Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

So as to make it completely fair for Jim, I would suggest we give him a choice of five to ten '00 wines and let Jim choose from them to be '02's competition:

I'd suggest:

'00 Pichon Baron
'00 Pichon Lalande
'00 Lynch
'00 Pape Clément
'00 Poyferre
'00 Barton
'00 Pontet-Canet

hm$

All those wines sound good to me, Howard and Nic, I'm in NYC today, I'll defer all final decisions to my attorney, Jimmy L.B. How....

As great as 2002L is, I've always felt St. Julien and Margaux in particular were especially sweet spots.

Excellent suggestions Nic! Comparing 2000L vs 2002L is a "tighter" theme. I like the idea of 3 pairs of wines, one pair each from Pauillac, Margaux and Pessac-Leognan.

At our current anticipated enrollment, we'll need 2 bottles of each wine. That would yield ~1.5 oz pours for everyone. Enough to taste but not enough to drink.

For Pauillac, I can bring a 2000 Pontet Canet or either Pichon. I'm inclined to go with the Pichon Baron as I think it will be more approachable than the Lalande or Pontet Canet. (Yes I am trying to stack the deck in favor of the 2000s.)

For Margaux, I can bring a 2000 Giscours.

For Pessac, Smith Haut Lafitte is a great choice and I can bring a bottle of the 2000.

If these choices sound ok, let's all chime in with what we've got in the cellar. I'll try to make sense of it all and come up with a plan that works.

If you want yo do St Julien, Jim, I could bring a 2000 Leoville Poyferre or Gruaud Larose.

I like any 3 or 4 of the following:

Pichon Baron
Leoville Poyferre
SHL
Lagrange
Cos
Lynch
Branaire
Leoville Barton
d'Issan
Haut Bailly
Palmer
Pontet Canet

I think Pichon Baron, Leoville Poyferre, SHL, and either d'Issan or Haut Bailly would be a good representation of the left bank from both vintages.

I could also bring a '00 Pichon Baron

hm$

I can bring 2002 Pichon Baron, 2002 SHL, 2002 Cos, 2002 Leoville Barton, 2002 Branaire.

Looks like there is some momentum building for both '00 and '02 Pichon Baron and SHL.

For the third wine, a Margaux or St Estephe? No '00 Cos in my cellar -anyone else?

They're afraid, because they know 2002 Cos will kick 2000 Cos's ass...

Well, I like 2000 Giscours and have a few bottles in the cellar.

Chris Bublitz

JimHow wrote:They're afraid, because they know 2002 Cos will kick 2000 Cos's ass...

Parker would agree with you that 2002 Cos is better than 2000 Cos. But what does he know?

2002 Cos d'Estournel
RATING: 93 points
DRINK: 2008 - 2020
SOURCE: WA, #158; Apr 2005

One of the candidates for wine of the vintage, this beauty has a dense purple color to the rim and a classic, noble nose of graphite intermixed with black currant, spice box, licorice, and red and black fruits. Medium to full-bodied with exceptional precision and definition, this beautifully textured wine stands out as one of the most successful wines of this irregular vintage. A brilliant effort, it should be at its best between 2008 and 2020.
-Robert Parker

2000 Cos d'Estournel
RATING: 91 points
DRINK: 2010 - 2025
SOURCE: WA, #189; Jun 2010

Showing some lightening at the edges as well as some amber, this is the least impressive of the greatest vintages for Cos d’Estournel between 2000 and 2009. It is an outstanding wine, but it is closer to maturity and lacking the concentration, texture, and overall compelling aromatics of more recent vintages. The wine displays roasted herbs intermixed with licorice, incense, black cherry, and black currant fruit. Medium-bodied, rather than full, elegant, with some spicy tannins and a nice sweet finish, compared to the other top classified growths, this wine is on a much faster evolutionary track and can be drunk now and over the next 15 or more years.
-Robert Parker

Even HWSRN himself is coming around to the fact that 2002L is the better vintage.

HWSRN gives vintage ratings of 88 for 2002 and 96 for 2000, so there''s a pretty broad gap between them. No doubt we could prove anything we want by selecting the right 3 wines to compare. The un-nameable cites the 2002 Cos as one of the most successful wines of an irregular vintage, while he says the 2000 is the least impressive Cos between 2000 and 2009.

Here are his scores and notes on the Giscours, the Pichon Baron and the SHL. Like the Cos, the Giscours ratings are within 2 points of each other, not much of a difference IMO, but with the Giscours the 2000 gets the higher rating. The 2000 Pichon Baron and SHL, however, get much higher ratings than their 2002 brethren in HWSRN's world. If you look past the scores to read the notes, the SHL and especially the Pichon Baron appear to epitomize the difference in styles between the two vintages.

I think BWEers will need to decide for themselves. Bring 'em on!

2002 Giscours
RATING: 90
DRINK: 2006 - 2021
SOURCE: WA, #158 Apr 2005

This sexy, broad effort exhibits medium to full body, sweet tannin, an inky ruby color, and notes of smoked herbs intermixed with charcoal, black cherries, and a hint of tobacco. The wine is round, seductive, yet surprisingly concentrated and luscious. Give it 1-2 years of cellaring as the tannins are slightly more noticeable than in the 2003, and drink it over the following 12-15 years.
-Robert Parker

2000 Giscours
RATING: 92 points
DRINK: 2006 - 2020
SOURCE: WA, #146 Apr 2003

Probably the finest Giscours made since the 1975, this black/purple-colored 2000 offers up terrific notes of camphor, creosote, blackberry, and cassis jam intermixed with notions of smoke and earth. Spicy, with low acidity, a big, rich, fleshy, full-bodied palate, outstanding texture, and a long, pure finish, it is, to reiterate, one of the best Giscours produced over the last 25 years. A sleeper of the vintage, it is still available for a realistic price.
-Robert Parker


2002 Pichon-Longueville Baron
RATING: 89 points
DRINK: 2006 - 2016
SOURCE: WA, #158 Apr 2005

This is an elegant, deep ruby-colored wine with notes of sweet cassis, cedar wood, and tobacco with a hint of chocolate in the background. It is a layered, moderately weighty wine with pretty, even understated fruit flavors, excellent concentration, and a long finish with relatively ripe tannin. Anticipated maturity: 2006-2016.
-Robert Parker

2000 Pichon-Longueville Baron
RATING: 97 points
DRINK: 2010 - 2030
SOURCE: WA, #189 Jun 2010

This is one of the great wines of the vintage, and certainly a candidate for one of the finest wines made at this estate under the management of Christian Seeley and proprietor AXA. Showing incredibly well at two tastings of 2000s, the wine has a dense bluish/purple color and a beautiful nose of incense, melted asphalt, and creme de cassis as well as hints of new saddle leather and licorice. It is superbly concentrated and very pure, with excellent texture and opulence. The acidity seems low, the tannin high but well-integrated. This is a compelling 2000 that is just closing in on its window of maturity and should stay there for at least 20 or more years. Bravo!
-Robert Parker


2002 Smith-Haut-Lafitte
RATING: 90 points
DRINK: 2008 - 2019
SOURCE: WA, #158 Apr 2005

This successful wine exhibits notes of ripe black currants and smoked herbs. With deep, concentrated, attractive flavors, medium body, sweet tannin, and decent acidity, this is an impressive, classic Graves that should drink well young yet age nicely for up to two decades. It is more structured and linear than the plump 2003, but both are top-notch efforts. Anticipated maturity: 2008-2019.

An estate run impeccably by the Cathiard family, Smith-Haut-Lafitte has been one of the bright shining stars of Bordeaux since the mid-1990s.
-Robert Parker

2000 Smith-Haut-Lafitte
RATING: 95 points
DRINK: -
SOURCE: WA, #189 Jun 2010

One can’t say enough about this winery, which may still fly under the radar of most consumers. The fully mature 2000 displays gorgeous aromas of camphor, lead pencil shavings, unsmoked tobacco, plums, and black currants. With full body, a velvety texture, and beautiful weight, richness, and length, this superb wine should evolve, possibly improve for another 15 years. It’s a beauty!
-Robert Parker

Checks arrived from Howard and Lisa and from Lori and Lee today.

It's shaping up to be another BWE Classic!

Let's git it on!

I think I can get 2002 Branaire, Barton and LasCases. I have no 2000 remaining.

I have a decent selection of 2000 and 2002 and can bring any of the following:

2000 and 2002
Calon Segur
Leoville-Barton
Lynch Bages
Mouton

2000 only:
Canon La Gaffeliere
Cos 'Estournel
Gruaud Larose
Smith Haut Lafite

2002 only:
La Mission Haut Brion
Lascombes

I have 00 and 02 Cos, but both at my sister's place in Philadelphia (which I won't be able to visit before heading to DC). So if anyone is passing through the Philadelphia area and can swing by my sister's to pick them up, that is a possibility.

Here's John Gilman's take on the vintages of the new millennium. He's got both 2000 and 2002 in the bottom half of the decade.

In terms of vintage, one has to remember that Bordeaux makes outstanding wines in a much larger number of vintages than those that are accorded "greatness", and I have been very happily drinking wines from the vintages of 1962, 1964, 1966 and 1971 over the last several years and paying lower prices for my temerity to not exclusively shop for "the best of the best". Global warming has also exacerbated the difficulties of handicapping young vintages, as the previous barometer of the ripest vintages often being equated with the highest quality (which may have indeed been the case in the first six or seven decades of the 20th century, when the region's unpredictable autumns often found the vines struggling to fully ripen crop loads) is far more problematic today, where superb ripeness is attained in eight vintages out of ten at the present time and it seems quite clear that ripeness is no longer (if it ever was) the preeminent consideration of ultimate vintage quality. However, it seems to me that ripeness is still accorded the same prominence in vintage handicapping as it was back in the '60s and '70s, despite the very real and dramatic changes in climate on the Gironde in recent times. I know that I am considered a contrarian when it comes to Bordeaux vintages, but in the first decade of the new milennium, my personal hierarchy of vintages runs thusly: 2005, 2008, 2009, 2001, 2006, 2000, 2007, 2010, 2002, 2004 and 2003- not exactly mirrored in most other claret commentating circles. But, I am not swayed primarily by ripeness in a given vintage (which is rather routine to obtain these days in any case), but by questions of balance, purity and freshness in young claret, as I find these are the attributes that most reward cellaring and often find their greater expressions in this day and age in what are termed "lesser vintages" by the "ripeness is all" circles. it is just a different approach to a complex region, which all too often has been painted as "easy to master" and defined by very, very broad bush strokes. Perhaps, when claret prices were lower, it was easier to to just focus one's purchasing on the top twenty estates, but not only the dramatic increases in prices that we have discussed already in this thread, but also dramatic stylistic changes amongst these properties makes such an approach far more likely to deliver disappointment than was the case when the 1982 vintage was released. But, the opportunities in the Bordeaux firmament are still out there and they are very real, not illusory, but one has to poke a bit below the surface to find the gems that remain relatively undiscovered.

I can't wait for a BWE convention, it has been a brutal winter!

I think Mr. Gilman forgot to precise that his favorite AOC are red Sainte-Foy Bordeaux and red Bordeaux Graves de Vayres, and his favorite Cru Classé is Château Croizet-Bages.

2007 better than 2010? Maybe for Cotton candy or Big Mac, but surely not for red Bordeaux.

Nic

Gilman is nothing if not controversial. I wouldn't say I agree with his preferences. He is more into the classic lower alcohol, higher acid vintages than I am. But he is an articulate writer with an interesting take on things.

I don't know him, and I've never read any paper from him. He probably has tried more Bordeaux than I, so maybe he is right finally! Of course, wine is quite a subjective thing.

So David, I'll bring some bottles of the 1993 Château Batailley to DC, and than we'll have a party, laughing about the 2003 vintage!

Nic

We're good for 2002 Poyferre, 2002 Branaire, 2002 Pape Clement (if anyone cares).
We'll also bring my last remnants of the famous duel at the 1st BWE convention in Chicago - a 1989 Lynch Bages and a 1989 Pichon Baron.

Wow!
Sounds like we've got some good options for the blind tasting.
We'll probably need 3 bottles of each, David, in case one is corked, no?

I can bring 3 bottles of 2002 Pichon Baron, did someone above say they have the 2000?

I have an '00 Baron......

hm$

I don't think I have any 2002s.
But can help with 2000s.

Also may have some 1989 LB and 1989 PB.

Hmm with two bottles of '89 Lynch, do we have enough for a ceremonial 89 Lynch-and-whoopie-pie ceremony? Probably could use another '89 Lynch. I'd try to get one but they've been going for over $400 at auction.

There is a rumor (don't know if it's true) that David Glasser has cornered the market in 1989 Lynch Bages. Maybe he can bring one. Of course he may be holding them back until the price gets to $1000 per bottle.

---------

OK, so I just made that one up. Actually, I can bring a bottle of 1989 Lynch Bages. I think the 89 Lynch and whoopie pie is is a tradition we need to keep up.

Chris Bublitz

Wow!!!!!!
I think that means we have three bottles of 1989 Lynch Bages!
The 1989 Lynch and whoopie pie tradition continues!!
I'll bring the native Maine chocolate cake treats!

David, got my second check?

JimHow wrote:Wow!!!!!!
I think that means we have three bottles of 1989 Lynch Bages!
The 1989 Lynch and whoopie pie tradition continues!!
I'll bring the native Maine chocolate cake treats!

So do we have 3 bottles of the 89 Baron?

Hmmmm!

Anyone else have an 89 LLC? I have a singleton I can contribute. I don't think I have any 02s but a few 00s such as Lafon Rochet-I need to check the inventory.

If we can find 3 bottles of 89 Pichon Baron I say we do a post-dinner blind tasting of these two great warriors, perhaps with whoopie pies. If we can't find 3 bottles of 89 Baron, I say we do a non-blind 89 Lynch with whoopie pie event.

Maybe not though, I think 89 Lynch is so rare nowadays we should just enjoy it on its own.

JimHow wrote:Maybe not though, I think 89 Lynch is so rare nowadays we should just enjoy it on its own.

What's the matter? Afraid of a little competition?

The two great warriors....

We'll have to see what the internationally-renowned lawyer and philanthropist Jimmy "Lynch 'The New Lafite' Bages" How thinks about such a rematch.

I have opened '00 & '02 Calon Segur, '00 & '02 Lagrange, '02 Pape Clement, '02 Leoville Poyferre. I might be able to dig out one or two others.