up with WA will call it quit and cancel their subscription.

That would be the time where RP realised that being a real wine advocate he should have listened to the calls to hold back his ratings after en primeur.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 07, 2011 2:54 am

That is actually a pretty accurate statement, gremlins. There comes a point when it just doesn't make sense to subscribe to this crap any more. I subscribe to a lot of magazines. I read a lot of books. But in the past year I stopped subscribing to Astronomy magazine and Wine Spectator, longtime subscriptions for me. Why? Because I came to the conclusion that they just weren't relevant for me any more. They just aren't that good. I have plenty of other stuff to read in my limited amount of time in my daily life. I'm pretty much at the point where the Advocate is next on my list for elimination. Paris Review or Wine Advocate? I'm leaning towards Paris Review right now.

Bruins advance to the conferece finals for the first time since 1992, Hound. Life is good.

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Sat May 07, 2011 2:29 pm

Jim, I can totally relate to your overflowing frustration. Unfortunately, I really didn't start buying Bordeaux until the release of the 2000 vintage and I've never been in a financial position to go deep in 1st growth. At the time though I was able to backfill many vintages at not too outrages prices. Until recently I viewed Bordeaux as a good value among the third and fourth growths in comparison to what's happened in California. To my dismay the prices for even these lesser growths are now pushing $60-70 btl which is just an insane increase in just a couple of years.

My real dissapointment was the departure of Diageo & Estate from the Bordeaux market. When I first heard that news bells went off in my head that there was a real fundamental problem in Bordeaux if the largest importer of Bordeaux in the world was getting out. What I didn't realize at the time was the eventual far reaching impact at the consumer level. The 2007 was the last vintage they really marketed. Beginning with the 2008 vintage retailers are faced with having to source from a multitude of various importers which is leading to diminished availability, particularly of some of the smaller petite chateaux. Also, more importantly, it has contributed greatly to much higher prices since no other importer was willing to step in with enough leverage to keep some sanity to the pricing. Jim and I are seeing this in New Hampshire with the announced offering of the 2008's.

I wholeheartedly agree that after drinking more and more older Bordeaux and referring back to Parkers' notes, I've come to the conclusion that it is all total BS. You come to realize that certain chateaux house styles or communes appeal to you more than others and that impacts my buying decisions more than any BS review