Long rant: Berns in Tampa

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jal
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Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by jal »

Jill and I along with another couple went to Berns Saturday night, we went excited and expecting a unique experience, we left a little disappointed.
BTW, I know the idea is not to talk about Berns in wine forums so that the wine list remains a secret, I think it's a stupid notion, I will ignore it.
Reservation for 9:30pm, we are probably the last table to be seated. Also one of the last people to leave two and a half hours later.
The list itself is huge, we decided straight away to on a budget: $500 for wines, more than we ever spent on wine in a restaurant by a large margin. We figure it's a unique occasion. We also decided that since it's a steakhouse we'll go for Bordeaux or Rhones.
On the list, the bargains are hard to spot, we finally find a 1979 Leoville Las Cases for $179, we also decided to start with a White Burg and I pick the 2007 Louis Jadot Puligny Montrachet Clos de La Garenne Duc de Magenta.
The sommelier tells me right away the LLC is long gone, he tries to steer us to a 1979 Petit Village which I decline, I asked him to bring the Puligny while we look for another red.
The white arrives and I immediately notice something is wrong, the bottle is too warm, the texture looks weird, the color a little dark, sure enough on the nose it's premoxed. To our annoyance, the sommelier suggests we decant and see how it develops, Jill says out loud: "I hate it when waiters argues with me about wine, this wine is disgusting!" I love this woman! The guy backs off and suggests a 2007 Puligny Ramonet, I refuse and pick a 2008 Jadot Combettes. The Combettes arrives, the bottle feels warm, the wine looks dark brown even before he opens the bottle, I won't take the risk of another bad bottle, I decide 2011 Bouchard Meursault Perrieres, thinking a 2011 hasn't had time to go bad even if they store their whites at room temperature in Florida. The Meursault arrives, it's too warm but it's fine. We accept it, the price is fair $130. It develops nicely during the evening and we like the wine well enough.
For the Bordeaux, very few bargains from good years, everything cheap is either from 1980, 1987, 1991 or 1992. I am too scared to go too old even though they seem to have good prices on wines from every decade of the 20th century. We settle on a 2004 La Mission for $280, a fair price. The wine is good but not earth shatteringly good.
As for the food; mediocre is a compliment: my shrimp cocktail could be coming from anywhere though the sauces were good, the chateaubriand is tasteless, it needs a steak sauce to bring out any flavor, the dessert, a banana cream pie is waaay too sweet.
I could describe the wines in more details but there was nothing particularly good or bad about them, just ok wines at a fair price. Hence the question about Berns: What's is the big deal about that place? Just a mediocre steakhouse with mediocre wines at not exorbitant prices.
Best

Jacques
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Nicklasss
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by Nicklasss »

Good/fun read. But a no fun restaurant evening for you...

I hâte it when I order a wine from the list, and it is long gone. Please, remove it or put a scratch on it. One time I went to a local restaurant, and had chance with the fourth bottle I choose... I was about to leave. And a bit the same as you, it is even worst when the sommelier propose something really different than what you expect (in your case, why proposing a 1979 Pomerol, when you wanted a 1979 Pauillac? Personnally, of course I'm a no money guy, If I was the sommelier, I would have offer another Pauillac or Médoc comparable, even If slightly more expensive, for the same price as the 1979 Pichon Lalande).

The wine prices in restaurants are so high, that when I convince myself to go for it, of course I want it to be perfect (the right bottle, the right vintage, the right température, the right service, etc...). Any little imperfection and I'm loosing some pleasure.

Fortunately, there is a very great restaurant here, i don't go often, but I never been deceived.

Nic
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JimHow
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by JimHow »

Fun read indeed.
Why are people not allowed to talk about the Berns wines on line?
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DavidG
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by DavidG »

Jacques, thank you for that honest report. We can always count on you for the unvarnished truth.

I've been to Berns once, with my brother. We went with the same mindset and expectations that you did.

I'm surprised that bottles they brought you were warm. Their cellars are very cool and all 3 reds we drank on our visit needed to warm up to show well. Something strange going on there. Sure, you are taking some risk on premox with modern era white Burgs, but compounding the risk with poor storage makes no sense for a place that bases its reputation on wine.

I'm not surprised by your comments on the food. Our steaks were large, but not remarkably tender or flavorful. Some people rave - I didn't get it - but figured my experience was perhaps the outlier.

As to the whole "First rule of Berns is don't talk about Berns" - that is a bit of a confection cooked up by folks who go frequently and give the somm a budget and a goal and ask him to select their wines, like there is a secret handshake or something to get the good stuff. I think that's a fantasy. We went as first-timers with less of a wine budget than you (albeit 10 years ago), and told the somm we wanted Bdx and Rhone with some real age on it but still alive. I think the real secret of Berns is to let the somms pick the wine, at least based on my single visit (but WTF if they think a premoxed Burg will get better with some air?!?!). Berns has hundreds of thousands of bottles in the restaurant and across the street, many of them very old, presumably past prime, but preserved by their very cool cellar temps (again I am scratching my head after reading Jacques' tale of the warm bottles). Other than an old Vieux Telegraphe that I would have thought should be long over-the-hill but which was great, the other two reds and the Sauternes we drank were unknown to me. But they filled the bill nicely for wines showing great tertiary development and a lot of interesting complexity. And for about $100/bottle.

I would go back, but for the wines, not the steaks. And I'd reject any warm bottles on presentation. Still surprised by that when their reputation is built on a very cold cellar.
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RDD
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by RDD »

We had a better meal here at home.
A old high school bud dropped by and Susan whipped up a great meal.
London broil for a table of eight.
Some Pol Roger White Label to kick things off.
Two bottles of 1995 Clinet that were singing.
Some Müller-Catoir 1994 Rieslaner Auslese
Some 1990 ZH VT Gewurztraminer
And some 2001 Selbach-Oster Eiswein
And an amazing trifle Susans and Claire made.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/patr ... ecipe.html

Great way to spend a rainy Sunday afternoon.
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Carlos Delpin
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by Carlos Delpin »

I've always enjoyed myself at Bern's. The key for me is to choose the wines with the Somm way before getting there (phone and email) and to recognize that the purpose of the visit is to enjoy mature wines. The food is just for sustenance.
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OrlandoRobert
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by OrlandoRobert »

jal wrote: I am too scared to go too old even though they seem to have good prices on wines from every decade of the 20th century.
Hi jal -

OrlandoBobby here. I live about 75 miles from Bern's so go there a bit, 3 times in the past year. I am really sad to hear of your experience as the place is so like nirvana for so many oenophiles. Of course, it has to deliver, and I guess from time to time a restaurant simply does not step up to the task. I'd say give it one more chance, for many of us, it's that good. I hope your next time is wonderful.

Respectfully, I'd say the main mistake was being "scared" to go deep at Bern's. That is precisely what makes this place so amazingly special. Bern's has case after case after case of old wine, notably Bordeaux, from great years like 1961, 1949, 1947, 1934, etc., that were bought decades ago and stored at atypically cold temps, I think around 49 degrees. I got a private tour of their "back" storage recently - not in the restaurant - and was amazed by what they had. Every turn was unopened cases of decades old Bordeaux, one corner had an unopened stack of four cases of 1961 Leovilles. I've never had an off-bottle of mature red there (well, one Chinon like 10 years ago). When I had an off white burg recently, they replaced it without blinking an eye.

This past year I have had the following wines, all of which blew me away:

1947 Ch. Haut Bailly
1950 Ausone
1953 Ausone
1961 Pavie (375) - almost too young (priced about like a new Pavie retail)!
1926 Leoville Barton
1920 Leoville Barton
1920 Leoville Poyferre - hand typed label!
1964 Thomas Freres Beaune-Greves (2, 375s) - OMG the nose!!

The wines, for me, have always served at ideal temperatures and I tend to like my wines cooler than most. The service, impeccable.

I normally call ahead for one of the sommeliers, like Brad, for input and they will personally serve you. And you do not have to break the bank to get that level of service. One night I had the '47 Haut Bailly and '61 Pavie for just a few bucks over your budget.

The dessert room is overrated. I would skip the desserts entirely, rarely good for me. The ambience is odd, too, very tight and almost 1980s-ish. I will go there for a cheese plate and an after dinner Madiera or mature Sauterne. The Madieras from the 1800s are just a crazy treat, but admittedly, painfully expensive.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Nothing is designed to piss off folk like us more than an arrogant, patronising, sommelier trying to stuff you with flawed wine served at the wrong temperature!

The lesson Jacques is that you should stay closer to home at Kittle House. (I know it is not as close to home as it was).
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RDD
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by RDD »

Kittle House rules!
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jal
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by jal »

Thank you all for your comments. David, Carlos and OrlandoRobert, maybe I should have tried to contact the sommelier ahead of time, I never know the right strategy to take with these big wine lists full of "bargains". I have been burned before at La Panetiere in Rye, NY

That said, no sommelier was around when we sat down, we had to ask for one. He took a while to come, he wasn't very pleasant, at some point, we were joking that after Jill's comment, he would be injecting something in the bottle.

Also, I stand by my comments about the warm bottles of White Burgs. I prefer my White Burgs closer to room temperature, these were definitely warmer than the room.

Again, I hate returning bottles when I have to confront a sommelier, especially if we're a bunch of people. I didn't want to take the risk and I didn't trust that guy to be honest with us once he opened a bad bottle so I took the safe approach. Maybe a mistake but who wants a scene when you're dining out?

Last, the situation begs the question: would one rather have great wines with mediocre food or great food with mediocre wines? Obviously we all want good food and good wines but that is not always possible. When a restaurant has a great list but passable food, it makes me think twice. I know I want a great meal and I'd rather have a decent bottle with my meal rather than have an iffy meal with a phenomenal bottle.

I don't know if I'll ever go back, we'll see, maybe if accompanied by a Berns regular who can navigate these intricacies better than a newbie like me.

We do go to Sarasota very often and the food and wine scene is very hit and miss in the area, but most restaurants allow corkage. I might as well bring a good bottle to a good place.
Best

Jacques
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RDD
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by RDD »

Jacques:
If you ever drive again, Jill knows the half way point.
And I'll make you drink premox'ed Verget!
All the best!
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jal
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by jal »

Comte Flaneur wrote:Nothing is designed to piss off folk like us more than an arrogant, patronising, sommelier trying to stuff you with flawed wine served at the wrong temperature!
Ian, you're right, the reason the whole evening failed is due to the sommelier's attitude more than anything else.
RDD wrote: And I'll make you drink premox'ed Verget!
Rob, for the pleasure of your's and Susan's company, I'll drink it.
Best

Jacques
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DavidG
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by DavidG »

Jacues, I wasn't questioning your call on the warm bottle. Just surprised that it happened. You (or Jill) clearly did the right thing.
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jal
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by jal »

Sorry David, I didnt mean to sound defensive. Everyone was surprised that I found the allegedly cold wine storage of Berns warm that I thought I needed to reiterate. I apologize.
Best

Jacques
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sdr
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by sdr »

I haven't been to Berns in a long time, but my experience was mildly positive.

Back then, the wine book was a 10 pound tome with hundreds of pages chained to the wall so you couldn't steal it (you could buy it, though). A new book was printed every few years. Naturally, the gems were quickly snapped up. Pricing was very low (old Spanish, Italian) to very reasonable (mainstream Bordeaux, Rhone, Burgundy, California). A few trophy wines were expensive for retail, but not for a restaurant. The vintage depth was amazing once you finally picked something they actually had. I ended up with a 1964 Faiveley Corton Clos des Corton. The wine was very good, but what I remember most is how cold it was - icy, refrigerator cold. I don't recall the other wines, but none were oxidized or warm. Not being a steak lover, I haven't been back, but the entire meal then was okay, but nothing special.
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Musigny 151
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Re: Long rant: Berns in Tampa

Post by Musigny 151 »

I am going to Florida to see my brother-in-law and his five grand-children in December. I love them dearly, but he real reason I am going was that I was able to negotiate an evening of escape at Berns. I have never been there; now I am worried. Am I trading a week of yelling screaming children for one night of mediocre warm white wines?
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