It begins: Bdx deep discounts

[DavidG]

All that wine in the system has to go somewhere, doesn't it?

Recent sale email from J Buckley. Not a "great growth" but this sounds like a decent deal if you're in the market for a cases of inexpensive Bordeaux:

2006 Chateau Reignac
Bordeaux Superieur
PCP on 12-Bottle Case: $11.66 per Bottle!
$139.99 per Case
JB Regular: $29.99

Does California have anything similar at <$12/btl?

[JonB]

David - I'm not a regular follower of this Chateau to know the pricing, but I did buy a few of the 2005 Reignacs for $13 each off the shelf, so I'm less surprised by the "special pricing" on the 2006 than I am by their regular price, which seems high.

Still, I think many 2010s and 2011s will likely be discounted if they reach US shores, and many more will be sold through discount distribution channels such the the French hyper markets.

I wasn't even remotely tempted to buy 2011 Pontet-Canet at $100 (RP93-95).

[JimHow]

I need to see more. Seems to me Bordeaux pricing is still quite robust from a seller's perspective. The last time we saw a true "blowout" was with the 2002 vintage, when some unbelievable bargains were to be had.

[Houndsong]

I was reluctant to click on this topic. I keep saying "no mas" and the last thing I need to see are genuine blowouts on either chateau I'm fond of or ones I've never had - meaning them all.

[JimHow]

Back in 2005 we were seeing things like 2002 Haut Bailly and 2002 Leoville Poyferre for $25, 2002 Pichon Baron for $35, 2002 Lafite for $100, etc....

We will never see that again.

[Houndsong]

Too funny. I happen to be traveling on business (a very rare occurrence) and just checking my email - my wife has forwarded me a "Bordeaux Blowout" email from Internet Wines asking if there's anything we should buy. Geez.

[JimHow]

Of course you are going to tell her YES!!!

[Houndsong]

I have to see something I want first. Unfortunately, I do see something, a wine our sometimes DCWINO says he mistakenly guessed blind was Mouton I think (or maybe it was Latour). That would be good enough for me. Also there is a wine I am somewhat curious about - Cadet Piola - in a good vintage (2000).

[DavidG]

Back in 2005 we were seeing things like 2002 Haut Bailly and 2002 Leoville Poyferre for $25, 2002 Pichon Baron for $35, 2002 Lafite for $100, etc....

We will never see that again.

Very true, but I do expect to see a broad range of '10s & '11s coming in at 40-50% off. Of course it's all relative, so while some may be blowouts they might still not be bargains. Ah for the days of $15 (before my time) -$40 first growths. And 25-cent gas...

[Jay Winton]

I just ordered a few more bottles of 2009 Chateau Macard-Bordeaux superieur-for $11 delivered from WTSO. Excellent QPR. Even better, WTSO will deliver to my house in MD!

[DCWINO]

I have to see something I want first. Unfortunately, I do see something, a wine our sometimes DCWINO says he mistakenly guessed blind was Mouton I think (or maybe it was Latour). That would be good enough for me. Also there is a wine I am somewhat curious about - Cadet Piola - in a good vintage (2000).

It was a GJE double blind session held in Restaurant Laurent in Paris. I thought it tasted like a pinot. The wines tasted were 2001 Bordeaux including the Petrus and FGs. The tasters included Michel Bettane, Bernard Burtchy and other well-known wine professionals. Initially none of us thought we were tasting Bordaux. There is a few reasons that caused me to state this which I rather not discuss. I rated the 01 Reignac at the top.

Reignac makes exceptional wines especially considering the price. The palate displays impressive concentration, sweet fruits and nice length. The nose typically shows red fruits and dark chocolate, more right bank characteristics. Tasted blind, I usually rate between 93-89 and often better than classified growth.

[Claudius2]

Guys
I have posted several notes over the last two years which state quite clearly that the negociants, ccoourtisans and some estates in Bordeaux are flooded with back vintages.
Sure they can sell out of top vintages quickly (well, even that is debatable) but how many herre have actually bought 2007 for example?

Now there are a handful of Singapore and HK based importers I deal with reguarly, and actually know them quite well as they invite me to tastings and actually seem vaguely interested in my views. Despite the fact I import some wines directly.

So virtually every day I get at least 2 emails offering specials including back vintages.

So over the last week, I received 2 emails for long lists of Bordeaux estates and vintages from 1996 to 2006.
I actually bought some wines from 1996, 2000, 2004, 2005 and 2006 quite cheaply.

A competitor then had a "direct from the domaine" sale of 2006 left bank wines. Includes firsts and super seconds.
This follows a series of several left bank sales of 2006, everything from Ausone and Cheval Blanc to petits chateaux.

I have also just this week received verticals from several properties including Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande, D'issan, GPL, and several others.

Then I received a big list of 2007s including first growths all at heavily discounted prices but few are moving and I imagine the next list will be cheaper!
These wines were a hard ask to sell and after recently having been in France (got back 2 weeks ago) they are emerging on restaurant wine lists and were commonly on supermarket shelves (interestingly, the french seem to have less regard for vintage than the export markets).

The 2006s have been consistently disccounted for the last 2 years and when they sell out here, more container loads follow.
And I have bought several estates as I am finding it to be a nice vintage. Not a powerhouse, dark fruited vintage like 05 but more in the mould of say 1985.

So my point is that there is no end to the wine blowing in, and the mailer says "only 120 botttles" and next week another 240 or whatever of the same wine blow in, and so on.

Must admit when I get mailers for "the great 2005 sale" which I have had several times I shudder to think of how many other vintages are being left behind.
I still rate 2005 as the best vintage I have ever tried for Burgundy and one of the best 3 or 4 for Bordeaux (1961, 82, 09 are the others).

[Houndsong]

Actually Kevin(?) It was an 03 Gruaud Larose I was referring to. I think you said you once gave it 100 points and thought it was Latour.

Anyway I recall seeing someone else, maybe Alex, posting GJE results a few years back and that Reignac did come in way at the top, so there must be something to it, at least as a young wine.

[DCWINO]

Actually Kevin(?) It was an 03 Gruaud Larose I was referring to. I think you said you once gave it 100 points and thought it was Latour.

Anyway I recall seeing someone else, maybe Alex, posting GJE results a few years back and that Reignac did come in way at the top, so there must be something to it, at least as a young wine.

Yes indeed. Some of us were questioning whether the 03 GL and the 03 Latour were mixed up but I gave the Latour 95 as I recall. I was able to correctly identify the Pavie and the Monbousquet so I was doing all right. I drank a few bottles of the 03 GL since then and rated em around 93.
There are two videos at Reignac website that you may find interesting. BTW, who are you?

[Blanquito]

He's a dog, tick hound variety. Can sniff TCA at 0.0001 parts per trillion. House trained too, with regular walks.

[Houndsong]

My name's Art. I just like wine. I have no other interest in it (business, journalistic, ratings, being dictator of forums, like that).

Admire the candor. It's enough for me that someone with more than passing experience would taste a wine and come away impressed/liking it. So if I also know even a little bit about the house and the vintage generally, that's a valuable data point. Which is why I like Cellartracker, even if I just browse notes.

[Chateau Vin]

Guys
........

So virtually every day I get at least 2 emails offering specials including back vintages.

So over the last week, I received 2 emails for long lists of Bordeaux estates and vintages from 1996 to 2006.
I actually bought some wines from 1996, 2000, 2004, 2005 and 2006 quite cheaply.

A competitor then had a "direct from the domaine" sale of 2006 left bank wines. Includes firsts and super seconds.
This follows a series of several left bank sales of 2006, everything from Ausone and Cheval Blanc to petits chateaux.

I have also just this week received verticals from several properties including Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande, D'issan, GPL, and several others.

Then I received a big list of 2007s including first growths all at heavily discounted prices but few are moving and I imagine the next list will be cheaper!
These wines were a hard ask to sell and after recently having been in France (got back 2 weeks ago) they are emerging on restaurant wine lists and were commonly on supermarket shelves (interestingly, the french seem to have less regard for vintage than the export markets).

The 2006s have been consistently disccounted for the last 2 years and when they sell out here, more container loads follow.
And I have bought several estates as I am finding it to be a nice vintage. Not a powerhouse, dark fruited vintage like 05 but more in the mould of say 1985.

So my point is that there is no end to the wine blowing in, and the mailer says "only 120 botttles" and next week another 240 or whatever of the same wine blow in, and so on.

.......

I don't know if it is in the far east, but in the US, I rarely see any discounts. Even if they discount, may be around 15 or 20 percent off...

It could be due to that there is enough demand in the US or to begin with the US market slowed down and the importers import less and therefore there is not much inventory to sell at discounts prices...

The only steep discount I could buy for a recent back vintage was 07 LLC for 75 bucks...If the back vintage discounts you are mentioning are available in the US, I would jump right in...

[DavidG]

I'm not seeing much discounting on older stuff, but it often looks like a bargain compared to '09/'10.

[robertgoulet]

Jay careful on the macard...clearly think there r some fraudulent activities going on...first release 09 of macard with the maroon capsule was an incredible qpr. Then they released a second shipment of 09 with the red capsule...clearly inferior and some undrinkable...I can make this is thisassessment since I tasted close to 3 cases of the first (maroon capsule 09) and numerous of the red capsule 09, even began buying from several different retailers to make sure I wasn't crazy....again end result was clearly a dramactically inferior product. Possibly they sold out of the 09 and bought grapes from another source and re-released. Total hypothetical, but if so, is this at all legal?

[DavidG]

Interesting. Sounds like a repeat of the Sierra Carche fiasco. Think it could be 2 different bottlings, both legit but handled differently?

[JonB]

There have been a few deep discounts sales but they've been isolated. Prearrivals rarely seem to be discounted, however PC had some 2009s and 2010s at 50% off in a couple sales.....including some big names. Smith Haut Lafitte, Malescot, Issan, as well as others.

[Claudius2]

JonB
Then snap them up if they are genuinely 50% off (not 50% off some theoretical nonsense figure).
Get 09 in partticular. Great vintage.

cheers
Mark

[Blanquito]

Just snagged a few 1990 Sociando for $75 and a 1986 St. Pierre for $40!

Such prices are exempt from any buying freeze.

[Jay Winton]

[quote="robertgoulet"]Jay careful on the macard...clearly think there r some fraudulent activities going on...first release 09 of macard with the maroon capsule was an incredible qpr. Then they released a second shipment of 09 with the red capsule...clearly inferior and some undrinkable...I can make this is thisassessment since I tasted close to 3 cases of the first (maroon capsule 09) and numerous of the red capsule 09, even began buying from several different retailers to make sure I wasn't crazy....again end result was clearly a dramactically inferior product. Possibly they sold out of the 09 and bought grapes from another source and re-released. Total hypothetical, but if so, is this at all legal?[/quote

interesting. why would an everyday quaffer be counterfeited??? I only ordered 4 bottles, arriving Wednesday this week, and WTSO will refund if I'm not happy so not worried.
.

[Tom In DC]

I doubt we're talking about a counterfeit, Jay. I'd guess just a different lot, maybe bottled later after a bit too long in wood?

[Jay Winton]

well, my batch of 2009 macard arrived. They are the maroon capsule. The previous ones were the infamous red capsule which for $11 delivered I had no problem drinking but I'm certainly looking forward to trying the real thing!

[Jay Winton]

I drank one of the Maroon capsules over a couple of nights. Great QPR. First impression was that the difference between this and the dreaded red capsule wasn't that great, IMVHO.