2003 Ch Pontet Canet Pauillac revisited

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:15 pm

I am wondering about this wine.

The last time I had it was about 6 months ago and it was really quite awful.
It was burnt, with harsh, dry tannins, prune like fruit and no acid.

So as I have a lot of this left, I pulled the cork on another.
Been in the wine fridge at 15C since.

The colour is very youthful red/black, mahogany red at the rim.
Nose. Hmmm. How do you describe it?
There is evident oak - cedar, woodsmoke, slight tarry characters and quite sweet and forward black fruits, like cassis, blueberry and currant.
The palate is big - more like a Barossa shiraz with lots of viscosity and long legs.
It is full bodied, with a nutty oak character o the front palate, but lots of ripe and rich black fruits. A touch of vanilla and spice.
So what to make of it?
Jennifer and I both liked it. It is modern and rich, but tastes noting like most Pauillac wines.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but the downside is that it comes across as a bit amorphous and simple.
Okay, it is still young but I find the aftertaste to be a worry. Nutty, sawdusty oak seems to dominate and the tannins are a bit dry to me.

So it is not a great wine.
Nice to drink but frankly, if I want a wine like this I can buy a lot of Australian cab blends that I actaully think taste better.
The wine seems to lack the balance I want in Bordeaux and I would not buy it again. Happy to drink it but the 09 Clinet leaves it for dead.

I may be a bit harsh - it tastes MUCH better than the last bottle but it is a long way from a great wine.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:52 pm

Haven't tried any of mine yet. And from your report, Claudius, I think I'll just leave them to sleep.

Funny how 03 is; so variable. In contrast to what you've found with the PC, I found the 03 PLL to be quite fresh. Lovely drink actually.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:15 pm

Interesting note, claudius.
i'm curious, what kind of Bordeaux do you like?
Do you have a favorite appellation, vintage, estate, style of wine?

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:56 pm

This is worrisome, especially when you couple it with Ramon's doubts about the 02.

Mark, in what respect do you find it different from a typical Pauillac? It's been a while since I had one and I thought it was pretty much closed down a few years ago.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:42 pm

Sounds like Pontet Canet sucks! Alfred Tesseron is overrated! I think he needs to go back to putting his wines in regular sized bottles!

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:52 pm

If he does that, will he lower his prices?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:55 pm

He's just a Mouton wannabe, I tell you!

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:55 pm

I think it's pretty much true what that blogger said. Previous greatest vintages ever pale in comparison to the latest greatest. As a corollary, a 95 point wine ain't what it used to be.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:06 pm

Saying Pontet Canet sucks is like Chevy Chase in the swimming pool saying Christi Brinkley is ugly.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:39 pm

I've had the 2003 Pontet Canet twice and both times it was at least very good, but seemingly somewhat subdued/shutdown. Not sure if it will ever live up to HWSRN's 95 pt rating, but that's the 64-thousand dollar question for most of 2003 Bordeaux.

I didn't used to like Bordeaux when young in the olden days, so let's give these more time before giving up. Given my cellar, I look forward to posting notes in 10-15 years about how these have developed. I only hope HWSRN is paying attention still so I can either congratulate or excoriate him!

William P · Post by **William P** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:32 pm

I understand there is no universal palate. That the same wine can taste differently from different bottles. That not all people like the same styles. I've had the 2003 PC about 5 times since its release. Yes, I like them young and old. It's also true, my wine acumen pales in comparison to most on the board. My take is, it's a excellent for 2003. My bet is it will mature nicely.

Being from a hot year, it has a heavy weight and low acid. It is a beast that needs time. It has a moderate dose of wood, that, I think will integrate. It is not a termite wine, at least not to me. I don't find the roast that some complain about in the 03s. I understand that the vintage profile makes it untypical, but find it has enough structure for the future. The tannin are aggressive though this appears to be a Tesseron trait (see 1996, 2000, 2005). While a big wine (especially weightwise), I do find "Bordeaux" in the bottle.

I can appreciate that this is not for everyone.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:59 pm

A great sage once said: "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life."

When a man is tired of Pontet-Canet, he is tired of Bordeaux.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:47 pm

But what if you love the 04, but aren't so fussy on the 03? Can you still count yourself a Bdx-person?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:07 pm

A great sage told me just last week in Chappaqua NY: "There are no bad vintages of Burgundy."

There are no bad vintages of Pontet-Canet, just different. Like children, we love all of them equally.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:17 pm

This is why Jim is the ideal Benevolent Dictator and why losing him to politics would be a blow to the wine world. His Talismanic-Oracleness that's not just infallible, but impregnable.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:53 pm

''With great powers, come great responsabilities''.

At the moment, the 2003 Chateau Pontet-Canet is like Peter Parker when he was using his new powers to earn money only... In a few years, that 2003 Chateau Pontet-Canet will use his powers in a better way.

I'm drinking a glass of the 2009 Francis Coppola Red Label Zinfandel, and while having low acidity and tannins, it is not that bad under Orlando's sun... It is missing ''freshness'' like some ladies around the pool, but is generous in another way...

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:11 pm

BWE is my LBJ ranch, Hound.
As yet another great sage by the name of DavidG once said about the 2003 Pontet-Canet (paraphrasing): Don't judge this wine before its time. I have found the 2003 northern Medocs distinctive, but by no means exotic, over the top, etc., etc. On the contrary, the 2003 Medocs we had at the Blanquito tasting a couple years ago were all very good to brilliant. They were in no way any sort of major abberation from that which makes Bordeaux great. They are going to be great wines for 15-30 years.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:23 pm

Nicklasss wrote:under Orlando's sun... It is missing ''freshness'' like some ladies around the pool, but is generous in another way...

Nic

Florida: where the old people go. To visit their parents.

I've had a couple of '03 Pontet Canets young. Lots of fruit and stuffing and oak. Not old school and I can see where they wont satisfy someone who likes the sterner style and likes to drink them young, but I wouldn't write them off. They may well turn into "real" Bordeaux with age. I say give 'em at least another 5 years and see where they are.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:25 pm

Not that I've ever had the '47 Mouton but I predict that someday old timers will compare the 2003 Pontet Canet to the '45 and '47 Moutons of yore. What is HWSRN rating the 2003 Pontet Canet these days, 99+, if I'm not mistaken? Someday, fifty years from now, they'll be calling this wine "unctuous" and "port-like," like those coveted Cheval Blancs and Moutons of the forties....

Ramon_NYC · Post by **Ramon_NYC** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:02 am

The great sage definitely must not have had the boring 2002 Pontet Canet. Obviously, great sage never had a Christy Brinkley … maybe a Chevy Chase.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:08 am

Bloody hell guys,
The discussion has gone from sublime to ridiculous pretty fast.

Now, when I started sipping this wine, it tasted really nice in a new world, rich sweet fruit, lots of oak style.
Yet as I drank it, I found my palate was getting a bit bored with it.
Yes there is masses of ripe fruit, dusty, spicy and vanilla oak, but I can drink a Voyager Margaret River Cab Merlot that does that better, with more balance and more distinct cassis fruit. And about a third or quarter the price (in Australia) or half in Singapore.

So I am not sayng the wine is crap.
Not at all. It is a nice drink but I just did not find it to be complex, enthralling or enticing.
Let's make a point of difference. The Clinet 09 was much better and you really wanted to drink every drop. It hit your senses and says "drink me".
The Burgundies I drank over the weekend (with three others) say to me - "I taste better with each sip. I will show you my peacock's tail!"

Maybe in another decade the PC 03 will say: "See I was fooling you. I am great, I wasn't ready to show you in 2011 or 2012.."

Yet I am unconvinced that the wine has the component parts for greatness.
The Clinet I use as a yardstick as it was so young - literally blew in off the container ship the day before.
Yet it was strutting its stuff.
The 03 PC will settle in that the overt, grainy wood characters (a bit much now) will integrate but the fruit is too ripe for moi and I wonder if the wine will end up falling over before it develops complexity.

Jim,
I have always loved the right bank wines for the unique flavours they offer and the wines of Margaux and St Julien for fragrance, finesse, balance and complexity.
The top wines of Pauillac and St Estephe for their power, balance of component parts and dark fruit characters, that soften with age to show a range of flavours unlike new world wines.
I think as I am gettng older, I am liking right bank wines more - though they are so much more consistent and more interesting these days than 30-40 years ago.

Since being in Singapore, I have drunk lots of Australian whites and white Burgs, thugh in recent months, despite the hot weather, I have felt more like reds and it has been interesting as they do not taste the same here as they did in the Aust winter.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Claudius (Mark?) - I'm not disagreeing with you in any major way with your report on the current bottle of '03 PC that you tasted. You liked it better than your last go. Bottle variation? Palate variation? Settling down over time? We'll see what happens in another 5, 10, 15 years. And I'm delighted to hear your enthusiasm for the '09 Clinet. I bought those en primeur, way before the point-induced price explosion.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:32 am

David
Yes mark is the real name.
Claudius was a beloved blue persian cat. Unfortunately gone now.
And everyone thought he has an eccentric emperor..

A few points.
I last tried the 03 PC with the 01 and 02.
The mini-vertical tended to show the differences more than the individual quality.
The 01 was tannic but a bit hollow in the middle; the fruit was there but not dense enough.
The 02 was more acidic than the other two, with medium weight fruit and nice balance.
Some here said it was boring, but I have had it 3 times now and never found it boring. Just not flashy or powerful (like the Clinet was!)

The 03 on that occasion tasted too hot, with prune or over-ripe flavours described in Australia as "dead fruit".
The other thing I noticed was the hard, slightly bitter after-taste.
Seriously, it tasted like a cab blend from a lesser Australian region in a hot year.

Now, the bottles were next to each other in the OWC, and had all been in a wine fridge at 15C degrees since arrival.
So maybe that bottle was not representative but I have to say, the back palate continues to be a worry.
I have noticed this in other 03s - the tannins are dry and harsh, and I wonder if this will ever change.

In any event, I have sent off ALL my remaining 03s in Australia - inlcuding Burgundies - to auction.
I was going to keep Montrose and Domaine Rousseau Chambertin but thought better of it.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:24 am

Interesting, Claudius. That's why I've always said Pontet Canet begins at 04.

Like you I have expressed my concerns about the 03 vintage. I have, however, come across some that I think have good acid levels and nice freshness, PLL amongst them. Just wondering if you've tried the 03 Giscours.

That said, I was wondering about your increasing interest in right bank wines. I've always preferred the left, and have almost no experience with the right (real men don't drink merlot

). However, always wanting to experiment, especially where wine is concerned, if you were to come up with a top 10 list of good but affordable right bank wines that you might recommend to someone interested in the range of what's available on that side, what would be on that list? "Affordable" doesn't have to mean cheap, although there's nothing wrong with cheap. But chateaux like Ausone, Le Pin, Petrus, etc., don't need to be on the list.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:58 am

Bacchus
Maybe I am just getting older!
There are plenty of affordable wines in 09 in the right bank.
A few suggestions:

La Confession
La Fleur Cardinale
Gazin
Barde haut
Grand Pontet
Clos Oratoire
L'arossee
La Dominique
Monbousquet
Fombrauge
Larcis Ducasse

Now some of these are not wines I'd generally drink but in 2009, the relatively cheap wines shine. I often buy wines such as Figeac, Beausejour DL and Becot, Clos Fortet, Pavie Macquin etc.
So hunt around for any tastings as well.

Howeverthe prices are too high and

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:43 pm

Not that I place any great faith on cellartracker notes, but the preponderance of notes the past 3 months look to be different bottles of 2003 Pontet Canet than yours, Mark. They seem to point to a bottle coming out of its dumb phase that is clearly outstanding with some Bordeaux characteristics and without the over ripe flaws. I should try a bottle soon if I can unbury one.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:38 pm

Count me in as a big fan of 2003 Pontet Canet. IMO, it was the first truly strong Pontet Canet since Alfred took over in 1994. However, starting in 2005, it became a new ball game. 2005 and younger are much better wines.

peroivind · Post by **peroivind** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:18 pm

Personally I really like the 2004 PC (and younger). Had one a week ago and it had evolved a lot over the last year. The tannins had softened quite a lot and the dark fruit was going strong. Beautiful wine with a superb balance. Should improve more over the next years. IMHO.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:19 pm

Welcome to BWE, peroivind, and I too liked the 2004 PC a lot, I bought a case.

pomilion · Post by **pomilion** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Welcome, peroivind. Ditto on the 04, I bought a bunch after it showed really well at a PC dinner in late 2010. I think it's almost as good as the 03. Agree with Jeff that PC's wines took a step up starting in 2005.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Mark I agree that a lot of '03s are hot/alcoholic. The Pontet Canst is very ripe but it doesn't cross the too hot threshold for me. I still don't know if it will develop classic Bdx secondary or tertiary characteristics but I have enough faith to keep holding mine.

peroivind · Post by **peroivind** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:04 am

Thanks for the welcome

What do you think of the 2001 PC? I have a few on magnum inn the cellar, but have not opened one yet.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:33 am

We had the 2001 at a 1994-2004 vertical with Alfred Tesseron in NYC a few years back. My recollection is that it was a softer version of PC, consistent with the character of the left bank vintage from that year.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:51 am

2003 will continue to provide us with lots of things to talk about. It's because there's such a range of quality and style in 2003. A uniformly great vintage is wonderful to drink but a bit boring to talk about (e.g. "Yet another perfect 200x").

My general impression (and I've tried a lot of 2003 BDX) is that either these wines are in a bad phase OR I will never really like 2003 across the board. But there are some wonderful 2003s for those who like riper vintages.

Based on the Tesseron vertical, my favorite Pontet Canet is the 1996, with the 1989 very good and the 2000 showing lots of potential. I remain optimistic that the 2003 will come around, but recently hasn't shown as impressively as it did on release. I haven't had a P-C vintage post-2004, FWIW.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 am

Here are my favorite Pontet Canets between 1994-2004 in order of preference (I too have never had a post-2004 PC):

1996
2003
1995
2000
2004
1994
1998
1997
2002
2001
1999

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:21 am

Funny, I've never tried a post 04 PC either. I've got some 06s, but have yet to try them. I'm thinking about picking up some 08s primarily because it's may be the last affordable vintage.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:30 am

I too bought a case of the 2006 PC without ever having tried one.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:05 pm

I am willing to defer to the 03 vintage generalizations of others. Based on those generalizations, which I accept, I would not expect to like the vast majority of 03s I would come across. The reality has been just the opposite. Either I'm extremely lucky (hardly possible) or I don't know my own palate (quite possible) but I have had such a favorable impression of the 03s I have drunk (not a large sample for purposes of declaring on the vintage) that I have sought out a few more recently. The Bourgneuf was a classic example, as Pomerol was supposed to be one of the worst-faring areas overall in 03 (I think), yet the wine had good acidity, a nice bite, and was not flabby, blowzy (blousy?), alcoholic or whatever. Maybe it's just that Bourgneuf had not at that time caught the "+"ization wave and just did what they always did and threw a bunch of stems in to ferment to boot.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:49 am

Guys
I will open anohter 03 PC in March next year and monitor the change.
The last as I have said several times was much better than the previous bottle (which was pretty awful) but c'est la vie.
Mark