2010 first growths out

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:00 am

Lafite, Mouton, Haut Brion, LMHB, Margaux are out at 600 euros *trade price* ie from château to merchant before the latter's profit margin, any subsequent intermediares' margins, or any sort of tax or duty.

Roughly speaking, that means a consumer price of at least 900 euros (more likely, 1 000).
For one 75 cl. bottle of wine.
That you need to age under proper conditions for 20 years.

I think I'll leave these wines to the Beautiful People, the Chinese, and investment funds.

Best regards,
Alex R.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:50 am

Ho-hum. First Growths have become irrelevant to me.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:29 am

I wonder how much the Koch brothers are going to buy.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:31 am

Bordeaux has become the product of the Koch-brother-types and other multi-billionaires. I'm proud of them. That's a noble thing to aspire to.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:39 pm

I feel good!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:42 pm

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:17 pm

Houndsong wrote:I feel good!

I knew that I would!
Dah-da-dah-da-dah-da-dah...

Well titled, Alex. OUT is RIGHT! Out of my league, out their minds, but...

I feel good!

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:29 pm

...and La Mission Haut Brion is out at $1025, blanc $1025, La Chapelle de la Mission $185 (all Zachys prices).

The only thing I can figure is that there's enough buyers that have inelastic demand (they purchase virtually regardless of price) that it makes sense to raise prices and make huge profits on lower sales. Or perhaps this is a game of chicken between producers and negociants.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:19 pm

Jon,

You are efrectively correct...

Ill be sticking to 97 Palmer. €130 as oppose to almost €250 for the 2010!!!!

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:54 am

JIm
Never met the Koch brothers but the 1ers Crus (not lafite) opened here at $S1,200 (about $US950).
Now, I can guarantee you that these are first tranche prices and in a few days they will be higher (maybe not LMHB).
Le Pavillion Rouge Margaux sold out in a few hours at $S218 - oh well.

I think I'm back to drinking Sociando Mallet and lesser St Emilions.
Actually I like them anyway.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:06 am

Didn't we have one of the Koch brothers show up here on BWE a while back? Or am I just imagining that.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:22 am

Jim - there was an associate of Koch's that had a wine authentication service with a website (that posted a couple of times). I don't recall seeing a Koch post; seems like a busy guy with varied interests.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:25 am

Ah ok that may have been what I was remembering Jon.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:41 am

You're thinking of Russell Frye. Good guy, he collects and disseminates articles on counterfeit wines at Wine Authentication.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:19 pm

HB out at €660 a bottle!

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:02 am

Latour at €780
Ausone at €1120

Makes Lafite look like a bargain.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:08 am

Cheval Blanc at €850 (09=€700)
petit Cheval at €162 (09=€108)
Yquem at €420 (09=€500+, 05=€450

) at last some common-sense... chapeau Chateau d'Yquem.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:25 am

Maybe Yquem should be commended.

But Cheval Blanc???

Honestly, I can somehow understand why tiny estates like Le Pin or growers with miniscule plots in f Burgundy charge an arm and a leg.

But Cheval Blanc????

The make over 185,000 bottles...

185,000 X 850 € = 157,250,000.

Well... I guest they needed someone to pay for their fancy new cellar!

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http ... 20&bih=806

I have one bottle of CB in my cellar, from the 95 vintage.
It's sure to be the last one I'll ever buy!

Best regards,
Alex R.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:37 pm

But Cheval Blanc, either phonetically or somehow, probably is a talisman in Chinese.

We should be researching:

Favorite colors.

Special numbers.

Images.

Sounds.

There must be many more chateau, some aspect of which can be sold to the Chinese as portentous.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:07 pm

Hasn't Cheval Blanc been pricing itself above the firsts for the last few years, even before the Chinese interest explosion? Or was that Ausone?

Alex, I'm not worried about you rushing out to buy more Cheval Blanc. I just don't want to see you drinking it out of a styrofoam cup in a fast-food burger joint.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:34 pm

...I'm assuming in 1961 half of the blend was Miles' despised merlot, no?

I have a half bottle left of '95 Cheval Blanc, Alex, it is a powerful but light on its feet beauty that will age for many years. A stunner.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:22 pm

He also despised Cabernet Franc!!

Alex, I wasn't commending CB, just stating a score!

The Chapeau was for Yquem... Doing the right thing. Not that it is cheap mind you!

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:37 pm

That's right, Alex, Miles' "pedestal" wine was made from the two grapes he despised. Sort of appropriate for his character, no?

Zachy's email just hit the inbox - they are offering the White Horse for a cool, round US$1500/btl. Not your father's Chevy!

As to Yquem ($750/btl from Zachy's) being "reasonable" - I'll steal the comment from another poster: That's like saying the guy standing under the Arc de Triomphe in ladies underwear is reasonable, but only compared to the butt naked guy abusing himself under the Eiffel Tower. They are both batshit crazy and should be avoided at all costs (and certainly at $750 and $1500/btl)!

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:46 pm

I think we should all sell our existing stock of Bordeaux... in tranches.

And I'm not kidding

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:53 pm

You know that is roughly $150 dollars profit per bottle for Zachy's!

I don't know taxes but based on what is normal in high tax Europe and travel, that is a big profit on futures.

Not only are you guys being buttered but you don't realise it.

Yquem are selling to negoc, who are selling to Zachy's at €420 a bottle. 05 release was €450.
Now it was never a good price, it is expensive and easy to pass on. But the 09 was almost €560 a bottle. For me that is savvy from Yquem, but I've only ever been able to afford the odd half bottle here and there so I'm terms of figures... I love Yquem and their "rational" Market strategy a lot.

Imagine if everyone had released at 05/ just below prices... We wouldn't be having a boycott now would we??

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:22 am

In Singapore, Haut Brion has been released at $S1300 (about $US1050) and they will only sell it to you if you also buy Clareance HB (the second wine).
Interesting approach to line forcing.
LMHB is $S1180 - interesting as the price for both is the same in Australia.

Now without compalining, the price of the first growths in Australia in $A was $120 a bottle for the 95 vintage.
Ant that was when the $A was worth about $US0.64.
So it would have been around $US75-80 plus freight costs.
So now Latour is $A2,000 (about $US2140) and Lafite is $A1900 (about $US 2040)
Pretty big hike I think.

I stopped buying 1ers Crus in the 2002 vintage.
By that stage there were about $A250 with Latour and Lafite slightly more.
For 2004, they were $A300 odd, though were more in 2003.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:41 pm

This is a seller's market with high demand and very inelastic and manipulated supply. Logically, a Bordelais in charge of a GC, would not bother with tranches in this market, he would price 80% of my production at a 25% discount to the competition and get rid of inventory. That should be enough to keep him in business for a decade or two. I guess the reason it is not happening is because competition is a dirty word in France, I definitely smell collusion, how do you spell c a r t e l?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:06 pm

"Buttered" - I like the expression, Jono! I can say that I know on which side my bread is buttered, and it ain't on the side of Bdx '10!

When first growths were $70-$150, I thought they were expensive but worth it. When they went over $200-300, I stopped buying. The last Lafite I bought was the '04 at $159.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:09 pm

Or Jacques, could it just be that the owner is not satisfied with "enough to keep him in business for for a decade or two," but holding out for even more? Spelled G R E E D? Actually I don't begrudge an owner the desire to get as much as the market will bear. I'm just no longer part of that market.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:29 pm

That is my position exactly David.
Why shouldn't the winemakers try to make as much as they can?
Fine with them. Just count me out.
They can try to make a gazillion dllars, and I can call for a boycott.
And the unrestrained greed in the world will continue on....

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 pm

The Red Sox dfa'd Mike Cameron this week. Someone commented he should do the right thing and give back the remainder of the $12 mm he's owed on his two-year contract. It's not Mike Cameron's fault the Sox threw $12 mm at him. It's not Lafite's fault there are buyers (or are there?) at $1,200 a bottle.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:41 pm

Very true, Hound. So whose fault is it then that millions of children live in starvation, that half the word doesn't have toilets, etc., etc., while the .120-hitting Mike Cameron is making $12 million? It must be somebody's fault, no? Is there any connection between the unprecedented greed in the "civilized" world and starvation in the Sudan?

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are worth billions, but also give billions to help end hunger. I may be wrong, but I'm not aware of the Koch brothers' efforts to help anyone other than their fellow corporate interests. So, like David said, everyone has the right to do what they want with their money. That's just going to be the way it is, until the world economy falls in to final and complete collapse. I predict it is going to happen in our lifetimes.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:01 pm

I've been practicing law for 26 years now. I've done thousands of bankruptcy cases. A lot of times when someone comes in for a bankruptcy they are often on edge. They're feeling guilty, they never thought this would happen to them, etc. Sometimes there are tears. This past week I had a couple new bankruptcy cases come in the office. One of them, a 70 year old woman, told me she wished someone would shoot Obama. The other one was bemoaning the fact that he was going to lose his home. At one point he blurted out: "If I just painted my skin black and put a rag over my head I probably wouldn't need to go bankrupt" -- the inference being, of course, that minorities who don't work are getting government help while a hard working guy like him has to struggle. I'm seeing things in my practice that I haven't seen in 26 years. There is an anger and despair out there that is getting pretty scary. It is rising, dramatically, to unprecedented levels. Something is going to give soon, I'm telling you. I truly believe it. There are just too many people living in unbearable poverty in the world for this situation to continue on forever.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:51 pm

Koch gives a lot of money to cancer research (wait for it)... because he's a cancer survivor... Read about Michele Bachmann's government hand outs? Farming and Medicaid-supported family businesses, gotta love the hypocrisy (a time honored tradition in DC to be sure).

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:22 pm

Jim, our positions are very similar. I do think there is a big difference between luxury items and essentials. $1500/btl for Lafite doesn't put me into high moral dudgeon. Lack of affordable drinking water, food, shelter and basic human rights does. Masses aren't going to riot over $1500 Lafite, but they might over lack freedom or of affordable food and housing or a job.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:18 am

What I don't understand, JIm, about poor souls being forced into bankruptcy like the ones you describe, is why they blame the minorities? If the country's resources are in the hands of the nation's wealthiest 400, it's not the minorities that are responsible for the "scarcity" of opportunity/resources. The resources are there, it's just that the 400 have cornered the market, so to speak.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:05 am

Bacchus,

Excellent points but I fear that you are dangerouly close to being summoned to a hearing by the House Committee on Unamerican Activities.

How *could* you forget the Protestant ethic that made America great?
And the fact that the rich *deserve* to be rich. It's their God-given right!

Alex R.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:26 am

Your points are excellent too, AlexR. I do, of course, realize that the rich deserve to be rich and that god has so favoured them. But then the poor sods coming into Jim's office shouldn't blame Obama, the minorities, or even the rich for their woes, but god since it is "he" who has given the nation's resources to the wealthy! Unless, of course, Obama is god (you'll notice that both words contain an "o"). Then he would indeed deserve the blame.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:26 am

Jim
The first objective must be to reduce or stop populaiton growth.
We have over 7 billion people in the world and most is in Africa and Asia.
Africa in particular is a resource dependent country (the west operates on different models of populaiton growth - I studied population ecology some years ago).
So population goes up and down with immediate resources just as it does with would animals (at least those no shot or crowded out by man).
I've seen some pretty bad poverty in the US as well - maybe bailing out banks gains more votes than stopping the poor dying from preventable diseases and living in the streets.

Bacchus,
I know you are being tongue in cheek, but please leave "god" out of it.
What also amazes me is that Obama gets so much blame for the long trail of shit left behind by others, not just George Bush but a lot of others.
You may be surprised to bknow that just about everyone outside the US sees US politics as a big corporate financed, self-indulgent joke.
If you don;t believe me, hop on a plane.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:29 am

I was being entirely tongue-in-cheek, Claudius2; just picking up on Alex2's (humorous) comment.