Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

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Michael-P
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Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Michael-P »

Not making much progress myself so I am wondering if paying for some good lawyers might help me get my future orders for 2009s placed in summer 2010.
Who were the lawyers Koch used?
Any other suggestions in California for this?
Ugh!

Michael-P
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AKR
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

You chasing a certain greater Bay Area firm? Lawyering up might just be throwing good money after bad.

(you still coming up to Sac for offline later this month?)
Last edited by AKR on Fri May 08, 2015 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JimHow
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

Sue the bastards.
I don't know how they get away with that.
I can't believe there aren't some consumer protection or unfair or deceptive trade practice laws that don't come into play.
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AKR
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

Look carefully at whatever sales documentation you may have from the seller.

Most of the time, my futures receipts have always contained a huge amount of weasel out clauses, irrespective of vendor.

If the vendor is who I think it is, I don't see any obvious weasel clauses, and their web site T&C don't say anything either.

But I'm not sure how you can compel them to perform.

I used the info in a thread on the WB board to come up with a negotiated solution that worked for me. It helped that it was a de minimus amount of money, and that I found something they had in stock, at a price I thought agreeable enough, that I proposed that as a solution.

However if you are owed magnums of 09 first growths or something, multiple cases over, there may not be much you can do, other than get the retainer check out. I don't think they will easily agree to taking the big losses needed to resolve their unmet orders. There's some guy on another board who is waiting on a 120k of swill from said vendor. Unless there's some global market crash, BDX crash (probably intertwined with the first), or a Euro crash -- it seems to me that there is a strong bid competing for 2009. So I don't see how the vendor fills the orders 'on the cheap'. Sure maybe 2011 or 2013 is not an issue. But a peak, top vintage?
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DavidG
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

I got my last 2005s from PC last year. It's only been 5 years since you ordered, and 2 years past the time that most retailers delivered EP purchases. If the wines were in high demand, I figure you'll see them in another 2-3 years. Maybe less.

What do they say when you call them? Not that you'll get the same story twice.
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AKR
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

It doesn't really matter what they say.

The reality is that they don't have the wines. They don't have vendors committed to selling them to them either. The wines are not stuck on a boat, or customs, or what not.

They are waiting to buy them until they are cheaper -- whether that's a distressed specific seller, a distressed wine market, or a distressed currency. They have been waiting a number of years obviously, and given that normal customers, the ones who are non litigious, don't seem to be rebelling yet, perhaps this can keep going on.

If the 2009's constantly go up in price, it makes it very hard to shake loose inventory at the price they need to fulfill their orders.

Obviously I do hope they stay in business and make good on all their promises, and not just for my sake.

Someone in the trade did a study showing how on average futures purchases have not generated any value for customers since 2004 in aggregate, btw. (In the sense that people got wines for cheaper than what they eventually landed for). If one has to account for the value in the inability to sample/consume something like 2005 until 2015 because of 'delivery delays' that reduces the utility even more. Of course along the way there might have been pockets of value.

But to me, the fact that there are wine funds prowling Bordeaux, trying to generate investment returns, is a sign that is very counter cyclical. When the buzzards have arrived to the party, there's no meat left on the bones.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

If what you say is right, Arv -- and I believe you ARE right -- then I just don't understand the difference between what they are doing and what Rare did. And I just can't believe that there aren't consumer protection laws in California that allow such deceptive practices. When they advertise the wines they don't disclose this information, that is, that they have no more claim to these wines that they are taking hundreds of thousands -- millions(?) -- of dollars for that they have no more right to than you or I. And if what you say is true, then how do they get away with telling something else to consumers like MichaelP who follow up on the status of products for which they have paid them thousands of dollars? I just can't believe California law allows such deceptive commerce. The consumer protection laws of states like Maine and Mass. don't allow such conduct, and I'm sure that's the case in most states.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

Are we definitely taking about PC here?
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

Arv, what you write seems to makes sense, but how could they sustain the practice you describe as long as they have and through a major recession without defaulting?

Jim, the difference between PC and Rare is that, year after year, PC delivers. Eventually. Or gives your money back. Is it illegal to sell pre-arrivals without a signed contract for the wine, if that is indeed what they are doing?

MichaelP, I think you have 3 viable options to be made whole. Hiring a lawyer is not one of them unless Jim is ready to offer his services pro bono. You can wait, you can ask for your money back, or you can make a deal with PC for other wines that are in stock.

When faced with a similar scenario with my 2005s, I chose to wait. I wasn't in a hurry to drink the wines or sell them, and I really wanted the wines I ordered. I went through a similar period of frustration when the wines were about 2 years overdue. There was always "a container waiting to be filled" or the wines were "on the water" when I would call, but they always seemed to be destined to fill other orders, presumably placed before mine. I finally gave up on asking for an explanation and just resigned myself to calling prior to spring and fall shipping season each year to see if the wines were in. And you do need to call, as they don't reliably update your online account status showing what's in and ready to ship.

Every bottle eventually showed up, and in pristine condition. Even the wine that got promoted to the magic RP100 and tripled in price not long after I ordered it.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

I'll add that I no longer buy pre-arrivals from PC, though it's more out of impatience and having passed the log growth wine accumulation phase than out of fear that I'll be stiffed. There have been some very tempting deals lately for those with patience and nerves.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

See that's where I disagree with you David.
Rare "delivered" until they didn't.
Bernie Madoff "delivered" until he didn't.
Just because PC is "delivering" -- for now at least -- doesn't make it right.
I mean, what would happen to the guy who has $120k on the line if PC suddenly went out of business?
There would be no wines for him.
If another store went out of business -- one who did a normal model of futures -- ie, they have actually purchased wines that will be delivered in the future -- then the buyer would at least get their wines in the liquidation.
The reason why I think PC is not doing anything illegal is because they are so audacious in their practice of taking money for wines that they don't have. Surely somebody would have intervened by now from the state.
Maybe I just come from a different culture up here in the Puritan northeast, where our liquor is so heavily regulated. Something like this would NEVER happen in Maine, NH, Mass.
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JimHow
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

California has a deceptive trade practices law, I'm just a country lawyer from Maine, I'd be curious to know why it would not apply in a case like this.

http://businesslaw.uslegal.com/deceptiv ... ices-laws/
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DavidG
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

I hear you Jim. I honestly don't know if what they are doing would be considered illegal and they just haven't been caught because they haven't defaulted enough to have complaints. Or if, as I am inclined to believe, they are above-board with an unusual business model that's at greater risk for failure. The former is Rare/Madoff territory, the latter is not. We may never know unless they do fail, at which point I suppose their finances would be subject to outside scrutiny.

I'm not a lawyer of any sort, but I'll take a look at that link and see if I can understand it.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

So a quick read of the link to the California law and the PC website, which does say "pre-arrivals are wines we have purchased" does raise the question of deception if they really haven't purchased the wines. I suppose a slick DC lawyer could have some fun with the meaning of "purchased," but I'm inclined to put my money on the simple country lawyer from Maine.

Another thing about that link to the CA law is that it looks like there needs to be injury or damage to bring action. As long as the customer is made whole, I guess it's hard to claim damages. Which goes back to the warning about scams that worked until they didn't. That's an important precaution to those who are inclined to put a lot of money into PC pre-arrivals.

But if PC hadn't already contracted for the wines, I'm still having trouble understanding how they could have survived the recession and still delivered on a ton of 2005s that became more expensive to acquire between the time they took the orders/money and when they delivered the wines. The price of 2005 Lafite didn't exactly tank during the recession. It spiked 50% on release in 2008 and though it went down a bit during the recession it always remained 100% above the en primeur price. Where would a Ponzi scheme get the money to buy those wines when very little new money was coming in to the system due to the recession and a string (2006-2008) of less than orgasmic vintages? Maybe that's why they took soooo long with some of the 2005s... had to wait for 2009 vintage of the century pre-arrival dollars to roll in?
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

We will have our PC wine "steals" clawed back as part of a PC dissolution and settlement?
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Jay Winton »

MP, if you used a cc, they might assist.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

Patrick, a significant number of my PC steals are no longer recoverable.

Jay, I didn't hear MichaelP say he'd had trouble obtaining or that he'd even asked for a refund, but that he wanted the darn wine. If it did come to a credit card dispute, I've heard stories covering a wide range of responses from card issuers for non-delivered futures orders. The main variables seem to be the time allowed from purchase to make a complaint and the definition of when the clock starts ticking for a purchase for future delivery. It would be useful to know which issuers are most consumer-friendly in that regard.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

Not sure if you ordered wines in non standard formats, but it's always half bottles that give me issues with PC prearrivals.

When I've grown tired of waiting (which only happened with 05 and 09 Bordeaux half bottles, every 750 I've ordered from PC through the years has arrived in a reasonable period of time ~3 years or less), PC eventually gave me 750s of the same wines with a 33% bonus in total volume I received (eg by replacing 3 half bottles into 2 standard bottles). In fact, the last batch of these deals just arrived yesterday with 750s of 09 Calon Segur, St Pierre, Beychevelle, d'Armailhac, Pichon Lalande. These wines are all much pricer today than when I ordered them, especially the St Pierre and Pichons which I paid like half price for.

Given these swaps, terrific prices, and that the wines always arrived in perfect condition, I've always been a satisfied customer. But it's gotten harder of late to get straight answers and my main contact there "retired". I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle/worry anymore. I definitely am limiting my exposure, though the champagne offers have been hard to resist.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

JimHow wrote:See that's where I disagree with you David.
Rare "delivered" until they didn't.
Bernie Madoff "delivered" until he didn't.
Just because PC is "delivering" -- for now at least -- doesn't make it right.
I mean, what would happen to the guy who has $120k on the line if PC suddenly went out of business?
There would be no wines for him.
If another store went out of business -- one who did a normal model of futures -- ie, they have actually purchased wines that will be delivered in the future -- then the buyer would at least get their wines in the liquidation.
The reason why I think PC is not doing anything illegal is because they are so audacious in their practice of taking money for wines that they don't have. Surely somebody would have intervened by now from the state.
Maybe I just come from a different culture up here in the Puritan northeast, where our liquor is so heavily regulated. Something like this would NEVER happen in Maine, NH, Mass.
Yup. That's the part where its getting odd. We've all dealt with PC for what 15 years plus? And whether its anecdote, or the recent flurry of vintage of the century, the delivery part is getting harder. Rare was fairly blatantly blowing money on stuff that had nothing to do with wine - BMWs, fancy tastings etc. And they were selling things that industry insiders said were simply not bottled - La Tour a Pomerol in Jeroboam - as a hypothetical example.

People who've gotten deliveries -- I think -- in recent years got the benefit of PC simply manning up and taking a loss. However they don't have infinite capital, and taking a loss sellings wines on prearrival is not sustainable. So eventually that will end, if one subscribes to Ben Steins law.

I'm not a PC hater. I've still got a few things on pre arrival from them. If it was something that seemed very attractive and possible to actually get, I'd even take a shot at more. But I manage that risk, and keep the hard dollar exposure within limits to what I would consider as an acceptable loss. We have deductibles on insurance too, so consider how much you'd wear under something like that, and that might be a reasonable amount to cap PC PA at.

* I define possible to get as something like a good deal on an off vintage wine. Unusual formats on something peak, like the $12000 6L 82 Lafite they are constantly advertising, or the multiple cases of 89 Haut Brion (Not that I'd ever be in the market for either of those luxuries), seem simply like efforts to get dollars in the door so they can pay off aggrieved customers from the 05 campaign, where they are making cash settlements to pre arrival purchasers, per other wine boards. I do not understand how those can ever be delivered upon. Those are being offered below 'market prices' and people who have stuff like that are acutely aware of they are worth, and are unlikely to be in the position to need sudden quick cash that a distressed seller might need. (A friend once picked up case of 91 Dominus from another associate of his who was going through a divorce and had gotten his bank account frozen/swept out or something. He got them for a $100 per because the seller needed to make his car lease payment. It only delayed the inevitable by a month though, and the BMW went back to the dealer....)
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Blanquito
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

Below is the percentage of my $$$ expenditures at PC (based on the year the order was made) that have been fulfilled to date.
2015 - 7%
2014 - 58%
2013 - 89%
2012 - 97%
2011 - 89%
2010 - 98%
2009 - 100%
2008 - 100%
2007 - 100%
2006 - 100%
2005 - 100%
2004 - 100%
2003 - 100%
All Time - 91%

For example, if I spent $100 total at PC in 2014, they've delivered wine to date worth $58 and I am still waiting on $42 worth of wine from that year.

Doesn't seem too bad (though it was a lot worse about 8 months ago, as I've taken delivery on a number of things since 10/14).

*I don't suggest doing this exercise at home, as the total amount of money spent at PC through the years can be a real shock to the system.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

I think I've ordered exactly one bottle from PC in the past 6-7 years.
I used to order about $10k of wine from them per year.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by stefan »

>>
I don't suggest doing this exercise at home, as the total amount of money spent at PC through the years can be a real shock to the system.
>>

Amen, brother!

Of my 300+ bottles at PC, only 6 are read for delivery now. On the one hand, I like the free storage and don't plan on drinking the wines I have purchased any time soon; on the other hand, I am not happy with the exposure to loss I have; on the third hand, if I had fewer undelivered purchases from PC I would probably be buying more wine from then than I do.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

There's an old adage:
"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
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Blanquito
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

JimHow wrote:There's an old adage:
"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
I'm 91% on that. Or maybe I mean I'm 9% on that.

I guess if I never get my remaining 9% of purchases from PC, I've still done pretty well given the many terrific deals.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

...unless you are an honest wine enthusiast like MichaelP who has given them tens of thousands of dollars of your hard earned cash and all you want is some honest answers about your 2009s...
No thanks.
If I lied as much to my clients I would be disbarred in a heartbeat.
Where are MichaelP's fucking wines?!
It's a simple question.
I don't care if I get good deals 91% of the time.
This place is a scam.
How they get away with it is beyond me.
Simple question: Where the fuck are MichaelP's wines?
He's given them thousands of dollars.
Is it too much to ask that he at least gets an honest answer?
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by RDD »

Hey Michael, sorry to hear of this.
En primeur purchases always made me nervous and I only placed orders with very trusted friends/merchants : Zachys/Rochambeau/MacArthurs and Sams before they sold out to crooks.
Even then I sometimes ended up with grey market purchases as evidenced by the French tax stamp on the capsule.
Seems like it would be so easy to end up with in a Ponzi scheme with so much money and no promised delivery date.
Getting a few extra dollars off was just not worth it to me to deal with PC.
I still have a bad taste in my mouth from a few deals with the Wine Company in San Francisco.
It almost became comical after a while.........
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Michael-P
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Michael-P »

Indeed, these are all large formats. They delivered the 750s. And I ordered them because I want them.

David-G has a good point about waiting another 2-3 years, although all this ponzi scheme talk and mention of Rare makes me nervous. I'm just not so sure how long to wait.

Blanquito makes me wonder how I'd end up if I took more 750s and sold them to pay for the large formats. But I'm not sure at 33% if that's enough to cover the higher price of the large formats and auction house premiums to make me whole. But a interesting idea......

Feel free to pm me with any lawyers you think might be good for this. Thanks!

Michael-P
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Blanquito
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

Michael, I hope you get your wine soon. I doubt PC will go under, but it is a risk just based on the (reasoned) speculation in this thread and countless others. Any business can go under via bad luck or mismanagement, so even if PC is 100% legit, the risk of parking tens of thousands of dollars in PC prearrivals for 4+ years is not something any financial advisor would suggest!

Given that and the frustration of waiting, I personally would take the same wine in 750s unless you really only want the wines in large formats. Even then, you could sell the 750s as you suggest (I don't know what kind of deal they would offer you for magnums-to-750s though, mine deals were always for 375s to 750s).

If you are ready to talk turkey, I've recently had very good and reliable assistance from Sunita at PC. I suggest calling her:
Sunita Aggarwal
(510) 644-9463 ext. 11
sunita@premiercru.net
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

No one calling PC's business practices illegal has any evidence other than the length of time it takes to get the wine and speculation. Almost everything gets delivered eventually. My impression from following the PC threads on different boards is that you may be at higher risk with mags. But if you call them I suspect you'll either get your money back or some substitute bottles.

If Jim isn't willing to do it pro bono, don't waste your money on a lawyer. You have no damages, so no one is going to take the case. "I would have to pay double for the wines if I bought them now" is not a winning argument if they offer to give your money back. They haven't even breached their terms, which say Bordeaux futures take two years or longer, with no definition of how long longer can be.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

I don't think what they are doing is illegal, because I have to believe the state would have intervened by now.
It just seems like a plan that I would want no part of.
I still can't believe they get away with not telling the truth to customers.
I don't read other sites, can someone summarize what some of the other boards are saying?
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

PC threads just end up devolving into haters and fanboy arguments, on other boards. But there are folks who've done huge amounts of biz with PC over the decades who feel "something has changed" and they hear enough from their own sources (other ITB people etc) that they are dialing back their exposure. In some cases there may not be much they can do. Some guy who (eventually) got his 30 cases of 08 Latour from them said the delays ended up costing him a huge amount of his end client list.

I think its telling that MichaelP's problems are with unusual formats -- which is of course why one wants futures but makes the delivery much harder. I've gotten "screwed" repeatedly with a variety of vendors in not getting the formats I wanted over the years. At best, I get back my bottling surcharge. But it then begs the question: would I have even ordered if said size wasn't going to be available. It's not like the bottles are 'valueless' but some sizes have consumption value to me.

One thing to try and ascertain: did the estates even bottle in the format desired? If that didn't happen, one might as well try and figure out what a fair resolution would be. And thinking through that might require one to consider whether they would ever do biz with them again. One might ask for more if you were never coming back.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

JimHow wrote:I don't think what they are doing is illegal, because I have to believe the state would have intervened by now.
It just seems like a plan that I would want no part of.
I still can't believe they get away with not telling the truth to customers.
I don't read other sites, can someone summarize what some of the other boards are saying?
There have been so many threads, many of which were on eBob before it went all zombie on us (the site is still shambling along, but in reality, it's dead). People have been predicting the sky falling for years, and the chatter really spiked in 2008-9 when the economy tanked and financial armageddon looked possible. I was alarmed by this talk as I had lots of 2005 Bordeaux pre-arrivals at PC still.

Here's the most recent thread (warning: it's long):
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... remier+cru

I defended PC a lot in this thread and elsewhere, because they've always done right by me with 12+years of history and it seems like some folks are hoping it will go down. Lots of loose talk on wine boards could be a self-fulfilling prophecy if everyone stops buying from PC at once just because it's fun to call it a Ponzi scheme and post pictures of Madoff. But caveat emptor.

Other than in 2009, I've never been really worried about PC, but I have been limiting my business there mostly because I don't like the hassle any more. If one's exposure is low enough, long waits are not really a hassle/worry, just check in a twice a year and ship what's arrived. But it is clear that they either don't have contracts for wines they are selling as pre-arrivals (rather, they take our money and then try to make a profit with a float or currency hedge, as Arv lays out) or their suppliers in Europe really suck and keep stiffing them (that's the story I often get about why the half-bottles fall through).

But this is not a Ponzi/Pyramid scheme in its essence, which basically require ever greater in flows to cover the promises/paper profits to the people at the top. PC delivers a wine and the books become balanced, whereas a Ponzi scheme can never balance out. Sure, PC may take a loss on some wines (if enough of this happened, it could bring it down), but not because of ever greater promises.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by JimHow »

Interesting thread. PC certainly evokes impassioned discussion!
Put me in the camp of just not wanting to deal with the hassle.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Blanquito »

AKR wrote:But there are folks who've done huge amounts of biz with PC over the decades who feel "something has changed" and they hear enough from their own sources (other ITB people etc) that they are dialing back their exposure.
I've heard similar things in the last year from people "who should know".

And I admit, until the recent resolution with my half-bottles which brought me "back to normal" with what they owe me, my dealings with PC have been increasingly worrisome over the last year and a half, what with long-time PC staff leaving, wines taking much longer to come than in the past (even by PC standards), weekend special emails coming fast and furious (and seeming ever more desperate), reasonable swaps harder to pry out from them, etc.

That said, almost all of my 2010 Bordeaux pre-arrivals were delivered last year with the remaining few arriving this March (none were unusual formats), some of these were purchased way back in 2011 for silly low prices.

And if my boatload of various Pol Roger champagnes ever arrive, I wager I'll be back to full "fanboy" status. My PC habit is like the American electorate in presidential contests: short memory with the last 6 months driving my voting (buying) behavior.
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

To me, the fact that NV bubbly is problematic is the oddest thing. There is oceans made of the stuff, and there's no issue with vintages. They can sub in any NV they can find, whatever disgorgements are still floating around the trade supply chain. So when something 'fungible' to use a security expression is getting dicey to get, even after reasonable time, that is odd. I do not think people can be convinced of stuff in any case.

And I should be honest, and clear, that I still have some stuff I'm waiting on, which I'm not agitated over. I understand what could happen, and expect it to take years to pan out, for even a positive outcome
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DavidG
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by DavidG »

My experience and outlook are almost identical to Patrick's. My biggest worry was for 2005s that spiked in price after I ordered them, concurrent with the financial crisis.

I've never been shorted, but I've become less tolerant of the wait. Plus all the cries of "scam" are probably weighing on me as well, even though I don't believe it's really a scam. I do think they are being slick at best and probably dishonest about "owning" the wines at the time they are offered.
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stefan
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by stefan »

I wonder if PC still monitors this board? It would be good to have someone there explain what they do.
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AKR
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

stefan wrote:I wonder if PC still monitors this board? It would be good to have someone there explain what they do.
What firm is going to want to get into a mudslinging match on the internet? And if they did have real problems, talking about them on them internet, and denying them, just makes things worse as/if/when people get all lawyered up.

Their best business strategy is to start delivering wines, and clearing that backlog. Maybe they are the point where they have negative working capital, and only by consciously running a huge already paid for book, can they stay in business. Insolvency isn't what kills a business, its liquidity. And as long as banks, employees, trade vendors, prearrival customers, all collectively keep believing maybe they can 'trade' their way out of the hole. A euro crash, a few parts of the negociant supply chain throwing in the towel (and selling non trophy vintages for cheap), and a couple of breaks ... maybe things normalize for them.

Citibank was wildly insolvent in the early 90s, but the regulators let them keep on running, and they used the suspended dividends to rebuild their capital and get back in business. (Of course they did again 15 some odd years later, but you get my point).

I've got a dog in the fight too, so I'll have to just root for some delays, and an eventual delivery of something. Otherwise I'd be munching popcorn and hoping for Rudy K kind of festivities.
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Jeff Leve
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Count me in a a 100% satisified customer of Premier Cru. I have received 99.9% of every bottle ordered for the past 15 years. That is a lot of wine. Yes, the wines were delivered late. But that comes with the territory as there is no secret about their lack of timely delivery. I understgand why people would not want to bother and I get it why people buy from them.

I'm still a buyer...
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AKR
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Re: Wine lawyer to chase en primeur orders?

Post by AKR »

Jeff Leve wrote:Count me in a a 100% satisified customer of Premier Cru. I have received 99.9% of every bottle ordered for the past 15 years. That is a lot of wine. Yes, the wines were delivered late. But that comes with the territory as there is no secret about their lack of timely delivery. I understgand why people would not want to bother and I get it why people buy from them.

I'm still a buyer...
I'm guessing you spend more than I do, and are regarded as an influential client, in the sense that if you they piss you off, it will cost them far more if you have a negative blog/board post.

So perhaps not all of their customers get treated precisely equally. That's a business's prerogative of course.

Perhaps your experiences are different from the hoi polloi.

quasi related: http://www.wsj.com/articles/restaurants ... 1431446356
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