2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

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JimHow
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2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by JimHow »

I haven't really been keeping track. Are these all weak vintages?
And is that a good thing or a bad thing for the consumer?
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Jeff Leve »

2012 is OK. Pomerol is the best appellation by far. 2011 is weak. 2013 is worse. Too early to tell with 2014, but it will not be great. Each vintage is different and appeals to a different consumer with different needs and different levels of income. So, it really does not matter to the consumer.
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Chateau Vin
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Chateau Vin »

Jeff Leve wrote:2012 is OK. Pomerol is the best appellation by far. 2011 is weak. 2013 is worse. Too early to tell with 2014, but it will not be great. Each vintage is different and appeals to a different consumer with different needs and different levels of income. So, it really does not matter to the consumer.
Based on reports, I thought 2011 is slightly better than 2012...Tasted 2011, but have not tasted any 2012. So don't know between the two...
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Chateau Vin wrote:
Jeff Leve wrote:2012 is OK. Pomerol is the best appellation by far. 2011 is weak. 2013 is worse. Too early to tell with 2014, but it will not be great. Each vintage is different and appeals to a different consumer with different needs and different levels of income. So, it really does not matter to the consumer.
Based on reports, I thought 2011 is slightly better than 2012...Tasted 2011, but have not tasted any 2012. So don't know between the two...
Just curious, but what reports show 2011 as being better than 2012?
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Musigny 151
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Musigny 151 »

I agree with Jeff that 2012 is better than 2011, but in both vintages, there are some very good wines that will repay someone prepared to cellar them for twenty years. But the problem is not with the wines, but that they are still overpriced, the result of pushing the 2010s to record levels and then discounting lesser vintages from those record levels. Unfortunately, what it essentially means is that the three earlier vintages 2011-2013 (let's not worry about 2014 until the grapes have been harvested) are still overpriced compared to what the savvy shopper can find in earlier vintages.

The likelihood is that most of these wines will never leave Europe, in fact they probably won't leave France, and will be sold on the cheap. So for the most part, they will be largely irrelevant to the American consumer.
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DavidG
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by DavidG »

Fodder for the foire au vins... Alex and Tim will be able to load up on the cheap, but will they be worth it even at those prices?

Hey, if you consider that the decade starts with 2011, 2012 could be considered the vintage of the decade so far!
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AlexR
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by AlexR »

Ah, these vintage généralisations...

David, do you know the prices at the Foire aux Vins?
You imply that they are expensive, but I don't find them to be.

Here's one example picked out of a hat: http://courses.carrefour.fr/drive/foire ... ID0/651009

Alex R.
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Chateau Vin
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Chateau Vin »

Jeff Leve wrote:
Just curious, but what reports show 2011 as being better than 2012?
Jeff, they were basically magazine/newspaper articles, not like vintage reports or from reputable sources. Don't remember. Of course couple of articles do not represent the correct picture. Good to know that 2012 is better than 2011 for my liking and needs... :mrgreen:
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greatbxfreak
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by greatbxfreak »

Jeff,

I don't know why you value 2012 higher than 2011. Especially on the right bank 2011 seems better than 2012 as tasted during primeur week this year.

I'm going to taste several wines from these two vintages, some 2009s and 2010s and a lot of 2008s tomorrow, when Bordeaux negociant Beyerman's annual tasting in Cph takes place.

Will report on that.
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Chateau Vin
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Chateau Vin »

I was looking for where I read the article...Here is the article quoting Parker saying that 2011 is akin to 2008 and 2001. I also remember someone on this forum talking about 2011 being similar to 2008. If 2011 is similar to 2008 or 2001 (which I doubt) that makes me think that 2011 is decent vintage compared to 2012. Just trying to put 2+2 = 4. Don't know if it's true generally across the vintage and regions...I have not tasted any 2012. So can't say other than making inferences from the tidbits that I have read here and there...

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2012/0 ... -expected/
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Jeff Leve »

greatbxfreak wrote:Jeff,

I don't know why you value 2012 higher than 2011. Especially on the right bank 2011 seems better than 2012 as tasted during primeur week this year.
Izak.. Because, having tasted about 500 in each vintage, the wines are much better in 2012. They are riper, offer more depth and complexities and less greeness. Pomerol was quite successful. The wine of the vintage is clearly L'Eglise Clinet.
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Chateau Vin wrote:I was looking for where I read the article...Here is the article quoting Parker saying that 2011 is akin to 2008 and 2001. So can't say other than making inferences from the tidbits that I have read here and there...

http://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2012/0 ... -expected/
I am not sure you it's fair to extrapolate a comparison between 11 & 12 from that article. Especially since that article was written before the 2012 harvest, let alone before 2013, when the wines were even produced and tasted. :mrgreen:

But having tasted the wine, and being more than famillar with the grpwing season in each year, 12 is a reasonable vintage. My guess is, many of the wines will score at the top end of Parkers range, and the better wines will exceed his original scores. For example, Pontet Canet & Ducru.

For detailed info on 2011 - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/cat ... otographs/

For detailed info on 2012 - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/cat ... otographs/
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Chateau Vin
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Chateau Vin »

Jeff Leve wrote:
I am not sure you it's fair to extrapolate a comparison between 11 & 12 from that article. Especially since that article was written before the 2012 harvest, let alone before 2013, when the wines were even produced and tasted. :mrgreen:

But having tasted the wine, and being more than famillar with the grpwing season in each year, 12 is a reasonable vintage. My guess is, many of the wines will score at the top end of Parkers range, and the better wines will exceed his original scores. For example, Pontet Canet & Ducru.

For detailed info on 2011 - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/cat ... otographs/

For detailed info on 2012 - http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/cat ... otographs/
Yep. The article was before any winemaking of 2012 vintage, and is not the best way to compare 2011 and 2012.

Now that I have tasted 2011s, I am eager to do the 2012 vintage UGC tasting next year and see which one I like better. Not that I am gonna buy generously from either of the vintages, but glad to know I can buy few better 2012s as it was my son's birth year. Wow, its good to know your top 2012s :P . I have recently purchased Pontet Canet, Ducru, Cos and LLC so far. I will buy few 2012 Cali cabs, and I am done... :lol:
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Chateau Vin wrote:Yep. The article was before any winemaking of 2012 vintage, and is not the best way to compare 2011 and 2012.


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Now that I have tasted 2011s, I am eager to do the 2012 vintage UGC tasting next year and see which one I like better.

Problem with that in 2012 is, the best wines are from Pomerol in 2012 and not many Pomerol estates are in the UGC. Still, it will give you a good idea what to look for.
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Musigny 151
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Re: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014. Are these all weak vintages?

Post by Musigny 151 »

While I prefer the 2012s overall to the 2011, we are sophisticated enough now to buy individual wines rather than buy something like a second growth based on a vintage. In fact, with lesser vintages, nobody really cares, and these two vintages are a perfect example of why. I will make my buying decisions on overall value and quality.
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