Forget Bordeaux futures

[DavidG]

Move to France:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/di ... arkets.xml

We've heard from Alex about these sales before. This particular article suggests that there is always plenty of top-end wine to stock the supermarkets.

[Bacchus]

Enlightening, to say the least. And I gotta confess to feeling a little ripped and ticked off!

[AlexR]

The next time you hear some say Bordeaux is overpriced, show them that article!

It so happens I went to a Foire aux Vins this afternoon at the Centre Leclerc in Saint-Médard-en-Jalles, a suburb of Bordeaux and bought the following:

2006 Ch. Arnauld, Ht. Médoc at 7.95
2006 Jean Faure, St. Emilion gd. cru at 17.90
2009 Pique Caillou, Pessac-Léognan (red) at 13.95
2009 Arnauton, Fronsac, at 9.95
2009 Séguin, Pessac-Léognan (red) at 19.95
2009 Roque Le Mayne, Côtes de Castillon at 8.90
2006 Haut Gramons, Graves (red) at 8.70
2005 Le Crock, St. Estèphe (owned by the Cuveliers of Léoville Poyferré) at 21.80
2006 Lamothe Bergeron at 9.50
2010 Chantegrive, Cuvée Caroline (Graves blanc) at 13.95
2009 La Dauphine, Fronsac at 14.95
2007 Hermitage, Texier at 29.50
2008 Larrivet Haut Brion, Pessac-Léognan (white) at 29.90
2006 Nuits St. Georges Premier Cru "Les Pruliers" from Gouges at 55.00
2009 Gloria, St. Julien - magnum - at 64.50

All prices in euros including tax.


Best regards,
Alex R.

[Claudius2]

Alex
A similar pattern is ocurring even in Asia.
A few times a week I get emails from SIngapore and HK based importers and negociants in France tregarding sales of famous labels and horizontals of various vintages at prices way below even indent prices.
Recently I've bought more 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 and 08s.
And I can get good deals on wines back to the 82 vintage.

When 05s are being discounted I do raise my eyebrows.

There is a lot of wine in the supply chain that is looking for homes.

[AlexR]

Claudius,

The distribution chain is weird and wonderful. And, above all, very complex and globalized...

"Below indent prices" may quite well still be above trade prices...

Selling at a very low margin, or even a loss, for vintages that have been panned is a very old practice.
If the négociant/importer/distributor does not buy, he "loses his place". He's therefore often prepared to take a hit in order to recoup losses when a more politically correct vintage comes along - and especially to maintain his allocation.

Some people have obviously been hurt by the financial crisis and are selling assets.

I don't say that the Bordeaux bubble can't burst. But it honestly hasn''t so far.

The 2011s will undoubtedly be sold for less.
Meanwhile, it's a fact that new consumers - many of them in China - are paying prices you or I would nevery pay. This doesn't explain everything, but demand has not yet shut off as my friends in the négoce tell me - even though they think some of the prices for grands crus are just plain silly!

All the best,
Alex R.

[JimHow]

Have any 2009s hit the shelves yet in the U.S.?

[Bacchus]

They don't even have the 2008s out up here, Jim. That's the problem with government run retailers. If they don't think they've sold enough of the earlier vintages, they'll just keep the '08s in the warehouse until they decide they've moved enough of the older stuff. That said, there will be a point when they feel the need to get the 08s on the shelves, and that's when it's possible that older vintages will end up on sale. And the government makes no distinctions between years when it makes those sorts of distinctions -- the liquor commission here is made up of ex-grocery store administrators, not wine lovers -- so there will be a point when the 05s will end up on clearance.

[Claudius2]

Alex
I would love to visit the negociants in Bordeaux and check out how much wine they have in their warehouses.

So far this week, I have had horizontals on 2008 right banks and then 2008 left banks.
Then many vintages of Pichon Lalande and of their second wine (Reserve Comtesse) - I think back to 86.

Last week got the same for 2006's (both banks) and horizontals of a few St Emilion estates.

So every week, I am getting offers at prices that are considerably below indent prices.
Hard to give a definite % as I don;t have all the old data but where I bought them previously and can re-buy them, the prices are about 15%-20% lower for the middle ranking wines on both banks.
Further, the volumes are surprisingly large - like 150 cases of one wine at any one time is up for grabs.

My point is that the marekt is NOT going to fall through the floor.
Never thought that since the 70s (and prices DID collapse then).
But the sheer volumes of unsold (to consumers) stock suggests that we can all expect more specials.
cheers
Mark

[Bacchus]

Claudius, can't help but wonder if you've posted any notes on those wines anywhere? I'd be particularly interested in your thoughts on the PLL, even it's 2nd.

[William P]

Anytime people say bordeaux is underpriced should look at the last ten years or any part thereof. It's about time the bubble is deflating if it is deflating.

[AlexR]

William,

It all depends on what you mean by the word "Bordeaux".

If you take it to mean great growths, you may be right. TIme will tell.

But the great growths represent maximum five percent of production.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[DavidG]

You're right Alex, but it is also true that a good deal of what we go on about here is related to that top 5%.

[JimHow]

Indeed. CNN and Fox don't spend their time talking about state legislatures and city councils, they spend their time on presidents and Congresses.

[AlexR]

David, Jim,

I hear you.
And my litany is not exactly new on BWE...
I got back on my hobby horse because I was under the impression that William was a relatively new forumite and point I made above, as you know, is very important to me.
There's a sort of injustice in condemning 95% of anything because of the actions of the other 5%.

However, the glamor and media attention are with the famous châteaux. Yes.

I can think of so many parallels though, about false impressions we (all) have that are based on non-representative examples...

Jim, as someone involved in local politics at one time, and perhaps still are, I was puzzled by your comment.
Sure, everyone's attention is riveted on the highest level, and lower levels take a back seat.
But isn't there a big difference between "being of lesser importance" and being "insignificant" or even "totally ignored"?

People who like music, books, wine, travel, etc. will necessarily be drawn to what recieves the most media attention.
But, don't you find that branching out, making your own discoveries, listening to your own appreciations more than anyone else's is the way to go when you really get into something?
Especially where pleasure and, dare I say, intellectual pursuits are concerned?
I use this word "intellectual" because fully enjoying the subtle charms of fine wines falls into that category IMHO.

All the best,
Alex

[Claudius2]

Bacchus
I went to a big 2006 tasdting several months ago and I like the wines more than previously.
Mid priced winers like Lagrange et al are very good at their price points.

I'm going to a 2008 ri8ght bank tasting on Saturday - must post notes later.

I did post notes on the 2001, 2 and 3 Pontet Canet a few months ago.
2002 came out the winner due to its overall balance.
2003 was surprisingly not showing as well as I thought - seemd a bit too plummy and stewed, and I can;t recall it tasting like that young - oh well.
Have 30 more to go!
The 01 was good but lacked a bit of mid palate density.

If you are interested in Pichon lalande, the only recent vintage I have tried is 2006 - very good without the density of top vintages.
Not a fan of the second wine. have had several vintages and I could not be bothered.

I tend to avoid drinking Bordeaux till it is about 10 years old, though must say the 06s are showing quite well now.