Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

No, not officially. But by Liv-Ex, and based on price. I guess they've been doing this every couple of years.

I guess reenacted would be a better way of putting it. What impresses me is that for the minor shuffling, it's pretty static. More illuminating would be the ranking based on past five years of Parker scores - from the last year he did ratings of course.

For years people have spoken about Lynch Bages moving from 5th to 2nd growth status based on quality but Live -Ex has moved them to a second growth based on current pricing which I find a travesty based on recent quality! Interesting concept but as equally misleading in some cases as the original classification. Certainly some need to move up and others should move down but not sure pricing holds all of the answers to base the model on.

I agree that pricing is not always the most accurate indicator of quality. Usually the market responds to supply and demand, with demand usually driven by quality. But there can be exceptions due to distorting factors. Scarcity is one. And a wine like Leoville Barton which has tended to lower en primeur pricing than comparable estates may be starting off at a disadvantage that isn't fully erased by the market when the data for this survey is done.

Hound suggests (I think) that Parker scores could be another factor. Which raises the question of whether a high RP score is a reliable indicator of quality and the follow-on question as to how to define inherent quality vs. an individual' style preference. It would be interesting to see the average RP scores for the same vintages of each wine along side the rankings.

The original 1855 classification was based primarily on pricing.

Which is why Liv-Ex is basing it on pricing now.

Question is whether pricing is now or was then a good, fair or poor indicator of quality.

I would say they correlate well but not perfectly, with a decreasing rate of return as you get into the uber-expensive wines. Not sure exactly where that curve starts to plateau but I know that it's at a higher point than it was when I was new to Bordeaux.

I misread a previous post.

Nicely dine by Livex, based on market prices.

Given what we know I wish we could trade these rankings - my biggest 'short' would be Lynch Bages and my biggest 'long' would be Leoville Barton.

Maybe we should make a portfolio of long and shorts?

Comte Flaneur wrote:Nicely dine by Livex, based on market prices.

Given what we know I wish we could trade these rankings - my biggest 'short' would be Lynch Bages and my biggest 'long' would be Leoville Barton.

Maybe we should make a portfolio of long and shorts?

Your Lynch and Leo B. trades would seem like slam dunks. The problem is the market can stay irrational longer than I can stay sober.

It's remarkable how resilient that 1855 classification has been. I mean 160 years of history, a zillion things have changed and evolved, but not the top classified growths of Bordeaux. Now that is a testament to the greatness of the region. What a tragic irony, that the one disagreement that sticks out for me on the list, is that Lynch Bages should be demoted to cru bourgeois status rather than elevated to the laughable level of second growth.

The longevity of the ranking's relevance may be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Those commanding the highest prices have the greatest resources to invest in staff and technology and are most able to afford a brutal selection process in difficult years. This then helps move them further ahead of the péloton quality-wise, which further supports higher pricing.

Assuming they have the smarts to invest and invest wisely.

True that.
But I do subscribe to that view that there's a theoretical "best"square foot spot in the solar system where conditions are most propitious where the best oranges, the best bananas, the best coffee beans, the best cigar tobacco leaves, the best lobsters, the best crabs, the best corn, etc., etc., are produced.
And, when it comes to wine grapes, for me it's that bend in the road on D1 where LLC meets Latour, and the ten miles or so surrounding it.

No doubt there's something special about the location.

Ah, it was late afternoon on that Monday in Bordeaux, and we were all quite tired, and some of us had been to LLC, and some had been to Gruaud, and we had all been to Latour, and we were now a little late at Leoville Barton, which looks right across the street at that "bend in the road," that stone wall on the other side that separates LLC from Latour. And I took a minute to just take in the late afternoon sun, and I said to myself, I am in heaven. It was a bit poignant, because I thought I might never again be at this spot. Oh baby.