President Trump

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Comte Flaneur
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

So Michael Moore has done a 180 degree pirouette

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/a ... -president

Should have ignored him in the first place (remember: five reasons why Trump will win). I always thought he was a joke, should not have given credence to his first article.

Like the blonde wig, an insatiable - beyond narcissistic - appetite for media attention.
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

Moore's first piece about the potential for Trump to win did resonate with me and I suspect many others truly afraid of a Trump presidency. I have no idea if there is any truth to this latest allegation but it reeks of conspiratorial thinking and is no better substantiated than much of what Trump himself spouts. It certainly does fit with your assessment of a cry for ongoing attention.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Moore's article is a bunch of bullshit.
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Chateau Vin
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Re: President Trump

Post by Chateau Vin »

JimHow wrote:Moore's article is a bunch of bullshit.
To say the least...
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Antoine
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Re: President Trump

Post by Antoine »

Real issue is "are they a significant number of Trump's supporters who do not indicate their choice in polls?" In France pollsters used to correct Le Pen vote intentions by a very significant amount because people did not dare/want to admit they would vote for him/her (father/daughter).
However the level of panic in his camp may not help him. Patience will tell us. Remember Brexit... Polls ...
.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Clinton is only up by 2-4 points in national polls and we're still two weeks away from Labor Day. This race is not over yet.
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AlohaArtakaHoundsong
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Re: President Trump

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

JimHow wrote:Clinton is only up by 2-4 points in national polls and we're still two weeks away from Labor Day. This race is not over yet.
Two solid months of radical Islamic extremists circulating through a turnstile at a border crossing a la Willie Horton?
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I think you'll see those pictures of Hillary with her hair pulled back, slightly bloated, coughing….
They're on Hannity like every night now….
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Trump is now ahead in some polls nationally. He's dead even in Iowa. All this despite the fact that he has had a couple of miserable weeks and has been outspent about $100 million to $ zero in TV ads. Be afraid, people. Be very afraid.
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jal
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Re: President Trump

Post by jal »

I know we are all quoting the polls that confirm our point of view. Here's another one.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-e ... SKCN10Y28J
Best

Jacques
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

I'm not sure any of the polls are really accurate. Tough year to figure. First, I suspect there is a small hidden bump not being counted for Trump for the people who will not publicly admit they are voting for him. Could it be 5%? More? Less? Who knows. Next, every pollster has a proprietary system that attempts to replicate what the likely voting population will look like. There are many (like me, probably) who usually vote but won't, and there are certainly people who usually don't that will, mostly because of revulsion of the alternative. The point is the usual models won't work this time.
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

On another note, when I think I can't be more disgusted, I am proven wrong. As obnoxious as Trump is, at some point I start to wonder if the worst thing I can say about him is that he might end up doing things she's already done.

http://nypost.com/2016/08/23/majority-o ... o-hillary/

http://www.nationalreview.com/happening ... ated-press
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Jay Winton
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Re: President Trump

Post by Jay Winton »

and will Jill Stein be the Ralph Nader of 2016?
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

Not getting the sense of much of a buzz around Jill. Doubt she'll make much of an impact, and any draw could be offset by Johnson, although he may attract some from both sides. If Bernie hadn't stood down I think there would've been a real problem for Hillary. Bernie would've been found in a dumpster somewhere.....

Still Hillary's to lose, I think, but she's giving it her very best effort.
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

I'm glad she met with many donors, though I suspect the numbers were selected for maximum impact. Kind of like "only 6% of donations goes to charitable work" when the real number was 88%. Only this time there's no way to know the real denominator. Regardless, the Clinton Family Foundation has done a ton of good so good on them. That doesn't really matter to the Pillory Hillary crowd who assume it was cash for policy, or more likely who understand how the game is played by both Ds and Rs but took an opportunity to grab some anti-Clinton headlines. I guess the same pay for access could be said of any politician. Except this money wasn't going into her pocket (oh, except Chelsea, there's a major scandal for you), it was going to help the disadvantaged.

Donations = access is disgusting? Well I suppose, but that's politics in the US. I've played the same game to get the ear of State and Congressional representatives on issues important to physicians. Guess I'm as corrupt as the rest of them. Maybe not as corrupt as I don't have millions to contribute. And none of politicians has a monopoly on it, whether D or R.

As to veracity, looking at what's been said on the campaign trail, where the press has actually done head to head comparisons, HRC has come out as one of the more truthful pols. Picking at her statements over the past 25 years is easy to do but I haven't seen anyone put the same effort into examining her equals in a head-to-head comparison. At this point the Crooked Hillary claims come across to me as protestations of the (sometimes purposefully so) ill- or misinformed.

But we all see what we want to see, hear what we want to hear. I'm just as guilty as the Trump supporters and the Hillary haters. I just hope the press doesn't play this "make it an even race to keep the viewers eyeballs" game to the point where we are at risk of Trump actually winning. I'm happy to concede personal enmity towards HRC, but can't brook actual support of Trump.
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

I understand you are a supporter, David, but just to be clear, the AP and the NYT are now part of the "Pillory Hillary" crowd, too?
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

but can't brook actual support of Trump.
I don't get the print edition but I subscribe to the NYT digital edition.
Literally almost every day, in the left hand column, is an article trashing Trump.

Of course, literally every night, from 10-11pm, Sean Hannity is trashing Hillary.

The problem is, I expect that from Hannity.
We once expected more from the NYT.
But no more. The NYT is no longer any better than Sean Hannity.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote: The NYT is no longer any better than Sean Hannity.
It couldn't possibly be that Trump is that bad.
;)
I'd be willing to bet that NYT uses facts to back up their position while the Alt Right has no need for facts.

If I saw Hannity on the street I'd be strongly tempted to spit in his face.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

yeah, he's pretty disgusting.
I like to watch Fox on election night when I know the Dems are gonna win, just to see his suffering.
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

Hannity is awful.

Agree with Jim, the NYT is an enormous disappointment. Yes I bet they do have facts that shows Trump is an ass because he factually is. My problem is that Hillary is also factually an ass but any criticism is apparently off limits or excused away. Poor Hillary. Every time she breaks the law, lies, dissembles or screws up people try to call her on it. How unfair! She could club baby seals while throwing a grandmother off a cliff and the Shillory crowd will excuse it.
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

JScott wrote:I understand you are a supporter, David, but just to be clear, the AP and the NYT are now part of the "Pillory Hillary" crowd, too?
Scott, I was responding to the NY Post and National Review articles that you linked. Was there a particular AP or NYT story you had in mind? I don't consider either of them anti-HRC, especially not the Times. But I do think all media likes to stir the pot and will not hesitate to "get out there" as fast as possible with the latest scandalous headline. And only some of them bother to follow up in more depth when more details become available.

I do like to type "Pillory Hillary" though... ;)
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

David, that story was broken by AP. They spent three years trying to get the data and State stonewalled it. It has been reported everywhere, including the Times.
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JScott
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

And Pillory Hillary does have a panache. ;)
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

I've only seen a few minutes from it so far, but Hillary Clinton's speech yesterday was powerful.
She went straight at Donald Trump's association with the Alt Right, and his racist misogynist behavior on the campaign trail.
She didn't mince her words at all, in her appeal to moderate republicans.

I don't see how Trump can get around his white supremacist ties in this election cycle.
He made an attempt to deflect the impact of Hillary's speech in his remarks yesterday in Manchester, NH, but it was little more than a continuation of the "I'm rubber You're glue" strategy.
The man is a pathological liar.

Last night Rachel Maddow made the case for how the Alt Right is achieving its goal of becoming mainstream, through Trump's candidacy.
Kelly Anne and Steve Bannon were both working for the same (white supremacist)) billionaire, who is now the major bankroller of the Trump campaign.
Now they've been installed to run his campaign.

Mrs. Clinton is going to be on Morning Joe at 8:30 this morning. I'll have to record it for watching tonight.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I predict a dead heat by Labor Day:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

But what do you predict for November 8?

I'm fond of the Real Clear Politics poll summary.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I think this is going to be getting extremely ugly.
I don't know if you guys have been following Hannity at all but this is some of the lowest shit I've ever seen.
This Trump/Christie/Giulliani crowd is very dangerous.
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

Chris, Clinton's speech was powerful.

Jim, I don't pay attention to Hannity. I have no doubt things will get ugly.

It will be a sad day indeed if Clinton doesn't massacre Trump on Election Day. It's upsetting to me that tens of millions of people are so hateful or stupid or both that they would buy the manufactured crap about Clinton and/or actually think that Trump has any redeeming qualities worthy of the Presidency.

I cannot imagine how bad it would be if Trump won. The enablement he has already provided to racists and Neo-Nazis and the Alt-Right sociopaths has set us back a decade. That damage is already done, and can only begin to be undone if he is utterly rejected at the polls.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

David, that Real Clear Politics poll summary includes results going back to August 1st.
This is August 27th.
August 1st is ancient history.
Just like August 27th will be ancient history come October 1st, and Nov. 1st. etc.
Brace yourselves, my Maryland liberal DC, beltway friends.
The universe is not as you perceive it.
This election could go either way… Pay ZERO attention to what the mainstream media tells you.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

The Clinton speech and her campaign's new advertising are aimed at moderate republicans uncomfortable with their candidate.
She's painting a very accurate picture of her opponent as a man totally unfit to assume the mantle of the presidency.

Trump's extremism has left the middle ground wide open. His ridiculous counterattacks aren't having much effect.
The attempt to connect the Clinton Foundation to Pay for Play politics will fail miserably.

The latest group to come out against Trump is: Every Living Economist who was an advisor to any president, current and past.
The only argument his campaign has left to curry support is "control" of the Supreme Court.

Traditional battleground states are polling with Hillary as much as 15 points ahead and some red states like South Carolina are in play for the Dems for the first time in half a century.
Republican loss of control of the Senate is becoming more and more likely.

Hillary has already begun preparing to transition to the presidency, and rightly so.
If there is a debate, I expect she will shred any remaining illusions people have about Trump's lack of qualifications.
I wouldn't be surprised if his head explodes.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

I don't think Hillary will have to try that hard though. :D
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

JimHow wrote:David, that Real Clear Politics poll summary includes results going back to August 1st.
This is August 27th.
August 1st is ancient history.
Just like August 27th will be ancient history come October 1st, and Nov. 1st. etc.
Brace yourselves, my Maryland liberal DC, beltway friends.
The universe is not as you perceive it.
This election could go either way… Pay ZERO attention to what the mainstream media tells you.
Don't look at just the top line of the table or the graph at the bottom of the page. The table shows a variety of polls with different survey dates. It includes the latest Quinnipiac, one of your favorites which usually leans more Trump than most. And it shows Clinton ahead by 10. The LA Times/USC poll is the only one showing a tie, and their methodology is radically different. One can argue whether it holds water. In any case, I am sure you are right about seeing swings between now and November as each sides fires its broadsides.

And then I never know how seriously to take your responses about how close you think this will be. I've seen you play the simple country lawyer reverse psychology gambit to get us all engaged before... Believe me, I'm worried about how many ignorant angry people might vote for Trump.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

Comte Flaneur wrote:You mean like this Chris?
There will be blood coming out of his eyes,
blood coming out of his ... wherever.
:shock:
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tim
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Re: President Trump

Post by tim »

Jim, dude, what is up with your Governor?
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

He's crazy.
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Chateau Vin
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Re: President Trump

Post by Chateau Vin »

tim wrote:Jim, dude, what is up with your Governor?
Everything is disgusting with this governor. No decorum, no decency, just behaving like an uncivilized thug. Thanks to Trump, the whole politics is devoid of basic human decency. And these same folks have the nerve of criticising other peoples of the same. You would expect name calling in election cycle, but Trump has given a whole new meaning to it.

In the name of being not being politically correct, Trump is bringing racism, xenophobia and even violence to the forefront. IMO, it's not being politically correct, but it's being a bigot. It has become the new normal that the others have become desensitized and doing the same without any regard to what is right and wrong. People may have biases, people may harbor racism inside, but they did not express overtly because they also know deep down that it is wrong. But Trump showed by example that he can overtly be racist and bigoted by painting such showing as not being politically correct. Now he redefined the meaning of political correctness, which is of course non sensical. Certain people fell for it and doing the same making the whole atmosphere vitriolic.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

Did anyone see Nigel Farage on stage with Trump in Mississippi?
I don't think the audience knew who he was or understood a word he was saying.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Don't get me started on Nigel Farage. All I can say that he is much less dangerous than Trump. He claimed credit for the Brexit vote with his racist posters but was never part of the official campaign because he was seen as a bit of a liability.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Btw Chris who are you voting for? I couldn't figure it out from your posts. You seemed to be sitting on the fence, hedging your bets.
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