TN: 1999 Pavie Macquin

[RDD]

The majority of the board are Left Bank centric, but I love both banks. And I have always been partial to Pavie Macquin.
The 1999 was a bargain after the heralded 1998 Right Bank vintage. It is always a smug pleasure to drink great nectar that you bought for what now appears to be nothing . And you take pride in providing good cared and proper cellaring.
And sometimes you catch a bottle in perfect harmony.
And that's what happened tonight with some dried aged T-bones.
The Merlot nose wasn't extraordinary. If you searched there was some spice, oak and fruit.
It in no way revealed the depth of blackberry , blueberry, and current fruit. It was a beautiful suprise. A smooth mouth feel and then the fruit rolled over your tongue and made one ponder how good wine can be. It makes you take notice of each mouthful as you become more and more impressed.
Had suave tannins and a nice clean finish that echo'ed with fruit for a good number of seconds.
I've had the 99 a number of times and it is at its best right now.
92 points - It was good but I didn't fall to my knews and thank God for me letting taste a bottle.

[OrlandoRobert]

Your opening comment is interesting, though bear in mind, I'm new to the Boards. I was always right bank centric until around the 2003 vintage to the present. I've put a halt on most St Em purchases for now, though will admit loving Pomerol. If I could still afford it, I'd buy Figeac. Lovely, classic, St.Em. The modern movement is killing that appellation for me. Would love to try the '99 PM. I bought some great stuff from that vintage, but not the PM. Thanks for the notes!

[AlexR]

RDD,

You wrote “The majority of the board are Left Bank centric, but I love both banks”.

That statement is the start of an excellent discussion. It’s a shame we can’t have it sitting at a table with several glasses in front of us!

I’d say that a number of factors are at play here.

First of all is history: the Left Bank wines have a long tradition (centuries) of being exported from the port of Bordeaux whereas the wines of St. Emilion and Pomerol do not. The symbiotic relationship between larger estates on the Left Bank and the leading négociants sure didn’t hurt either. But that’s only part of the story. English speakers often seem to prefer the austerity and reserve of Médoc wines, plus the fact that, until the 1980s, the greatest wines of Bordeaux were pretty much unanimously felt to be Left Bank by English-speaking wine writers. Many generations of Brits and Americans learned in all the most widely-read books that Médoc was the bee’s knees.

More controversial is the comparison today between the two banks… The Médoc wines are easier to find on the market because there is so much more of them. The Merlot-based wines on the Right Bank should, by all rights, be more commercially successful because of their seductive roundness and relative openness. And yet… A case could be made that quality is less homogeneous across the board, and that the classification system in St. Emilion is not reliable.
Polemical statements, I know, I know… .

Pavie Macquin is a marvelous estate and the drive up there memorable. It is, of course, very satisfying that they were promoted to Premier Cru Classé. Prices have not shot through the roof and this is a wine beloved of the French. Not just because it’s good, but also because the Anglo-Saxon media haven’t pushed prices sky-high. There’s something steadfast and old-fashioned about Pavie Macquin. It isn't trendy and defies time.

As for the 99s, I’m partial to them too. This is more than just what the French call a “useful vintage”. The wines are relatively early maturing, but do not have the greenness of a truly mediocre vintage. They are a little on the light side, but still very good.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[DavidG]

Good history lesson Alex but does it apply to our members? These days it seems to me that I see more St Ems than any other commune here in the states.

[AlexR]

David,

You would know better than me.

I think the bias is less, but it's still there.

Also, you may be dead right as per one communal appellation.
But what if you add up all the Médoc ones?

All the best,
Alex R.

[marcs]

I love the 1999s. My first classed growth purchase was the 1999 Lynch Bages and that wine has always been terrific, wonderful in its youth and never shut down. I was at a Leoville/Langoa Barton wine dinner last night and the 1999 Leoville Barton was my wine of the night. In my experience the left bank 99s have this wonderful supple, seductive, charming quality while retaining complexity and minerality. They are never heavy or overbearing but not thin either. I've found 1999 superior to e.g. 2001, at least on the left bank.

[Tom In DC]

You're a slippery devil, AlexR, always changing the context when you're cornered!

A quick look at MacArthur's website finds 102 St. Emilion wines available. Closest runner up with less than half as many is St. Julien at 44 wines. Adding 32 from Pauillac, 29 from Margaux, and 18 from St. Estephe does get you past the St. Emilion number. But then we're free to add 41 Pessac-Leognan (rouge) and 40 Pomerol to the "non-Medoc commune" total and it's a runaway again.

[DavidG]

I don't have many 1999s. But they are all right bankers.

Bordeaux in my cellar:
40% Left bank (St Estephe, Pauillac, St Julien, Margaux, Moulis, Medoc, Haut Medoc etc)
40% Right bank (St Emilion and Pomerol)
14% Pessac-Leognan
6% Barsac/Sauternes

Not too dissimilar from the distribution of offerings at MacArthurs, one of my favorite stores. Go figure...

[RDD]

I have a modest amount of 1999 as I thought they we good bargains.

[Jay Winton]

I have a few bottles of 99 Lynch Bages and GPL. Might be worth bringing one or two to Dallas.

[AlexR]

Tom,

I have never denied being a slippery devil .

Have I really changed the context though?
Aren't Graves wines Left Bank too?

The largest classified growth in Saint-Emilion, by a very wide margin, is Ch. Fombrauge with 65 hectares, whereas several in the Médoc are going on double that... My point here is that Médoc estates are much bigger, and thus logically tend to represent much more volume per château.

I cannot find the precise breakdown of export figures by appellation, but I know where to go to get them.
In fact, I'm kind of itching to start my own blog that would deal with just this sort of subject, but I'm worried that it would take over my life....

Best regards,
Alex R.

[DavidG]

Hmm, further hijacking this thread...

Certainly sales (not necessarily exports since not everything gets sold, right?) by volume rather than by $$ or by number of available labels should be a better measure of what's popular with consumers.

[Tom In DC]

Tom,

I have never denied being a slippery devil .

Have I really changed the context though?
Aren't Graves wines Left Bank too?

Re-read your post, Alex -- Medoc, not Left Bank!

David,

You would know better than me.

I think the bias is less, but it's still there.

Also, you may be dead right as per one communal appellation.
But what if you add up all the Médoc ones?

All the best,
Alex R.

[AlexR]

Tom,

The Médoc has 16,300 hectares of vines.
St. Emilion has 5,400. Even if you add the satellites and Pomerol, there's still a huge gap.

Alex R.

[JimHow]

I've been disappointed by the 1998 Pavie Macquin.
You'd think that that wine in that vintage would have fared better.

[Tom In DC]

...

Also, you may be dead right as per one communal appellation.
But what if you add up all the Médoc ones?

All the best,
Alex R.

Ah, there you go again, Alex - one minute you're talking about only the communal appellations of the Médoc, the next you want to include Graves and Pessac-Léognan, and now you're spouting hectares for the entire Médoc.

The Médoc has 16,300 hectares of vines.
St. Emilion has 5,400.

Do you now consider all of the Médoc as within the context of your own reference to the communal appelations that I thought we were both discussing? If so, I give up.

But I appreciate your ability to keep faith with your prejudices against factual evidence to the contrary. You might consider the possibility that the state of the US wine market has not been frozen in time since you expatriated yourself 30 years ago. Seriously, you should be trumpeting the presence of more than one hundred Saint-Émilion wines in one store as proof that Americans may have indeed been listening your incessant harping about all the "other wines" of Bordeaux, no?

Cheers,
Tom

[AlexR]

Hi Tom,

Well, I’ve just gone and added up the acreage of all the Médoc communal appellations, and see that my initial supposition is correct. The total is 6,200 hectares compared to Saint-Emilion’s 5,400 ha.
And that’s overlooking the fact that calling St. Emilion “communal” is a bit of a stretch because it covers 9 communes…

You are completely right to wonder if decades away from the US hasn’t deformed my perception of the US market. I guess too that my understanding of the Left/Right Bank split is also fed by interest I see on forums such as this as well as meeting a steady stream of English-speaking visitors to Bordeaux. Most of the latter view going to the Médoc the main priority. Saint-Emilion comes second, and often for tourism as much as wine.

I think it’s great that your local retailer has a hundred St. Emilion châteaux, please don’t misread me! I’m thinking however, that this is misleading with regard to the two main ways of seeing the market: volume and value.
As pointed out above, Médoc estates are much bigger and (I can’t prove this for the moment) imports more expensive per bottle.
Therefore, the Mac Arthur selection is probably another instance of statistics giving a false impression. Also, to what extent is their selection typical of the US market?

The CIVB (Conseil Interprofessionnel des Vins de Bordeaux) publishes customs statistics per country per appellation. So the definitive answer to the issue that divides us is certainly obtainable. Unfortunately, I cannot find the numbers online. If you’d like, but it would have to be at a later date, I can drop by and get those stats.
To what extent is BWE typical of Bordeaux wine drinkers? Well, that’s impossible to know, but the poll that has been launched should prove interesting

All the best,
Alex

[dbg]

Alex, the statistic that counts is what consumers buy in the US. Not acreage, not volume produced or shipped or sold to negociants or importers. If you want to discuss the leanings of US consumers, which is what we are discussing here, you have to look at the purchasing patterns (volume and dollars) of US consumers. Availability in a major retail store in the US isn't exactly that, but it's a lot closer surrogate than the acreage in Bordeaux. The statistics you are quoting are the ones giving a false impression.

[AlexR]

dbg,

I never said any differently!
Did you not see my statement "to the two main ways of seeing the market: volume and value"?

The disucssion about appellation sizes was an offshoot, although it is true that you are missing the supply side in your equation.

Alex R.

[DavidG]

Yes, I see there are two different discussions going on here, besides the one started by Rob on Pavie Mac.

My posts are mostly in response to the offshoot regarding whether "the Board" - i.e. the people who post here, are right or left bank centric. Which has nothing to do with acreage or supply. I think I've made my point and have little disagreement with the stats you've posted about acreage and supply. I just don't think they are relevant to the the discussion that arose from Rob's offhand comment.

[Tom In DC]

I guess a never denied slippery devil isn't legally an admitted one, eh?

[AlexR]

David,

I must disagree with your statement "My posts are mostly in response to the offshoot regarding whether "the Board" - i.e. the people who post here, are right or left bank centric. Which has nothing to do with acreage or supply."

The question that started the thread implies taste preferences.
But not just.

A number of BWEers shared the Right/Left breakdown of their cellars.

What we like most and what we have in our cellars are not identical.
I can "prefer" Château Pétrus or Romanée-Conti, but:

a) The supply of those wines is limited
b) This scarce supply drives prices up
c) Supply necessarily affects availability and price and thus influences what we have in our cellars

In other words, it is not a red herring.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[DavidG]

Alex, I'm having trouble following the logic in your last post. I said it has nothing to do with acreage or supply. You replied about taste preferences. There is no connection between the two. So to me the acreage and supply is irrelevant.

The offshoot of this thread IS about taste preferences - on that we agree. So what's available in a popular and successful store is likely reflective of the taste preferences of that store's customers, assuming they pay attention to the feedback of what their customers are buying, which is why they are successful. That wont necessarily be aligned with our board members' preferences. What we have in our cellars oughtto be aligned with our taste preferences. While on occasion I've been less than accurate in aligning my purchases with my taste preferences, I think on average my cellar, and that of most of those here, reflects those preferences. In any case, the poll posted by Art goes straight to the heart of the matter. It shows a clear preference for the left bank, so I think that settles it. Me, I'm a wine slut, I love the right bank, the left bank, Rhones, Champagne, Cali Cabs, etc. But I'm also a hedonist - not into the self-flagellation associated with over-acidic, under-fruited Burgs and Italians...

[JonB]

The highly acidic wines from n Burgundy and Italy tend to come from smaller sites than those of the northern medoc. So I assume we should find more of these wines at US stores?

[AlexR]

Cher David,

Sorry, I didn't quite understand the first paragraph of your most recent post. Let me recap: what we buy is necessarily influenced by production figures. These have a direct bearing on availability and price *regardless* of our likes and dislikes and necessarily impact our purchases. QED.

I read with interest your comment: "So what's available in a popular and successful store is likely reflective of the taste preferences of that store's customers, assuming they pay attention to the feedback of what their customers are buying, which is why they are successful."

If the capitalist system worked admirably, that would be correct. But what happens is this: women buy the clothes that fashion designers dictate to them and wine buyers select from what importers/distributors want to sell them. In other words, consumer choice starts out being limited and, in my opinion, by a number of relatively artificial and subjective factors. I maintain that the wine business bases much of their purchasing on reviews by His Highness and publications like the Wine Spectator. In other words they want wine that is "pre-sold" to a certain extent. Makes life so much easier .
It could be said that if the customer buys and is satisfied, then all is well. End of story. However, I would contest that. Lots of the things sell well, and with repeat purchases, that are mediocre, poor value, or are not good for you.
The equation between what there is, what is good, what we can find, what we like, what we can afford, and what we buy is, in fact, more complicated than meets the eye.

Best regards,
Alex R.

[OrlandoRobert]

When I went through my poor phase in 1999-2002 (new child, new business, wife not working), I unwittingly switched my buying habits to right bank over left bank. The answer was really quite simple. It had nothing to do with my palate, and everything to do with availability and cost. It seems as if it is far easier to buy a sub-$50 St Emilion with a high rating from You Know Who than a comparably rated left bank. Back then we had less access to internet blogs and CT, and Florida did not allow shipping so my access to quality wines was less, and as a consequence, I relied more on critics. Out comes 2005 in high praise and high availability, with remarkable depth in quality, and I unwittingly switch back to a more dominant left bank purchasing strategy. At that point, wines were on the market and I was trying a wider range of Bordeaux before pulling the trigger. I only ordered a few futures, and funny enough, those were right bank.

In a long-winded way, I guess I'm trying to say market availability may not correlate to production figures. St. Ems are easy sells to the American public - better price, more approachable, loved by the Man with the Golden Palate.

Ironically for me, Since the 2005 vintage, I'm back to buying like I did pre-1999, and that's to wait until the wines hit the market and make my own decisions, and they tend to be predominantly left bank. I may pay more this way, and may miss on the hot property that just got the 100-point bottle rating, but I feels as if I actually pay less as I tend to buy less duds.

And then there are some producer that I buy in most decent vintages without worry: GPL, La Lagune, Lanessan, Baudry, Joguet, Clape, Ridge, Copain, etc. Sadly, I used to put Pontet Canet, the Leovilles, Lynch Bages, the Pichons, etc., in that campe, but prices have gone stratospheric.

[DavidG]

Cher David,

Sorry, I didn't quite understand the first paragraph of your most recent post. Let me recap: what we buy is necessarily influenced by production figures. These have a direct bearing on availability and price *regardless* of our likes and dislikes and necessarily impact our purchases. QED.

I read with interest your comment: "So what's available in a popular and successful store is likely reflective of the taste preferences of that store's customers, assuming they pay attention to the feedback of what their customers are buying, which is why they are successful."

If the capitalist system worked admirably, that would be correct. But what happens is this: women buy the clothes that fashion designers dictate to them and wine buyers select from what importers/distributors want to sell them. In other words, consumer choice starts out being limited and, in my opinion, by a number of relatively artificial and subjective factors. I maintain that the wine business bases much of their purchasing on reviews by His Highness and publications like the Wine Spectator. In other words they want wine that is "pre-sold" to a certain extent. Makes life so much easier .
It could be said that if the customer buys and is satisfied, then all is well. End of story. However, I would contest that. Lots of the things sell well, and with repeat purchases, that are mediocre, poor value, or are not good for you.
The equation between what there is, what is good, what we can find, what we like, what we can afford, and what we buy is, in fact, more complicated than meets the eye.

Best regards,
Alex R.

If we are still talking about right vs left bank Bordeaux, both are readily available in the US, so purchase decisions hinge on consumer choice, not acreage or barrels produced. Of course if a wine isn't imported to the US it wont sell much here. But again, both right and left bank Bordeaux can be found on the shelves or ordered pre-arrival from numerous merchants without difficulty, so it still comes down to consumer choice. Lots of things can influence that. I agree that critics have influence, but probably not to the degree that I think you attribute to them.