Kabinett Kwestion, Please

[Houndsong]

Generally speaking, does the alcoholic degree of a Kabinett influence its aging potential? For example, all other things being equal, is it be true that a Kabinett of 10 percent abv would age better than one of 8 percent abv?

More specifically, given these two bottles, which would you consume now, and which would you lay down for a few years?

1) 2007 Dr. Loosen Graacher Himmelreich Kabinett - 8% abv

2) 2008 Dr. Heyden Oppenheimer Kreuz Kabinett - 11% abv

Danke!

[DavidG]

Can't answer specifically for those wines, Hound, but in general I would say that alcohol is NOT a marker for aging potential. Acid and tannins are what preserve wines and allow them to age, with adequate fruit to last throughout the process of course being a critical factor. I would put alcohol below all 3 of those.

[Harry C.]

Agree with David. Terry theise likes his Kabinetts about 10 years old.

[Blanquito]

In general, lower alcohol German wines (which have higher RS) hold up longer than the higher alcohol ones. The main reason German white wines age so well compared to other whites (i.e. don't oxidize) is all the sugar.

You can leave a rich auslese open for weeks in the fridge with no hint of oxidation, just like a sauternes.

[stefan]

It is strange that eiswein is typically better young. Does anyone know the reason for that? Is the low alcohol a contributing factor?

[DavidG]

I'm not sure Stefan, but have also wondered why eisweins don't age as well as BAs or TBAs.

I've also never understood how residual sugar acts as a "preservative" to promote aging. Sugar is anything but an anti-oxidant. But common wisdom seems to be that RS preserves the wines.

[sdr]

I too believe that the low alcohol Kabinetts age better, but I've never seen any explanation for it.

More important is the pedigree of the site (and the winemaker). Of the two you mention, the Dr. Loosen has the edge so I would not be in a hurry to drink it. I'm sampling my 2001 Dr. Loosens (spatlese and auslese) and they are aging beautifully and fully mature for my palate.

Stuart

[Houndsong]

Thanks, guys. It's somewhat counterintuitive (at least as far as my intuition carries me) that less alcohol may in general mean greater longevity/ageability. But for sure I understand that the producer and vineyard and vintage probably too are probably paramount anyway.

[JimHow]

Geez, I wonder when I should drink these...

2004 Joh. Jos. Christoffel Erben Ürziger Würzgarten Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2009-2021 CT90.4
750ml $0.00 3 2004 Joh. Jos. Christoffel Erben Ürziger Würzgarten Riesling Spätlese * (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2010-2020 CT89.5
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Dönnhoff Norheimer Dellchen Riesling Auslese (Germany, Nahe) 2016-2031 CT92.7
375ml $0.00 1 2001 Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Brücke Riesling Auslese (Germany, Nahe) 2012-2029 CT93
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Brücke Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Nahe) 2007-2018 CT91
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Leistenberg Riesling Auslese (Germany, Nahe) 2007-2021 CT95
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Dönnhoff Oberhäuser Leistenberg Riesling Kabinett (Germany, Nahe) 2008-2014 CT91.4
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Joh. Jos. Prüm Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Auslese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2009-2022 LF, CT93.8
750ml $0.00 2 2001 Joh. Jos. Prüm Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2007-2018 CT92.2
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Joh. Jos. Prüm Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Auslese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2009-2025 WD18.5, MFW93+, CT94.2
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Joh. Jos. Prüm Wehlener Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2007-2020 LF, WD18.5, MFW95, CT92.5
750ml $0.00 1 2001 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Himmelreich Riesling Eiswein 'Junior' (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2008-2026 CT92.5
750ml $0.00 2 2004 Selbach-Oster Zeltinger Sonnenuhr Riesling Spätlese (Germany, Mosel Saar Ruwer) 2010-2024 CT92
TOTAL COLLECTION: 21 bottles in stock (Value: $0.00)

[stefan]

All are probably fine now, Jim, but the JJ Prum and probably also the Dönnhoff Auslesen will deepen with more time. I would start with the JJ Christoffel and then the Selbach-Oster wines.

[sdr]

I've tried about half the wines on your list, Jim. The Donnhoffs and JJ Prums are fabulous, and the others are not far behind. I agree with stefan's suggestion.

Stuart

[JonoB]

For Eiswein, I think they taste better young because they are so late harvest that the fruit character is fairly ripe, but the idea is then to effectively preserve any delicate fruit flavours.

Of course, I don't know why, or how this happens as they are the same grapes just aged longer!

Perhaps being so late harvest they don't maintain the acid levels of normal late harvest botrytised wines??

I think the thing with sugar is that it is a preservative rather than anti-oxidant, and thus allows the wines to hold in their respective states for longer. I think though with German Rieslings, that it is the acid levels that allow for true age ability.