Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:43 pm

What is your choice for 2011 BWE Wine of the Year?

The past selections:

2000: 1996 Sociando-Mallet
2001: 1989 Lynch-Bages
2002: 1995 d'Yquem
2003: 1999 Haut Brion Blanc
2004: 2000 Pichon Baron and 2000 du Tertre
2005: 2000 Margaux
2006: 2003 Pontet-Canet
2007: 2002 Leoville Poyferre
2008: 2005 Burgundy vintage (protest vote)
2009: 1989 Lafite Rothschild
2010: 2005 Cantemerle

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:29 am

The easiest question I have been asked all year..............................2004 SMITH HAUT LAFITTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:58 pm

The best wine I had with another BWEr (Jacques) was Lafite 1995

My favourite wine at the SF convention was Latour 1990

But my nominal goes to:

Pichon Longueville Comtesse De Lalande 1996

There is a very strong case for this wine; for BWE formally to recognise its brilliance in the BWE hall of fame.

I had it several times this year - admittedly from halves/splits - and every time it has never short of brilliant and inspired.

At many BWE gathering, many which I have not attended, it has blown away the opposition.

Surely its time has come?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:36 pm

I'll second that nomination, Comte. Fabulous wine.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:23 pm

I third the nomination for the '96 PLL. Awesome wine, maybe the best young Bordeaux I've ever had (1996 vintage and younger)...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Excellent suggestions so far. I was going to nominate 2008 Leoville Poyferre but we already have a Poyferre in the list.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:30 am

Notf able to share some pleasures personally with BWE this year.

My go to wine of the year has been 2003 Lilian Ladouys Margaux for the Bordeaux lover in me. I have been working through 2 cases of this and it keeps getting better. Great value still,maybe a little too much oak but starting to become integrated much more so than a year ago. I'm sure this will continue to get better.

If a protest perennial favourite is allowed this year then somewhere along the line Mas La Plana has to be considered by BWE. This is a favourite Bordeaux style Spanish wine,great value and consistently reliable year in year out. You can always find late release vintages dating back into the early 80's for under $60 in Canada and usually under $50. I have been working through a case of 96 that has been fabulous and just finishing a bottle with a few T-bones off the BBQ(no snow guys in Ottawa!!). This has been a treat and blinded anyone would be hard pressed to not think this is classified growth Bordeaux. If you are not familiar with the wine give it a try.

Both wines have the right QPR along with a satisfying reliable food/sipping wine quality.

Danny

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:04 am

Danny.... Danny boy.... The Danster... Dan Machine....

I love ya man, you know that...

2003 Lillian Ladouys is NOT going to be the 2011 BWE Wine of the year....

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:47 am

Mas La Plana

i had the opportunity to snag some of the '04's for $20 here locally half off. If I come across another bottle I will check it out

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:24 am

No problem JIMBO! No offence taken. Never said Lilian Ladouys was going to win wine of the year just stating this is still reasonably, priced drinkable Bordeaux that I can afford to purchase in quantity and enjoy on a regular basis watching it evolve with time. Sometimes I have issues with choosing a wine based on a once in a lifetime experience. Yeah it may knock your socks off and everyone may go wow but how many of the BWE wines of the year are your go to wines. I don't want to get anyone to presume that I'm enamoured with Lilian Ladouys it's just that it's a wine I enjoyed at purchase and bought two cases following at a great price thinking I'd see how this evolves with time and have been gaining increasing enjoyment with time.

Danny

PS I'd take the 96 Mas La Plana hands down at this time over the 03 Ladouys. When I get to a reasonable restaurant it's not unusual to see Mas La Plana on the wine list and it will often be a bargain perennial go to wine.

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:14 am

Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....
by JimHow on Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:43 pm

What is your choice for 2011 BWE Wine of the Year?

The past selections:

2000: 1996 Sociando-Mallet
2001: 1989 Lynch-Bages
2002: 1995 d'Yquem
2003: 1999 Haut Brion Blanc
2004: 2000 Pichon Baron and 2000 du Tertre
2005: 2000 Margaux
2006: 2003 Pontet-Canet
2007: 2002 Leoville Poyferre
2008: 2005 Burgundy vintage (protest vote)
2009: 1989 Lafite Rothschild
2010: 2005 CantemerleJimHow
2011: 2004 Smith Haut Lafitte

I'm not going away

be afraid be very afraid!!!!

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:25 am

Guys
About time a right bank wine won.
So my vote goes to 2008 Beausejour DL.
And also the 08 vintage is half the price of 2010 thus actaully worth buying.

cheers
mark

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:45 pm

Claudius2 may have a point about the right side. Two right bankers I've enjoyed this year are the '04 Angelus and the '06 Figeac. Although it was early in the year that I had the Angelus, I recall it being a real beauty. A nicely structured wine but not nearly as tarted up as Angelus can be in some years. The Figeac, which I had more recently, has a lovely violet nose and is full of grace and balance. Gorgeous wine. Of the two, I think I'd give the edge to the Angelus. And being an '04, it's relatively affordable. (I recommend it in particular to RobertGoulet

)

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:26 am

Bacchus
I also think the WOTY should be freely available thus can't see the point of wines like 89 Lafite or whatever.
This a recent vintage makes a ot more sense.
Interestngly, we havew given the award once to Burgundy and NEVER to a right banker.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:43 am

This is going to be a tough one...

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:55 pm

I did not sample the 1996 Chateau Pichon Lalande this year, but agree it is a wonderful wine.

For me, the two wines I had that respond to BWE characteristics, would be the 2004 Chateau l'Église-Clinet and the 2006 Chateau Gruaud Larose. I agree that not that much BWE had these this year, but what a nice Pomerol still at an acceptable price. and a nice St-Julien, genuine to the claret definition.

Best for me in 2011, up to now, are the 1995 Chateau Rauzan-Ségla and 1996 Chateau Cos d'Estournel.

Nic

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:52 am

I think you're right, Chasse, it is indeed going to be difficult. While I think we should seriously consider a right bank wine, if not, I could certainly support either the 96 PLL (who wouldn't?) or the 06 Gruaud Larose. Of the two, I think I'd tip for the GL not because it's necessarily the better wine, but because it's more readily available and better priced. It also admits to being a claret rather than trying to be a box of "Runts" or a stick of cotton candy. But I think we might also want to consider the 2006 Domaine de Chevalier Rouge. While it might not be at its peak yet, it's balanced, not at all over the top, reflects the typicity of Grave, and has a nice mouth feel. All and all it's a beautiful claret. It is also readily available and affordable.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:00 pm

Perhaps there should be two BWE wines of the year. You could have one category for something that's available now in retail (or was recently) and a "Masters Class" that would encompass wines that BWErs are just now bringing forth from their cellars, e.g. an 89 Lafite or some other classic, more mature wine. I know I'm sounding like Bud Selig, and it's a slippery slope from two to a field of 64.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:21 pm

I vote for : anything other than 2010 BX! Just because of the prices!

Seriously... I'd say right bank 94. Drinking so well now! Perhaps 94 Gazin??

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:30 pm

We need an AP Poll, Coaches Poll, and BCS (Bordeaux Chateau Status) rankings. But we need to pick a winner before Jan 9.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:08 pm

Jono
I actaully really like the 94 Gazin - one of the top wines of the vintage - but surely it will be a rare wine to find now thus why not pick a 2008??
Incidentally, I just bought a case of the 08 on clearance and it is a very nice wine - typical spicy, meaty Pomerol fruit.

I'm pushing for 08 as I think it offers a few advantages - price/value and availability, that should be criteria.

And I'm still pushing for the poor neglected right bank to get the nod this year.
Maybe because I'm getting older that I like the wines more and more.
The right bank is not a poor relation to the Medoc and Pessac Leognan.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Mark
Just because there has never been a right bank, it doesnt mean it is the right choice this year. I agree that right banks should not be seen as poor relations to left banks (nothwithstanding the proliferation of obscenely spoofulated creations on the right bank these days) and I am sure Jim, our BD, will choose a right bank one year. But the criteria for choosing is up to him - remember this board is not a democracy it is a disctatorship.

As for the PL 96, it is hardly unavailable nor more exclusive than any wine ever to have been awarded this accolade - there have been four FG or FG equivalents in the last 11 years. The BD in particular and other people on this board have had a special affection for 96 left banks, recognising their quality ahead of anyone else - in similar fashion to the way board members recognised 2002 left banks to be very good rather than mediocre as was commonly perceived at the time. The 2002 Leoville-Poyferre duly won the award in 2007.

If it is to be a right bank this year I would advocate something from either the 1998 vintage (again a vintage that was recognised early on BWE) or the 2001 vintage, which is perhaps the most under-rated vintage on the right bank. Belair 1998? Or Figeac or La Conseillante 2001? Gazin is an estate which has improved a lot and deserves to be recognised. It was very good in 2004 and I should imagine in 2008 as well. I agree with Robert that 2004 Smith Haut Lafite is a brilliant wine.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:02 pm

This could get ugly. I sure hope so.

JonoB · Post by **JonoB** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:28 pm

If it were an 08 right bank, the La Conseillante and VCC are better than Gazin IMHO. :p

Perhaps 08 as a vintage? Underrated, classically varied in quality (making it fun to discuss) and relatively good value for the quality!!

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:22 pm

If we're going for 08 because it is underrated, classical, affordable, and because the left side is (warning, pandering to the BD ahead) very 02L like, I'll pitch in for Haut Bailly and/or Domaine de Chevalier. Both rise above the fray for the vintage.

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:26 am

I agree with Robert that 2004 Smith Haut Lafite is a brilliant wine

Yes, Comte brings some love! The SHL was being brushed over, I'm not going to let it happen!!! The streets will be filled with the blood of the non-believers!!!!!!

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:29 am

I recently tasted an off-bottle of the '04 SHL and you know what? It was still a kick ass bordeaux. Excuse my french

Thats how good this wine is.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:20 am

The reason I think it's going to be tough is because there haven't been any really popular wines or even vintages in a long time. Where are the PCs and other favorites of recent years that almost everyone seemed to agree on?

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:53 am

Comte
The 96 PL has been available for 13 years.
I am not cirticising it - I bought a case on indent though have to say the last bottle I had was a complete shocker - totally brett affected.

I cannot see the logic in a 15 year old wine getting this award.

I am also arguing in favour of the right bank as the quality of the wines in 2008 is very good and prices are affordable, the wines are easily available and can be enjoyed now or kept for a decade or more.

You often use the term "spoofilated" in relaiton to wines, particularly right bank.
Sorry but I find that term silly and almost offensive.
You use it as a way of describing what you see as modern wines.

having drunk Bordeaux now for nearly 40 years (OK I'm getting old...) the quality of Bordeaux (all areas) has increased out of sight.
Far too many St Emilions for example were thin, watery, green and often just plain boring three or four decades ago.
Many of these wines has been transformed into excellent wines and if you think there is something wrong with that, too bad.

If there are some wines that do not suit your taste, buy those that do.
But please stop being so arrogant and cynical about wines you do not like.
For exmaple, I can't handle some Australian shiraz that has 18%+ alcohol and is more like road tar to me.
But that does not mean they are crap. I will happily recommned them (eg Greenock Creek) for people who want something different.
For years, I have argued that the overall quality and variety of wine available has never been better.
Thankfully there is a range of styles thus we can all find wines we like.
Similarly, I know lots love sav blanc and I don't like it one bit.
Yet the market disagrees and so be it.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:15 am

As much as I love the '96 Pichon Lalande and would love to see it named WOTY, there is something to be said for a wine that is more affordable and more likely to be in the cellar of a number of our BWEs. A wine for the 99%, and one we might actually have in quantity and which might be approachable for drinking at BWE12:

2004 Smith Haut Lafitte

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:24 am

I'm also looking back at the 2008 "protest" selection of the '05 Burgundy vintage when our BD was in high dudgeon over the nosebleed prices (and tannins) of the '05 Bordeaux then arriving on retailers' shelves. Prices haven't exactly retreated. Most of us have just adjusted our buying patterns.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:06 pm

The Benevolent Dictator is leaning towards one of the recommendations in this thread....

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:23 pm

Jim
And?????

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:37 pm

Let me guess, it's the 2003 Lillian Ladouys!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:10 pm

There are still eleven days left in the year!

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:42 pm

Claudius2 wrote:Comte
The 96 PL has been available for 13 years.
I am not cirticising it - I bought a case on indent though have to say the last bottle I had was a complete shocker - totally brett affected.

I cannot see the logic in a 15 year old wine getting this award.

I am also arguing in favour of the right bank as the quality of the wines in 2008 is very good and prices are affordable, the wines are easily available and can be enjoyed now or kept for a decade or more.

You often use the term "spoofilated" in relaiton to wines, particularly right bank.
Sorry but I find that term silly and almost offensive.
You use it as a way of describing what you see as modern wines.

having drunk Bordeaux now for nearly 40 years (OK I'm getting old...) the quality of Bordeaux (all areas) has increased out of sight.
Far too many St Emilions for example were thin, watery, green and often just plain boring three or four decades ago.
Many of these wines has been transformed into excellent wines and if you think there is something wrong with that, too bad.

If there are some wines that do not suit your taste, buy those that do.
But please stop being so arrogant and cynical about wines you do not like.
For exmaple, I can't handle some Australian shiraz that has 18%+ alcohol and is more like road tar to me.
But that does not mean they are crap. I will happily recommned them (eg Greenock Creek) for people who want something different.
For years, I have argued that the overall quality and variety of wine available has never been better.
Thankfully there is a range of styles thus we can all find wines we like.
Similarly, I know lots love sav blanc and I don't like it one bit.
Yet the market disagrees and so be it.

Hi Claudius

When I read this post I thought that you had taken Houndsong’s bait to make this thread ugly and confrontational.

After all I was merely questioning the logic of your position – the notion that just because a right bank has never won this award, it is sufficient grounds to give it to a right bank this year. The only reason you give is that 2008 is a good vintage on the right bank and these wines are relatively good value. But you could say that about a lot of 01s, 02s, 04s and 06s from both banks. You have to do better than that. I would suggest that you be more specific and nominate a wine with a well reasoned rationale, rather than embarking on an incoherent diatribe when people challenge your position.

For someone who claims to have been an academic for 23 years, and who has been drinking Bordeaux for nearly 40 I find the feebleness of your argument quite puzzling. Mind you I remember you saying that if you are living in the US and you are not rich and famous you should kill yourself. Not a very intelligent line of reasoning, especially from a so-called academic. Yes it is tough times in America and Europe, and the Australian economy is doing relatively well. But that is down to pure luck – a once in a century commodity boom. Australia is doing well for the same reason Brazil is doing well. Be careful when you piss on others when they are down. They might do the same to you one day.

When it comes to Pichon Lalande 1996 you dismiss it because you had a bad experience with it recently. It’s called bottle variation. Everyone else on this board that I know has loved it. You cannot see the logic of a 15 year old wine winning this award...logic according to whom? Just you. Lafite won the award in 2009 aged 20. Don’t you understand that most classed growth Bordeaux from good vintages needs at least 15 years to show its best. As far as this wine is concerned it is still on the upslope.

Then you accuse me of saying that modern wines are ‘spoofulated’ – but I have never argued that all ‘modern’ wines are ‘spoofulated’ – you may find term offensive but I don’t know of anyone else who does, and I find it less offensive than the words ‘yank’ and ‘pom.’ I agree with you that winemaking has improved and vintages generally have become better...you mention the older right banks, which you described as being ‘thin, watery, green and boring’... but then I find it curious that you profess to preferring Pavie from the 1980s to the Perse-era Pavies.

When it comes to ignorance and arrogance on this board, you are in a class of your own Mark.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:51 pm

Can we scoot by this confab without mentioning the 05s? I know they're not everyones favourite, but the vintage is, after all, the greatest of the decade, or the century, or whatever your favourite timeframe is! And I must confess that I don't mind it as much as some. So, if we were to have only one 05 on the short list, could it possibly be Ch.Lascombes? Affordable, available, and a really fine wine.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:40 pm

Now just a second. I know how to use the "quote" tool as well as anyone and when I mean to refer to a particular item in a thread I generally do so unless it's already apparent from the context. My call for this to get "ugly" should not be understood to mean "personal." It means, gentlemen, to argue your utmost for your principals (yes, not principles, but like in a duel, the participants and not the seconds) and to generate some controversy of the good kind.

By the way, the announcement of Kim Il Jong's death reminds me that the last time someone took goodnatured humor for personal offense was in some context where I and I think the BD made merry of Kim's like of Bordeaux. Let's not let this happen again.

Ramon_NYC · Post by **Ramon_NYC** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:20 pm

1994 Pape Clement Blanc

Had it 3 or 4 times during past 3 or 4 BWE events in NYC and, aside from the one time when it was deemed corked, it was the real stud amongst the bunches of sissy reds, from Left and Right, that we happen to have had with it.

robertgoulet · Post by **robertgoulet** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:59 am

Yikes, what is happening to this thread?