The 2009 Haut-Bergey has been uncorked....

[JimHow]

First impressions are that this is a very serious wine!

[OrlandoRobert]

Gosh damnit, Jim, now you are arm-twisting me to open one of mine!

As I grab one from storage for the weekend . . . .

You guys are baby killers I tell ya!

shhh . . . drinking a 2009 Lanessan right now

[JimHow]

Well done OrlandoRobert, very well done indeed.

As I move past the initial sips of this wine, I continue to arrive at the conclusion that 2009 is a very serious vintage to be reckoned with indeed!

[dbg]

Looking forward to these notes. This was a value play for me based on critics' notes and prices, but I haven't cracked one yet.

[JimHow]

The color is a very impressive deep purple/ruby. Very clean and pure.

[JimHow]

Haven't put the steak on and we're nowhere near the whoopie pie yet, but I would characterize this so far as kind of a 'big" wine. Rich and plush. Mmmmm.

[JimHow]

The scorched earth nose matches anything Pape Clement can put out there.

[stefan]

Last night I opened an '09 that is of a somewhat higher class than those I have tried previously--'09 de Sales. Today it is better than last night, although the oak is still intrusive. However, the firm structure suggests that this good value wine will provide pleasure down the road.

I cannot bring myself to open a really fine '09 at four years of age. Thanks for taking a hit for the team, BD.

[OrlandoRobert]

Sounds pretty modern.

Now mind you that I can luv me sum modern Bordeaux, but by comparison, this '09 Lanessan is all old world. Not evoking the lush ripeness of other '09s I have tried, this wine is more crunchy red fruits with a very slight green tinge, like apple peal. A very solid 89 point wine to buy by the case. Starting to close down just a little bit compared to the bottles I have previously popped.

Back to the Haut Bergey, the '05 is big, dense, adequately balancing the scorched notes that I discerned from the '06 and '08 vintages and apparently from the '09 you are drinking. I think '05 carries it off while '08 does not. That '09 is a dense, purple looking wine. Really looking forward to trying it.

[JimHow]

The oak is intrusive here. I'm grappling with this wine.

I agree, it is modern. However, the question I ask these days is whether it is modern because of the better attention to detail, better winemaking techniques, etc, or is it modern because of manipulation and Parkerization?

I have five more bottles of this in the cellar.

The question to be answered is: Will I buy another 6-12 bottles at $32 each?

[JimHow]

Lanessan is good stuff, Robert.

[OrlandoRobert]

When I use the term "modern," it is not in the Mies van der Rohe sense of the word. I wish it were more in the Frank Lloyd wright sense of the word, but I fear it leans more toward "more is more". Venturi was wrong when he said less is a bore. We have better wine-making and viticultural techniques, perhaps, but we also have more involvement and treatment. Some wines and wine-makers can carry it off, others cannot. I gotta admit, I love Pavie. On Pavie, it works.

[JimHow]

I agree with 100% of what you just said, Robert.

And the Pavie example is spot on.

I honestly don't know what to make of the 2009 Haut-Bergey. Maybe it is just too young. I've had Haut-Bergey before, from other vintages. As well made as it is, it seems to lack that oomph factor, that special something that we see from Haut Bailley, Pape Clement, etc. He Who Shall Remain Nameless says this estate is an "overachiever," which I never consider a compliment. Was just looking at His notes on the 2009 Haut Bergey. Everything that He says is accurate: Scorched earth, ripe cheries, pencil shavings, black currants, etc., etc. I'd add that it has a very lovely finish and has potential. I think it will age fairly well, for at least 20 years. I admit I've only drunk about 45% of this bottle tonight. It has everything that Parker says, except that "special something" that brings it to the next level.

[OrlandoRobert]

It's funny about expectations. And I think you are correct about this estate. It's quite good, typically, and I guess by today's standards, is a QPR. But for me, for $40 per bottle, I too want some oomph. If I paid $20 like I did for the Lanessan, I really am a happy man. If I paid $40 for that Lanessan, I would say, "where is the oomph?" Price certainly breeds expectations. Let's not kid ourselves, $40 remains a fair bit of coin for a bottle of wine.

[Bacchus]

I guess there's a bit of consensus forming around this wine. I think it might have a bit more oomph than what I'm otherwise reading here, and I still see it as a pretty good value play. It's head and shoulders above the Phelan Segur (although I seem to be the only person who dislikes this wine, most of the pros rating it around 90). I'm pleased with my 6-pack (now 5), but haven't bought more.

Jim, how would you compare it to the Meyney?

[JimHow]

As much as I've wanted to love Larrivet Haut Brion, de Fieuzal, and now Haut Bergey from the 2009 vintage, I just can't do it. And that's not a criticism of the 2009 vintage. I think these are all perfectly well made wines, all the best grapes were picked, at perfect ripeness, etc. There's just a lack of "personality" here in these Graves/Pessac wines. Again, I really have to emphasize that this is not a criticism of the 2009 vintage, which, as far as I can tell, seems exceptional, maybe one of the best in the past 30 years. But I just can't go along with a 94 rating for Haut Bergey '09, as HWSRN suggests. I'll give it more like a 90. It is clearly a quality wine. At $32 per bottle, the big question is do I buy 6 more bottles. I have 5 more in my cellar. My answer is: NO. No. I will not buy 6 more bottles at $32 per bottle. I will explore other wines in that price range. This is not a 94 point winebecause, like the Larrivet and Fieuzal, it lacks that "somethig extra," that "wow" factor. This wine, like de Fieuzal, seems Parkerized. Tonight, I'll give this wine a solid 90 points.

[JimHow]

Tough call between Haut Bergey and Meyney, Bacchus. Haut Bergey is probably the "better" wine, but Meyney is probably the more "true" wine. Two very different wines. If I had to choose I'd probably go with Haut Bergey. I'll bet I rated Meyney higher, which shows how ridiculous 100 point scoring is.

[JCNorthway]

Jim,

I was about to rush out an buy this wine when I saw your initial comments. As I read down the thread, I became less and less interested. In the end, it does not sound like a wine I need to buy. But what do I buy from this profound 2009 vintage at a reasonable price point?

[JimHow]

I'm just a touch disappointed, Jon, bcause I thought I was going to buy a lot of $30-ish wines from 2009 like Fieuzal, Haut Bergey, Larrivet, etc., etc. I'm ordering other $20 range "90-pointers" like Chantegrive, Joanin Becot, etc., etc. I've just about finished this bottle of '09 Haut Bergey and my opinion has only decreased rather improved. It just seems.. ehhh... Definitely not a 94 pointer. Despite the negative tone of my comments in this thread, I honstly think 2009 is a great vintage, from what I can tell. The challenge is going to be to keep away from the Parkerized stuff. I've loved some wines in the $40-60 range, like Sociando and Giscours. I would not buy Haut Bergey in any quantity until you try at least one bottle. Maybe it is a style you'll like. Myself, it is a disappointment.

[Blanquito]

... There's just a lack of "personality" here in these Graves/Pessac wines...

This is the essence of the issue for me with new-wave darlings in Graves and other communes, chateau like Haut Bergey, Barde Haut, Larrivet Haut Brion, maybe even "better" wines like Smith Haut Lafitte.

One funny thing, I have really enjoyed the vintages of the Monbousquet I've tried, the 1998, 1999 and 2000. I guess while Monbo is clearly modern, it still has plenty of personality.

[Bacchus]

Guys, don't be put off trying a bottle of Haut Bergey. Try a single bottle before making up your minds. There are worse ways of spending $30-$35. Like Jim I bought an initial 6, and probably won't buy any more, at least not at this time. But I'm not disappointed to have my 6 and will be pleased to see how they develop over the years. I want to get back to tasting my way through Margaux, which I'm really liking this year. Speaking of which, d'Angludet is worth a shot this year. And it's less money than Haut Bergey, at least up here in the great white north.

[JimHow]

I agree, everyone should buy some and decide for yourselves. It may be a style that appeals to you.

[stefan]

I hope that you saved some for tonight, Jim. That extra 24 hours of air helped the de Sales quite a bit.

[JimHow]

None left. Don't get me wrong, this is a tasty, reasonably priced wine. I did rate it 90 points. It's just kind of modern and soulless.

[DavidG]

Hmm, sounds like I need to do an '09 Lanessan vs '09 Haut Bergey side by side and see what I think. But at 4 years of age it seems such a waste. Too young to show much character.

[AlohaArtakaHoundsong]

I think Patrick will agree with me on this one, in any recent vintage I don't like Haut Bergey's label. It is not befitting a quality wine. It lacks gravitas and oomph factor at any price point.

These are the same people who make Ch. Barde Haut in St. Em. The 05 of both are nice (esp. the Barde Haut) but I agree they don't seem to have a distinctive quality.

[OrlandoRobert]

Rise up, BWE'rs! To heck with with Jim and his opinions on '09 Haut Bergey!

Click on this link, and this video, and think for yourselves:

http://www.b-21.com/2009-Chateau-Haut-B ... Q6lRRG9KSM

I'm sooooo in love . . . .

Need. to. buy. anything. she. sells . . . .

[JimHow]

Just got my 20-30% off VIP notice from PJs....
Must...be...strong....

[JimHow]

In all seriousness... 2009 Haut Bergey at $25? Now we are talking!

[OrlandoRobert]

So you bought more Garcin . . . um, I mean, Haut Bergey? That's hot.

[JimHow]

I have a case of 2005 Haut Bergey.
Guess I'll hold it 15 years.

[Bacchus]

I was with you Orlando Bob, until I saw those rings on her left hand! Damn, I wish I could get Haut Bergey for $25! Not even close!!!

[JimHow]

I'm entitled to six bottles at cost, which they say is 20-30% off.
At 20-30% off $32, I think I'm going to buy 6 more bottles!

[Bacchus]

I don't think you can go wrong with that, Jim. I'll tell you what wouldn't be worth it -- the Phelan Segur. It was quite a bit spoofier than the HB. It had no hint, for example, of that "light on its feet" quality. All gooey and thickly viscous.

[DavidG]

Jim, you should listen to every word that woman says - 15 years before opening one. Aand I bought it as a value play and early drinker. Hmm...

I got that at-cost PJs offer too. Just gotta figure out when I'm going to get to NYC to pick up the wines I already bought to get me to "VIP" status.

[OrlandoRobert]

Jim, you should listen to every word that woman says - 15 years before opening one. Aand I bought it as a value play and early drinker. Hmm...

Other than the fact she was HOT and her swirling had me swooning, that was an interesting part of the interview: The owner saying 15 years, no less than 10, for optimum drinking. My friend Rhett is the guy asking her questions.