Guilty or Not Guilty?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:34 pm

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12 ... cutor?lite

What do you predict?

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:38 pm

guilty!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:58 pm

Guilty!

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:07 pm

That label sucked

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:17 pm

Innocent
Until proven otherwise....

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:31 pm

Jim,

Are you asking based on what the evidence was produced in the court now that the arguments are over? If so, Guilty...

I would have said same as Jacques if they are just in allegation phase and the court arguments are not made...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Yes I haven't been following it.
Is the jury out yet?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:57 pm

"Innocent
Until proven otherwise...."

Come on, Jacques; this is the US of A!

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:12 pm

He's guilty!

The jury is now out

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:13 pm

http://www.nst.com.my/latest/star-wine- ... l-1.437881

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:35 pm

What about all the "experts" who raved about Rudy's fake wine? Some made profits by selling it. Are any of them being investigated?

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:31 am

How about the auction houses and their experts who flogged this guys wines. Easy to say fraud is rampant and difficult to control but what will happen to any of the houses that sold Kurwanian fake bottles?? What recourse do the purchasers have? Come lawyers there must be some opinions out there.

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:57 am

I hope a man with a white beard is going to come down my chimney next week and leave me a case of 1945 Domaine de la Romanee-Conti !

Michael-P

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:17 am

Good question, Danny, whatever happened with the Koch lawsuits against HDH, Zachy's, etc.?
Seems to me there is potentially large civil liability.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:15 am

So does he get deported to Indonesia or are we stuck paying his room and board for the next xx years?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:17 am

Defense says they will appeal based on the search done by the FBI at the time of the arrest.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:21 pm

I suppose they're going to incarcerate him for a long time. <rolls eyes>

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:16 am

John Kapon probably made more $$ off of these frauds than Kurniawan did. The wine world is full of this guy's unindicted co-conspirators.

Plus, it seems that many of his victims were obnoxious rich people engaged in status consumption who probably deserved their fate.

Free Rudy!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:27 am

Amen! I'd give him 18 months and some probation.
In this incarceration-crazy country he'll probably get more like 18 years....

Rudi Finkler · Post by **Rudi Finkler** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:00 am

Konrad Kujau, the notorious Stuttgart forger of the Hitler Diaries, got 4 years and six months.
BTW, a few months after his early prison release, he called me and tried to convince me to make a film about him for the German television. The conversation was very amusing, but fruitless for him. I said to him that he was prominent enough and I would see no need to help him…

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:34 pm

I'd prefer to see Rudy K deported rather than incarcerated for many years in the US. But I suspect that as soon as he's out, he'll be back into the counterfeiting business. Probably in Asia, and less prominently. Unless his thirst for the limelight exceeds his desire for money.

I wonder if the auction houses involved face any serious liability. The statute of limitations for criminal charges based on the 2005 auctions has passed. Acker has offered a money back guarantee, which would appear to take the wind out of the sails of any civil claims. Is Acker at risk of losing its auction license in NY? Guess they could also just shift everything to Hong Kong.

It may be easy to scoff at the "obnoxious rich people engaged in status consumption" who were the most prominent victims here. I don't believe that excuses the crime. More importantly, I wonder how many others got burned with bottles costing a few hundred dollars? The $5-10,000 bottles got all the press, but Rudy had labels for a lot of other wines at his home. I don't think they were all super-rare and super-expensive.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:11 pm

Man, BWE used to be about pitchforks and revolutions and challenging the status quo.
Now I'm supposed to feel sorry for David Koch. Fuck David Koch.
His money has stolen more from the poor and working people than Rudi could ever steal in a thousand lifetimes.
And as for the "auctioneers" of those "gentlemen's cellars," do business with them at your own risk.
I wouldn't pay a wooden nickel for anything John Kapon was trying to sell me.
Not defending Rudi, he obviously deserves to be punished.
But as usual, the real culprits are getting away.
Interestingly, I got the impression from Ponsot that he's not thrilled about seeing Rudi get sent away.
But then again, he's from Europe, what do they know.
Rudi seems like a hapless, pathetic fool.
Give him 18 months, credit for time served, I say. Plus probation. Deport him if he's not a citizen.
Watch, he'll get some ridiculously long sentence, worthy of a murderer or some such thing.
Because that's what we do here in the USA, the country that incarcerates more people per capita than any other country, by an enormously high margin.

Rudi Finkler · Post by **Rudi Finkler** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:49 pm

I agree completely, Jim.
BTW, I remember that Parker once called Rudy “a very sweet and generous man” on the Squires Board…

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:50 pm

JimHow wrote: But as usual, the real culprits are getting away.

Who do you mean, Jim?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:52 pm

Ha ha, classic, Rudi, I wonder how many Rudi "rarities" Parker has rated?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:54 pm

Jacques, I don't believe for a minute that most of these auctioneers didn't have serious suspicions about these bottles they were selling.
At least in some of the cases.
I just don't believe it.

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:00 pm

I see, well Laurent Ponsot said that he contacted Kapon and asked him to withdraw the bottles of Clos Saint-Denis 1945-1949, saying that the wine didn't exist until 1982. He wasn't sure Kapon would, so he flew to NY and arrived at the auction a few minutes before it started, saw the bottles still on display and asked that they be removed. Only then, were they removed.

So I definitely see where you're coming from. Not a big leap of faith.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:09 pm

Yes that was exactly the point I was going to make.
Kapon was going to sell those wines even though he was told beforehand by Ponsot himself that they had to be fake.
Oh well, maybe the system is being cleansed.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:53 pm

I agree, Jim, that the auction houses were complicit and I think they will get off scot free. Unless someone comes forward with a complaint to the NYC Commissioner of Consumer Affairs to challenge their auction license, it will likely be business as usual for Acker.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Did Kapon ever answer why he was going to sell those Ponsot wines even after he'd been told by Ponsot himself that the wines had to be fake? I mean it's bad enough if he didn't do minimal due diligence. But when he tries to sell the wines even after knowing they're fake, how is that not criminal? Did Ponsot save Kapon's ass by showing up? Am I getting my facts wrong on this? If not, how does that guy still have his job?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:06 pm

I would have loved to see what would have happened had Ponsot simply snuck in and lurked in the back of the room, just waiting for the Ponsot fakes to come up. Let Kapon announce them, maybe even take a bid or two, and then raise his own paddle, exclaiming that the wines were fake. That would have been some good theater.

As to whether Kapon committed fraud, I suspect that a good prosecutor could probably dig up enough evidence to make a case, but the statute of limitations has run on Rudy's Acker sales.

Here's the Hosemaster's take on the Rudy affair, goings-on at the Wine Advocate and with other prominent wine reviewers, and other vinous stuff that happened this year. Pretty funny.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:18 pm

Funny stuff. That's right, Burghound rated Rudy's wines, right? But how can that be. Burghound surely must have been able to tell they were fakes. Because he has the best palate for Burgundy in the known universe. How can that possibly be?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:07 am

Burghound rated Rudy's wines, in some cases expressing doubts, in at least one case raving about the wine. He then went back later and altered the notes in his database to remove any mention that they were Rudy's wines after the merde hit the ventilateur. Allen Meadows was also paid by Acker for contributing to the auction catalog, though it appears that AMC might have used some Burghound notes from non-Rudy tastings to pimp the Rudy auction. It's a sorry mess. I believe that Meadows was an unsuspecting dupe, overwhelmed by the hype and surroundings and ego of it all, like most of the critics, rather than a knowing accomplice, but he had to have suspicions at some level. He came off looking a lot worse than any of the other critics in this affair as he was much more closely associated with the wines involved than Parker or anyone else. Though Rudy did attend a couple of dinners with RP as part of a group that placed a winning bid on a charity dinner Parker hosted. Rudy didn't bring any wines to those events, though he bought a couple bottles off of the restaurant lists.

The other big loser critic in these fraud affairs was Michael Broadbent, who was associated with Hardy Rodenstock's extravagant tastings. He's probably got numerous notes on counterfeit wines that he never realized were fakes. And he was supposed to be the nonpareil of old-wine experts. Parker attended one of the Rodenstock affairs and was also likely duped.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:25 am

Thanks for the link, David. That guy is funny.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:39 am

Thanks for that info, David, I was unaware of that. What a mess. It's sort of like the baseball steroids scandal. A real taint on the game.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:46 am

JimHow wrote:Did Kapon ever answer why he was going to sell those Ponsot wines even after he'd been told by Ponsot himself that the wines had to be fake? I mean it's bad enough if he didn't do minimal due diligence. But when he tries to sell the wines even after knowing they're fake, how is that not criminal? Did Ponsot save Kapon's ass by showing up? Am I getting my facts wrong on this? If not, how does that guy still have his job?

Another thing about this... it wasn't just the Ponsot wines that were fake. There were many others. Kapon's introduction in the catalog for The Cellar auction detailed how he painstakingly examined all of the bottles to authenticate them. There were more than a few examples with blatant errors - misspellings, clearly faked labels, etc. So to say he honestly believed that they were all authentic he would have to admit to/claim gross incompetence.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:04 am

Yeah, it just doesn't pass the straight-face test.

tim · Post by **tim** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:02 am

I recently viewed some of the evidence from the trial. OMG. The volume of counterfeit wine that was being produced goes far beyond what is being reported, and even though the trial focused on Burgundy, he created an equal amount or more of fake Bordeaux. I can say with confidence that there is likely a lot of Rudy's wine in BWE cellars. He put massive amounts of fakes on the market through various intermediaries. As an example, in evidence were many well-used stamps for stamping Chateau names onto corks. As well as well-used stencils for wooden cases. At this point, I would be skeptical of any first or second growth on the market (including the equivalent right-bank) that was not purchased at release.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:39 am

Tim, the price of most second growth wines is too low to merit counterfeiting them. If the retail price of a wine is e.g. $100, a counterfeiter could not expect to get more than $60 and it is just not practical to sell enough to make a decent living.

tim · Post by **tim** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:55 am

I'm only reporting what I saw, and the counterfeiting was not limited to the first growths.