1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

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Comte Flaneur
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1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Last night 15 of us ventured to La Trompette, a consistently dazzling gourmet restaurant in West London specialising in wine events, to taste some 1985 clarets blind. On our table of seven we had Ducru Beaucaillou, Palmer, Leoville Lascases, Chateau Margaux, L'Eglise Clinet, Pichon Lalande and Gruaud-Larose. 

Whereas the other table chose to reveal the wines at the end of each flight I successfully lobbied to have the wines only revealed at the end of the last flight of reds (btw we had a couple of champagnes to start a JJ Prum and A 1985 Raymond Lafon for dessert, but we were very focused on the clarets, and in trying to figure out what they were.)

Wine 1

Simply glorious in every way. It has a resplendent maroon colour and a magical nose of cedar, tertiary earthy mushroom-truffly notes with a judicious lick of funky barnyard. It has a glorious mouth feel, with some grip, density and richness on the mid-palate but at the same time it is light on its feet. There is nothing forced and it is beautifully resolved. It has perfect pitch. I immediately recognised it as Gruaud-Larose, with high conviction, the wine I contributed. 96 . It was indeed Gruaud-Larose.

Wine 2 

Another thrillingly good and resolved wine, this had a slightly darker maroon colour, a thicker texture and slightly more body and density. It wasn't quite as deft over the palate and it had a note of woodiness that one sometimes experiences in 80s Ducrus. But there was a merlot note too which suggested that it could have been Pichon Lalande because it was otherwise more like a left bank. One or two pegged it as a right bank. 93. It was Ducru Beaucaillou.

Wine 3 

This wine was more translucent, medium bodied, had some rough edges (at least in comparison with the first flight) and residual raspy tannins, but it really was fun, with a certain earthiness, chewiness, capsicum overtones and slightly more pronounced red and black fruit I would associate with Pauillac. So I put this down as Pichon Lalande, and number 2 as Ducru. Whereas others liked this more I liked this less than the first two. 91. This was Pichon Lalande.

Wine 4 

This had a surprisingly pronounced new oaky note as if it still was not integrated, which made me lean towards L'Eglise Clinet. That view was reinforced by the sumptuous palate of spices and plums in a medium-full bodied format. Still youthful, and most enjoyable. 92. This was L'Eglise Clinet.

Wine 5 

A darker more brooding colour, with notes of iron, lead, mineral and tobacco. Bracing, riveting and really poised and refined on the palate. Still quite brooding and stern with a bit of edginess and tension, like a Stradivarius. This was either the Leoville-Lascases or the Margaux, and once the remaining wines were poured it became clear it was the former. It is similar to the 1988 LLC except it has more power and density on the mid palate, but it is more accessible than the 1982 and 1986 'scases. Like wine 1 it is a nigh on perfect glass of claret. 96. This was Leoville-Lascases.

Wine 6

I picked up Margaux berries so it had to be Margaux or Palmer. Then this really starting to sing with a to die for nose of berries and cigar box. The main reason why I pegged it as Palmer was because it was very similar to the brilliant bottle we enjoyed in Paris with Tim in March. It was similarly lush on the palate with none of the green vegetal notes that you sometimes get on lesser bottles (it is a wine that suffers from a lot of bottle variation). A fabulous bottle this, the front end dominated but the mid-palate and finish were refined, svelte, and a wine you can't resist. 95. This was Palmer.

Wine 7

Initially broody, dark and not showing much. With coaxing you get some violets on the nose leading into a dense powerful inner core. A riddle, wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma, it gradually began to unfurl after a couple of hours but by then it was time to go home. I was confident that this was Margaux because I had a similar experience 2-3 years ago, and none of the others would have been this backward. I think this wine needs to be held for another five years, but unlike last time I am convinced it will develop into another superb Chateau Margaux. Drinking window: 2020-2060? 95+. This was Chateau Margaux.

The other table had on paper possibly an even better line up with Haut-Brion, Latour and La Conseillante among them, but the star on the other table was...wait for it...Lynch-Bages. I tried some and it was indeed very lovely. My first question was did it have a green note? The answer was in the affirmative but this time the green note was beautifully integral to the equilibrium of the wine, like a well groomed and trim middle aged person with distinguished grey. It was the best example of this wine I have tried for 20 years, and a reminder that Lynch really was a worthy super second in the 1980s. Latour came up trumps too but that didn't surprise me.

The bottom line is that 1985 is a brilliant vintage for current drinking, arguably one of the very best. The only wine that I thought might start to fade on a five year horizon was Pichon-Lalande. The Gruaud is a much better wine in my opinion, but that view was not shared around the table. 

A strong performance by Palmer on the day, but I would much rather own Leoville Lascases. The two wines which were not on show yesterday were Lafite and Mouton, my candidates for wine of the vintage based on my most recent experiences. 

But If you crave after some 1985 my advice would be to seek out some well stored Gruaud-Larose with good provenance. It really is an under-rated wine and slap bang in the middle of the estate's 1982-88 purple patch. 
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JimHow
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by JimHow »

Wow! Wow! Wow! What the heck happened to Lynch Bages, 1982 to 1990 was like Camelot.
Schneider's on Capitol Hill has the '85 Leoville Barton for $130, I'm tempted.
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by DavidG »

Wow is right, what a lineup! And Ian, you are becoming a blind tasting master.
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AKR
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by AKR »

Blind tasting really focuses the mind. Also makes it clearer what is really good to an individual.
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by JimHow »

You should have seen Comte in Bordeaux: One sip and he called it, 1988 Pichon Baron.
He identified MichaelP's 1932 Petrus as clearly a Pomerol.
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by DavidG »

AKR wrote:Blind tasting really focuses the mind. Also makes it clearer what is really good to an individual.
Blind tasting has it's uses, especially for rating wines and sharpening one's evaluation skills. But that same focus brought into play during blind tasting can, under some circumstances, detract from the pure hedonistic enjoyment of the wine, it's back story, etc. For enjoyment/drinking as opposed to tasting, I like to know what I'm drinking.
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by stefan »

Great retrospective tasting, Ian, and congratulations on nailing the wines.
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Blanquito
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Blanquito »

DavidG wrote:
AKR wrote:Blind tasting really focuses the mind. Also makes it clearer what is really good to an individual.
Blind tasting has it's uses, especially for rating wines and sharpening one's evaluation skills. But that same focus brought into play during blind tasting can, under some circumstances, detract from the pure hedonistic enjoyment of the wine, it's back story, etc. For enjoyment/drinking as opposed to tasting, I like to know what I'm drinking.
Yes. We do lots of blind tastings, and inevitability we spend a lot of time trying to gauge the identity of the wine, which can be fun, but is different than just enjoying a bottle.
Last edited by Blanquito on Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blanquito
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Blanquito »

Great tasting, Ian. I haven't had many 1985s -- from memory, just Canon, Leoville Poyferre, Gruaud Larose, Tablot, Haut Bages Liberal, Belair, and a fantastic bottle of La Mission Haut Brion provided generously by Chris Bublitz -- but I really love their style and pure drinkability right now. Perfectly mature and very pretty, as your notes so nicely convey.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I initially wasn't happy about it being blind but it was actually huge fun. On our table were all Bordeaux wine enthusiasts - UK-style - I should persuade these guys to jump on board - with Rainer who flew over especially from Dusseldorf. But while we kept our judgements to ourselves we compared notes and steered and challenged each other. It really was great fun. One of the other participants on our table nailed all the wines too. But I think of it as more of a piece of random good luck...after all I am a pretty average taster and usually the last person to detect TCA.
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by dstgolf »

Great night Ian. Sounds like a lot of fun and how can you disagree with the wines enjoyed. No disagreement with the 85 Gruaud Larose...outstanding along with the 82,83,86,88, 89 and 90. Something happened somewhere between 90 and 2005 with Gruaud. They were a bit all over the place. Will be interested what the new winemaker will bring with her intention to eliminate Brett on all fronts and concentrate one vineyard purity??!!.
Danny
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Nicklasss »

Great tasting and report Comte.

I wish 2012 could be like 1985. 1985 is an interesting exçellent vintage. I personnally liked a lot in the past, Léoville Las Cases (yes that 70$ bottle we had in a small restaurant in DC), Mission Haut-Brion (the bottle I brought to the 03 NYC convention), Margaux ( at AlexR's place and in the blind tasting in one of the DC convention), Lynch Bages, Mouton Rothschild, Gruaud Larose, Grand-Puy Lacoste (yes that bottle in 02 Napa convention, that lost again 86 Léoville Barton because JimHow trick a little bit the things), and Canon.

30 years, a perfect âge for good Bordeaux vintages.

Nic
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by greatbxfreak »

Excellent notes Ian!

This is what I remember from 1985 vintage - 2 weeks spent in September (14-28th)

1. Second visit to Bordeaux
2. First Bordeaux harvest of my life.
3. Beautiful sunny September with temperatures of app. 27 degrees C.
4. Enourmous yield (50 hl/ha even at big guns), big Merlot grapes. At that time Bordeaux used ice blocks packed in plastic to cool the must. Very few had vats with temperature control.
5. Meeting accidently Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin while taking wrong turn off the road on my way to Cheval Blanc.

Even if many call 1985 woman vintage, it's great to see wines with concentration and grit. Btw, as far as I remember 1985 L'Eglise Clinet is the first vintage of Denis Durantou after he took over from Pierre Lasserre.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Danny - I think Gruaud started going off the boil in 1989. The 1989 and 1990 are solid but not special like the 1983, 1985, 1988 not to mention the 1982 and 1986.

Izak re Nic's question/observation, which modern day vintage most closely resembles1985 in terms of growing conditions?
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greatbxfreak
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by greatbxfreak »

Ian,

Difficult to compare 1985 to another vintage because of change of vinification and materiel after this vintage. 2005 maybe in some context.

However 2012 is nowhere 1985, but better than 2013.

http://www.bbr.com/vintage-21985-red-bordeaux-1985 - they nailed description of the vintage! I completely agree.

Unfortunately I only possess Gombaude Guillot new oak version, Certan de May, Domaine de Chevalier, Lynch Bages and Tertre Roteboeuf in 1985.
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stefan
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by stefan »

Lucie and I have always loved '85 Bordeaux. It was friendly young and has held up well. We drank more than two cases of La Lagune (of course). Now we are down to 4 bottles (sob).

>>
2012 is ... better than 2013.
>>

Izak, IMO you have to go back to 1991 to find a vintage that can compete with 2013.
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AKR
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by AKR »

The great plus to me of periodically doing blind tastings is that it calibrates the consumer to what they like, without someone else telling you what you should like.

You find it on your own.

Many of my favorite estates, that I still acquire today, are the results of blind panel tastings from long ago.

A few nights ago, I put a different wine in an empty half bottle to save it in the fridge, and consumed a glass last night.

Even though the wine was totally different than what was on the label, my mind was conditioned to think of it as the other one.

I had put a Rhone wine in a Bordeaux bottle, and I was picking up Bdx flavors, by the pure power of suggestion, context.

Maybe there was some there, but also the mind sees what it expects to see.

This is one reason why the most believable lies, are the ones we want to believe.
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AKR
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Re: 1985 Bordeaux 30 years on

Post by AKR »

Comte Flaneur may also simply have both more genetic capacity for identifying flavors, as well as the (expensive!) training to have built up a mental palette so that he can quickly place wines to their place in the firmament.

I can barely even identify if something is corked!
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