You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

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OrlandoRobert
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You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

So with all this talk about Bordeaux going modern on us and prices growing exponentially, will everyone please list their top QPR in Bordeaux and elsewhere (in two prices classes), involving wines that are currently in the marketplace. Consider, too, wines with a track-record, not just "one-offs".

Here are my choices:

Bordeaux (Sub-$30 USD):
2009 Lanessan at $20 retail
A classic claret. A wine to buy by the case. You owe it to yourself to try this wine, all red crunchy claret goodness. Not a blockbuster, and not big, but just damn good drinking juice, almost a luncheon claret (not a pejorative!).

Bordeaux ($30-$50 USD):
Help me on this one please. In 2009 and 2010 I have bought quite a few in this range, including Talbot, La Lagune, Gloria, Giscours, Cantemerle, but I have not tried many yet. The '05 vintage certainly has many in this price class, and I loved them early, but am now sitting on them.

QPR from Elsewhere (sub-$30):
Domaine Guion Cuvee Prestige at $13-$14 retail
An incredible, medium body Loire red. Great blend of red fruits and crunchy veggies. Essence of terroir. Age-worthy. You owe it to yourself to try this wine (but not for the modernists)

QPR from Elsewhere ($30-$50)

Gonon St. Joseph
Gonon makes old-world Northern Rhone syrah. Tremendous expression of terroir and typicity. You will not mistake this wine for anything else but Northern Rhone syrah. Gonon ranks up there with one of my favorite estates. The 2009 and 2010 vintages are extraordinary, and the 2011 was just released at sub-$40. (I put Baudry, Joguet and Ridge Zins in this camp, and almost a toss-up). Gonon also makes a Vieille Vignes that is mind-bogglingly good but twice the price.


I truly hope to learn from this thread as all of us have special everyday wines that rock us.

THANKS
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Blanquito
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

Good thread, we haven't had one of these in a while... Undoubtedly a constantly moving target as Parker's 100-point influence continues to put once reliable chateau out of reach (Duhart Milon used to be my sub-$30 Bordeaux QPR as recently as the 2003 vintage!), here's my take circa 2012. I modified the QPR criterion to be $20-$30, as I think the sub-$20 category is sufficiently different than the $20-$30 one to merit it's own consideration.

Bordeaux ($20-$30 USD):
Can't argue with the 2009 Lanessan for $20. Older vintages like the 1996 and 2000 didn't developed as well as I once hoped (too lean, too weedy, too musty), but since 2003, Lanessan has been on a roll and the 2009 version I tried last week was easily my favorite Lanessan, "best ever from here" . Runner up, Carbonnieux rouge 2005 : really excellent in 2004-2006 with the 2005 version stellar and already drinking well (bought the 2005 for $28 as futures).

Bordeaux ($30-$50 USD):)
Sociando Mallet (duh). du Tertre can be outstanding value in strong vintages like 2000 and 2005. Cantemerle (pre-Parkerized $5-bumped version at least)... Boyd Cantenac, Gloria has really stepped up in 2009 and 2010, Grand Mayne has been excellent for ~$35, but I wonder if it too has gone to the Dark Side (by the way, I think it's no mistake that Parker entitled his 2010 review the Empire Strikes Back with Michel Rolland playing Darth Vader to Parker's Emperor... "if you only knew the power of reverse osmosis!").

QPR from Elsewhere ($20-$30):
Produttori di Barbaresco Normale, Muga Reserva (the 2004 is just rounding into form), Ridge Geyserville (the only US wine I buy most years)

QPR from Elsewhere ($30-$50):
Muga Prado Enea 2004, Roagna Barbaresco Paje (can be had for high $40's with some hunting), all of the Produttori di Barbaresco Riservas.
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JimHow
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by JimHow »

I don't drink wine every day and I don't drink hardly anything other than Bordeaux.

I'm just not motivated by those Parker "value" wines.

Bordeaux (Sub-$30 USD):
I suppose Lanessan is as good as any if I had to choose one.

Bordeaux ($30-$50 USD):
Sociando Mallet would be one of the few wines that still excites me in this price range.

QPR from Elsewhere (sub-$20)
I don't drink anything from elsewhere in this price range.

QPR from Elsewhere ($30-$50)
I can still find some decent Jadot wines in this price range.
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dstgolf
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by dstgolf »

Good thread and long overdue based on the discussions. Everyone is surely upset that wines we once loved we no longer may be able to afford so where are people turning to.

I still have a few go to satellite Bordeaux that meet your criteria. Not sure the price point in USA but I'm sure they are cheaper than Canada's pricing.

Bordeaux $20-30
La Veielle Cure from Fronsac $26 and d'Aighuile cotes de Castillon $29 are more traditionally made. I've enjoyed the 03 Lilian Ladouys very much and drinking through 2 cases worth!

Bordeaux $30-60
I increased the bracket because if I can get these at $60 or less then they will be much less south of the 49th.

Monbousquet at$60 is a style that got a lot of criticism here years ago but I have enjoyed everything it has brought. Slightly cheaper at $45 Gloria,de Fieuzal $55,La Tour Figeac,La Dominique,l'Arrosee and Clos l'Oratoire all come in at $45-55. Some a little more on the modern style but to my taste.

I am sad to say the left bank has become much more out of reach than the right at least speaking for St Emilion and their satellites.

For non Bordeaux we drink a lot of $15-30 wines from Rioja and Priorat too numerous to list and many I just pick up based on a 90+ pt Parker rating. How bad can it be for under $30 with ratings like that!! :D
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

I don't have enough experience tasting the same producer across multiple vintages to say what is a go-to qpr. And besides, the wines I have drunk mostly in the last 10 years have been by an large fairly recent vintages and however much I liked them or simply choked them down ITNOS I really don't know how they'll turn out in the end, even if I hope it's well. Now, if I relied as well on other sources deemed credible I can say that quite a few "one-offs" I picked up for short money were exceedingly good qpr, and also qualified as "fine wine" in absolute terms/by any standard. A few of these wines would not be available locally or even stateside online from vintage to vintage.
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OrlandoRobert
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

Great stuff guys, thanks!

Blanquito, what's cool about these things is you get a sense of other's tastes. Everything you have listed, I love! I drink almost no Spanish, except Muga. I drink almost no Cali, except Ridge (and Copain). I, too, buy Geyserville and Lytton Springs almost every year, 2009 was smokin!
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by dstgolf »

I forgot Giscours which is right on the line at $60. Can't be all that disappointing if the BD gave it wine of the year award for the 2009 in 2012!
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

I does sound like we have similar palates, Orlando. For that reason, I am hesistant to try these Chinon's you like so much, as I suspect I'd get hooked (and I'm ramping down my wine buying these days, successfully so far).

That said, today I just loaded up with a mixed case of some 2009 Ridge Lytton Springs and Geyserville half-bottles for $18 each, excited to give them a test-drive! I can always use half-bottles around the joint, I rationalize.
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Nicklasss
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Nicklasss »

Bordeaux (Sub-$30 USD):
Clos Floridene or Crus Bourgeois from Saint-Estephe.

Bordeaux ($30-$50 USD):
Sociando Mallet. What a great wine!

QPR from Elsewhere (sub-$20)
Montepulciano d'Abruzzo from Masciarelli.

QPR from Elsewhere ($30-$50)
Ridge Vineyard

Nic
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Bacchus »

Since we pay close to double up here in Canada, as Dan has intimated, I'll take that into account in my choices:

Bdx (sub $30 USD): Mine is a borderline call because the price shifts back and forth over the line by a buck or two depending on the vintage, but I'm going with Ch. Brown, a very nice and improving Pessac property; and just to prove you can stay on the left side at this price range. :-)

Bdx ($30-$60 USD): Every one's going with SM, and for good reason, of course. But to add some variety, I'll head down to the other end of the Medoc and pull for D'Angludet. This is smack in the middle of the price range. Not Palmer or Rauzan Segla to be sure, but a nice and improving wine.

Other QPR under $30; Just to prove you can get drinkable Burgundy in this price range, I'll recommend Domaine Bernard & Thierry Glantenay, Volnay 2009. Even less and still pretty good is their basic 2009 Bourgogne.

Other QPR $30-$60; I could list a couple of Bernard & Glantenay's 1er Cru, but that would get boring, so I'll go with Brovia Barolo. They're not all in this range, of course, but some are.
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OrlandoRobert
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

Bacchus - Have you tried the 2010 Ch. Brown? It's available to me locally for $30 USD. I enjoyed the 2000. I will likely grab some.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Bacchus »

No 2010s here yet, Robert. In my cellar I've got '00s and '05s, and I've tried the 09. I like them all. A minor regret: a six-pack of the 02s showed up in my local store 3 days ago. For some reason I didn't pull the trigger and when I went back the next day, they were indeed gone!
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by DavidG »

Under $30
Bordeaux: agree with Lanessan
Elsewhere, throwing a dart at a pile of excellent Cotes du Rhones: almost anything from St Cosme (Cotes du Rhone, Deux Albions, sometimes one of their less expensive Gigondas)

$30-$50
Hard to answer this. Every one I think of has priced itself out of the category, and I suspect that those that fit today will be over $50 in a year or two. Oh well...
Bordeaux: Barde Haut
Elsewhere: Grand Veneur les Origines (used to be Vieux Télégraphe)
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by dstgolf »

Vieux Telegraphe is now over $50??!! Even the 2007 here was still $49 on release.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by JimHow »

Vieux Telegraphe is almost $100 now.
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OrlandoRobert
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

JimHow wrote:Vieux Telegraphe is almost $100 now.
Ridiculous. I used to love this estate. Anyone want my '07s?
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by JimHow »

I paid $88 each for two bottles of the 2010 VT in NH. It was Parkerized. Oh, it was good, don't get me wrong. I just can't afford any more!
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Blanquito
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

DavidG wrote:Grand Veneur les Origines
Yes, excellent value, the 2000 is particularly excellent. Not sure how the new vintages taste per Parker's influence, but I got the 95-RMP-pt 2010 Grand Veneur les Origines for $35.
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Blanquito
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

OrlandoRobert wrote:
JimHow wrote:Vieux Telegraphe is almost $100 now.
Ridiculous. I used to love this estate. Anyone want my '07s?
I'll buy your 07 VTs, but only if you buy the rest of my 07 CDPs!!! 2007, it's good for two things: degreasing engines and killing brain cells.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

Now you are making fun of the greatest vintage in any region ever.

I would not say (there I go with the negative again) that my only entrant in the 2007 Rhone sweeps, the 07 Clos du Caillou Cdr "Vielles Vignes" is a bad wine. Not at all. In fact I thought on purchase it was uncharacteristically hard for what was supposedly a lush vintage. But two-three years in bottle and it gained some nuance and lost some edge and it is not bad at all.
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Blanquito
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

Fair enough, Art. There are some solid, even good 2007 southern Rhones, but a bevy of them are like drinking a cranberry-vodka cocktail with lots of simple syrup. Nothing wrong with a cranberry-vodka cocktail once in a while, I guess, but not at $65+ a bottle.

Come to think of it, 2007 southern Rhone is the posterchild for the "Parker's-losing-it" camp. Based on what I've tasted from 2007 CDP, many of which make Monbousquet seem restrained and elegant, I have to agree.

Of course, we can invoke they're-too-young-to-judge chestnut and that may be so.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by JimHow »

Lol. Hey, 2007 wasn't Parkerization in the southern Rhone, it was better wine making.

You know, I actually enjoyed the 2007 and 2010 Vieux Telegraphes. I have zero idea how well/whether they will age.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Winesense »

Bordeaux (Sub-$30 USD):
Escurac 2003,2009,2010
About 20$
if it must not be available in the US:
Chateau L' Inclassabe (former Lafon) Medoc. most vitages

Bordeaux ($30-$50 USD):
La Fleur St, Emilion 2004,2005
Batailley Paulliac 1998,2005

QPR from Elsewhere (sub-$30):
tenute terre nere rosso etna sicilia italy.
You must taste it ....
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JimHow
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by JimHow »

Winesense: I had the 2009 d'Escurac recently, it was quite solid, a good 89 pointer. I will probably pick up a few more bottles. It was indeed $20 in New Hampshire.

Has anyone tried 2009 Chantegrive? $20 at Zachy's a "big time sleeper of the vintage" from HWSRN.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Winesense »

Thanks, Jim. It pleases me know that. There are many great choices in Cru Bourgois. What a shame that only so litlle of them are shipped to the US.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by DavidG »

JimHow wrote:I paid $88 each for two bottles of the 2010 VT in NH. It was Parkerized. Oh, it was good, don't get me wrong. I just can't afford any more!
This is another problem I have with the "Parkerized" label. I never know when someone means the price went through the roof because of a high score or if the alcohol and ripeness level went through the roof because of slavish devotion to Bob's love of those characteristics. The two don't always co-exist. At least Jim clarified for the VT.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

JimHow wrote:Lol. Hey, 2007 wasn't Parkerization in the southern Rhone, it was better wine making.

You know, I actually enjoyed the 2007 and 2010 Vieux Telegraphes. I have zero idea how well/whether they will age.
I found the '07 VT so difficult to drink that I skipped the 09 and 10. I actually passed on most 09s and 10s, but VT and Beaucastel, with their forward Mourvedre component, typically skips the grenache spikes in warm years, at least IMHO, but 07 jaded me. The 07 vintage I bought deeply. I was lured by how seductive the cotes du rhones were on early release, then with Bob's hype, I bought like a lemming. Half of the estates are undrinkable to me except perhaps as a "last of the evening" wine or in a party scenario. Usseglio. VT. Janasse. Bastide St. Dom. Just going off memory. Charvin and Ste. Cosme I really enjoyed. Vieux Donjon too. I would have sold half of my stock but my Dad, brother-in-law and some of my friends that I have over for dinner really enjoy them, so I enjoy popping these wines for them while i suck on my flavorless, vegetal, bretty Chinons! ;)
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by DavidG »

I too bought heavily in '07. We tasted a bunch of these young at a BWE annual dinner in Chicago within a year of release. They were certainly showing very ripe and alcoholic. I loved them but as cocktail wines. I'm still holding them and hoping they'll evolve into something drinkable with dinner, but I have to admit I'm not as sanguine about them as I am about Bordeaux. Mainly because there's no real precedent for this in CdP like there is in Bordeaux.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Jackdaw Dawson »

Bordeaux QPR: La Vielle Cure. Balanced, authentic Bordeaux without the flash. The 2001 drinking extremely well now, bottles at Zachys for around $35, maybe less.

General QPR - White: Domaine Herbauges Clos de la Fine Muscadet; scooped up a case of this on sale for around $11 per bottle. Pristine, clean, mineral-driven.

General QPR - Red: Right now, Chateau Saint Jean Plan de Dieu Cotes du Rhone 2011; has a wonderful "brown stalk" element with good fruit and earth, spice, chocolate, and a lactic quality that seals the deal for me.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

Jackdaw Dawson wrote:Bordeaux QPR: La Vielle Cure. Balanced, authentic Bordeaux without the flash. The 2001 drinking extremely well now, bottles at Zachys for around $35, maybe less.
The LVC is a wonderful little QPR. Recent vintages like 2009 are quite flashy though, IMHO. I bought a 6'er and it's well worth the $25 price. Bought 18 bottles of the '05, which is a very structured, solid Bdx that leans slightly modern (at least the last time I tried it). An excellent QPR in '05.

Anyone try the 2010 yet? My local guys has it for $25 as well.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by Blanquito »

How's the 05 LVC drinking these days per its tannins? I have around 2 cases but my last bottle a couple of years ago was still too tannic for current drinking.
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Re: You Have Once Choice: Name Your Best QPR and Bdx QPR

Post by OrlandoRobert »

The '05s shut down hard shortly after release - they were modestly open for a few short monts in my experience - so I tucked them away. I don't think I've had one in 4+ years.
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