Wine list description, what's your take?

[William P]

So I want your opinions, I was at French restaurant in Monterey this weekend and these were on the wine menu:

2001 Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande - St. Julian.

2006 Les Tourelles de Longueville - Pauillac

Your impression from what is written, what is the first wine?

Next, is that proper description according to French rules or wine ethics?

I thought they had made some mistake, so I asked. The waitress (wife of the chef) became unglued. Well, I was presented with a generic St. Julian in large letters on the label and in the tiniest of typeset (5 point type) the statement, “bottled at the Ch. Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande”. She insisted that this was the proper way of describing the wine and not in the least bit misleading. Your thoughts.

[stefan]

Terribly misleading. If the wife of the chef became unglued when I asked such a question, I would leave and eat elsewhere. It is one thing for staff not to know; quite another to insist their idiocies are correct.

[Houndsong]

But, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the wine?

I take it you refused the "St. Julian" [sic]?

[William P]

I wanted a burg for the wife since it was our 35th anniversary, but I was interested by the pichon which is why I brought the MISTAKE to the waitress's attention.

[hautbrionlover]

I'm more than perplexed, since both Tourelles de LonguevIlle (the 2d label of Pichon Baron) and Pichon Lalande are Pauillacs. That's fraud, false advertising and/or just plain stupidity, whatever you want to call it. I'm with Stefan.

By the way, what was the restaurant's name?

[JimHow]

I believe those wines come from the St. Julian region of Pauillac. I've always said that Lalande is best when it tastes like a St. Julian.

[Houndsong]

Just curious, but assuming at least the bottle was on the level (i.e. actually juice from St. Julien bottled at PL) if highly deceptive, do the big boys (girls) like Pichon Lalande allow generic wine from other appellations to be bottled in their joints? Is this how they recover the cost of their bottling line? When your grand vin goes for $100 and the second for $40, what's the motivation for this? Don't many classed growths in fact sell off whatever doesn't go into the 1st or 2nd wine to be bottled somewhere else as generic Bordeaux? If that's the case why do a run of someone else's juice in your house? That does not compute, as a friendly robot used to say.

[William P]

Hound, I think they own a few acres in St. Julien and apparently they bottle and sell it. But I don't know if they do it every year.

[dstgolf]

I think William P may be onto it. It might be misleading.... intentionally,probably. I remember being in Caves Taillevant in Paris years ago and they had both a St Julian and Pauiallac under the Taillevant label. Both were grown and bottled at Pichon Longueville. I was told they had several rows of vines they grew especially for the restaurant,produced and bottled by the same. Brought several bottles of the 98 home and not the Pichon Lalande but still very good wine for less than 25% of the price. Still have one bottle of the Pauiallac left in the cellar. Maybe they have gone to a more commercial restaurant bottling recently? Unfair of the restaurant to advertise it as the real deal to the uninitiated!

Danny

[Houndsong]

Well, then the product is as advertised. If PL produces this wine from its own grapes it ought to stand fully behind it, not with microscopic type. Maybe the restaurant should change the wine list description to say St. Julien de Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande or something like that.

[William P]

Hound, I completely agree with your description. And while the description is accurate, I feel it is still misleading especially to the novice bordeaux drinker. A little knowledge will get you a second class wine. BTW the wine cost $91.00.

[Houndsong]

I hear you but ... If you are a novice but you recognize the name Pichon Lalande, which is not exactly household, you probably also know already a) the grand vin is a Paulliac b) it's a 2eme Cru Classe, c) somebody named May Eliane de Lencquesaing until recently was the proprietor d) insert next obscure fact here (location of vineyards next to ___________ Chateau? Usual cepage?

I hate fraud and hide the ball. People must be circumspect how they represent themselves, even when it's factually accurate. This goes for restarauteurs. We all know factually accurate statements can be misleading when appropriate context is withheld. On the other hand, need they go to lengths to say, "this is not Pichon Lalande, the Paulliac?"

Just to add, $91 is pretty nervy for what might be the 3rd wine(?) - perhaps to further obfuscate things?

[Tom In DC]

Well, it seems that the estate does indeed bottle wine from their property in St. Julien as an unclassified St. Julien (see thewinedoctor.com.)

$100 is about the lowest retail price I can find in the US for the 2001 2nd Growth Pauillac. I found retail offerings of the 2007 St. Julien in the UK for £25 or so, which makes a US restaurant price of $91 fall within the normal "2-3x retail" markup for wine. Based on the racing form, er, uh, vintage charts, the 2001 should be a better wine. Maybe it's just an obscure wine with decent bottle age that the restaurant is pleased to have on their list?