President Trump

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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I'm just thinking this is really bizarre that it is 2am and they haven't called this.
Wisconsin and Michigan are tightening.
But, incredibly, it looks like she's gonna lose PA.
Crazy.
I'm going to bed.
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AlohaArtakaHoundsong
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Re: President Trump

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

There you go. Trump's got a "mandate" (per Lewandowski) in control of the executive and the legislative branches. So, like Obama, (correct me if I'm wrong) Reagan and LBJ in recent political history, but you can certainly go back to FDR in the same circumstances, we are going to have a big rush to make hay, despite that the electorate is divided.I don't know why these guys continue to spew platitudes about throwing bones to the vanquished or subverting your own supporters.

The dynamic of these first 100 days to two years is going to be very interesting. I can see the tax cut happening fast but I'm having trouble seeing the big deficit spend on infrastructure and inner cities, walls and the other idiosyncrasies of the Trump platform coming out of the Republican congressional majority.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

Well that sucks.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I don't even care anymore.
I'm just gonna look out for myself and my family.
This country sucks.
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AlexR
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Re: President Trump

Post by AlexR »

I attended a meeting of Democrats Abroad this morning.
One of the ladies distributed black armbands....

What a shock the news was!

There's the way people really are, and there's the *image*.

Trump's image outside the US is terrible.
It could be that he's much less of a disaster in office.
But, heck, what else can we do now but hope?

Alex R.
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Blanquito
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Re: President Trump

Post by Blanquito »

Ahem to hope.

I recall thinking the same thing about Bush in 2000, that we could hope that an incredibly close election would mean Bush would govern more moderately. Hope was dashed, to be sure.

Yet, Bush is likely to seem moderate next to trump, I fear.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

No, it's going to be bad, Alex.
The biggest problem is we are going to have an unrestrained radical right wing Congress.
It's really going to be something.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AlexR »

I wonder how many Americans will actually leave the country.

AR
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Tom In DC
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Re: President Trump

Post by Tom In DC »

Hound, my point was that I don't recall any need to respect the other side the last few times this has happened (Clinton, Bush II, and Obama have all enjoyed such windows of "frenzy"), and the world didn't end.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Blanquito »

Make no mistake, the FBI gave this election to Trump.

Hillary was a flawed candidate and made a number of big mistakes in her campaign, but she lost Florida, Pennsylvania, and (probably) Michigan by 1% or less. That margin would almost certainly have been reversed without Comey's nearly unprecedented, once in a generation interference in our democracy, and it would be President Clinton we'd talking about.

At the very least/best case scenario, the Supreme Court will be lost for another 20+ years to haters of science, government, fairness where business and wealthy individuals wield all of the power. The Ryan budget will almost certainly get passed unless the Senate Dems rediscover some spine and filibuster everything like the Republicans did when in the minority. But that can be replaced two years later by the next House.

Be careful what you wish for, Republicans, it's all on you now.
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Tom In DC
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Re: President Trump

Post by Tom In DC »

A lot of groundwork was laid when the Democratic Senate pulled the trigger on the nuclear option in November, 2013 and as the current Chief Executive has greatly expanded the power of the pen.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

Tom In DC wrote:...
and as the current Chief Executive has greatly expanded the power of the pen.
Except that Obama wrote less Executive Orders per year during his term than every president before him all the way back to Grover Cleveland's first term.
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JimHow
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Goodbye Roe v. Wade.

Well at least Maggie Hassan won.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote: Well at least Maggie Hassan won.
in a real squeaker.
At least that's one ray of light shining thru this morning.
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DavidG
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

Hound, sorry about the flip comment above. Too soon...

Still feeling shell-shocked and a little frightened.
Very disappointed in the choices so many millions have made, their gullibility, the tactics used.

Destroyed most of what little idealism I had left.

I could (and have) blamed the media for not investigating and publicizing Trump's conflicts while focusing on BS HRC emals.
And Comey for his blatant power play. He should still be canned and the NY FBI investigated.
But ultimately it's us. The people have spoken.

We'll go on.
We'll hope to god he doesn't start another war.
Social policy has been set back 50 years. Supreme Court, budgets, the safety net...
Lord only knows how enabling this will be for haters of every stripe. Can only hope it will tone down now that the election is over.

Wonder what will happen in the mid-years?

What will happen when people, many people, like the woman checker and the woman bagger at the local grocery store who said they voted Trump yesterday because "he's for unions and will make the economy better for us," find out that it ain't so?
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AKR
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Blanquito wrote:Make no mistake, the FBI gave this election to Trump.

Hillary was a flawed candidate and made a number of big mistakes in her campaign, but she lost Florida, Pennsylvania, and (probably) Michigan by 1% or less. That margin would almost certainly have been reversed without Comey's nearly unprecedented, once in a generation interference in our democracy, and it would be President Clinton we'd talking about.

At the very least/best case scenario, the Supreme Court will be lost for another 20+ years to haters of science, government, fairness where business and wealthy individuals wield all of the power. The Ryan budget will almost certainly get passed unless the Senate Dems rediscover some spine and filibuster everything like the Republicans did when in the minority. But that can be replaced two years later by the next House.

Be careful what you wish for, Republicans, it's all on you now.
I think you are trying to find a scapegoat.

It seems to me more that people wanted change. Seismic change.

And by cheating Bernie out of the Dem nomination, the elites let someone else get the change mantle.

HRC just performed disastrously in so many places, and I doubt the voters who switched, cared a whole lot about some confusing investigation.

The right track/wrong track poll is something like 60% of people polled feel the nation is on the wrong track, versus 30% who think its ok. That +30 differential is extreme, and has to be ominious for any ruling party.

I wonder how many people who've been getting Obamacare sticker shock, or seen their doctors unplug from the system, were part of the people who switched.

Or how national Dems thought they could talk all day long about more and more gun control, and not think that some guy in a pickup truck in 'flyover country' wouldn't eventually look at the NRA voting card at his shooting range.

Anyways I didn't vote for the guy, and am just as stunned as anyone else, and am just glad I didn't promise to eat my hat in Trafalgar Sq. or anything. I really thought it was going to be a total blue tidal wave, but I guess I live too much in the NYT/WSJ media bubble. And even though I'm in CA, I would not consider Sacramento a liberal coastal enclave like San Francisco, Boston etc. I'm in the suburbs and its a purple county.

I am suitably chastened. I just hope the ideologically pure of heart like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz can contain the new POTUS impulses.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

My one employee is in many ways my ideological opposite, yet we work together well.
He's a 62yo career auto mechanic. A cynical, gun loving, former part time police officer turned semi-anarchist, who, when he's angry at the gubmint, says "fuck all laws".
(Funny thing, I saw a pic of him in police garb & thought he looked like Barney Fife)

All I can say is it's a good thing I mostly kept my mouth shut other than on this thread.
We'll be able to continue working together successfully, but I'm starting to think more and more about going back to working alone.
I really don't like managing/supervising people.

I really feel that a big change would do me good, and I have about 10 years (or more) to go before retiring.
The current auto business occupies all my time, but I'm not feeling much satisfaction anymore.

Would like to build a new business around my stainless steel wine rack ideas but haven't seen a path forward yet.
Anybody want to invest in a startup manufacturing biz?
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Chateau Vin
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Re: President Trump

Post by Chateau Vin »

AKR wrote:
I think you are trying to find a scapegoat.
I disagree with you Arv. The three states of MI, WI, PA are 1% or less differential, and Trump won PA and WI. I think FBI, through it's unprecedented move, performed electioneering. Whether you like either candidate or dislike either of them, that thing should not have happened.

AKR wrote:It seems to me more that people wanted change. Seismic change.

And by cheating Bernie out of the Dem nomination, the elites let someone else get the change mantle.
I agree, and that was one of the flaws of her and the DNC. I feel that, like an Octopus spreading its tentacles, the Clinton politics machine has its tentacles spread all over place, repugnant to any individual, let alone to any republican. Time for DNC to clean up that kind of mess.
AKR wrote:HRC just performed disastrously in so many places, and I doubt the voters who switched, cared a whole lot about some confusing investigation.
I have to disagree Arv. People know both are bad choices. Up until this election cycle, voter's opposition for Hillary was mainly due to her left leaning policies more than anything else. The whole email investigation issue got her tagged with alleged 'corruption', 'above the law', 'not forthcoming' monikers. If even one person's vote out of 100 cast in the rust belt states gets flipped to her, she would have won.
AKR wrote:The right track/wrong track poll is something like 60% of people polled feel the nation is on the wrong track, versus 30% who think its ok. That +30 differential is extreme, and has to be ominious for any ruling party.

AKR wrote:I wonder how many people who've been getting Obamacare sticker shock, or seen their doctors unplug from the system, were part of the people who switched.
That's a very good point and could have also contributed to such close election in the Rust belt states of PA, WI that Trump won so narrowly.
AKR wrote:Or how national Dems thought they could talk all day long about more and more gun control, and not think that some guy in a pickup truck in 'flyover country' wouldn't eventually look at the NRA voting card at his shooting range.

Anyways I didn't vote for the guy, and am just as stunned as anyone else, and am just glad I didn't promise to eat my hat in Trafalgar Sq. or anything. I really thought it was going to be a total blue tidal wave, but I guess I live too much in the NYT/WSJ media bubble. And even though I'm in CA, I would not consider Sacramento a liberal coastal enclave like San Francisco, Boston etc. I'm in the suburbs and its a purple county.

I am suitably chastened.
AKR wrote:I just hope the ideologically pure of heart like Paul Ryan and Ted Cruz can contain the new POTUS impulses.
Apart from ideology, POTUS is as good as the people who you surround with. We have seen it with Bush presidency recently. Trump cast is full of people who are sycophants and authoritarians like sycophants as their fuel. Imagine Trump administration inner circle with people like Rudy, Christie, Carson, Breitbart people, etc. And authoritarians are known for paying big for loyalty.

Ryan and Cruz may not like Trump, but Trump is deal maker (as he calls himself) and will make deals for a quid pro quo. However, Trump has an edge over congress in that, he does not have to make any deal at all. With regards to scrapping obamacare, SC appointees, tax cuts for the super wealthy, repealing obama's exec orders, scrapping climate treaties, go ballistic on epa, etc. he does not have to make any deals with the congress, and republican congress will be on Trump train with no invitation while he can take entire credit for those. But he can use these issues to cut a deal to move his other agendas on border wall, trade, etc.
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Blanquito
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Re: President Trump

Post by Blanquito »

Arv, Hillary will win the popular vote. More importantly, only 108,000 votes in combined total across PA, MI and WI all together separated Trump and Hillary. Literally, a 54,001 vote swing and she ends up with 278 electoral votes (or 274 if she lost NH in a recount), and is the next president.

You really don't think Comey's announcement cost her 100,000 votes across those 3 states (not to mention FL, NC, etc.)? After her poll numbers dropped 5-7 points in many cases shortly after his announcement?

Trump eked out the smallest margin of victory imaginable in the electoral college, and that is all. The only thing "seismic" I see is that the polls were off by 2-3 points and that there are way more people tolerant or supportive of racism, misogyny, hatred, lying, and ignorance than I would have ever guessed on my darkest day.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Blanquito wrote:Arv, Hillary will win the popular vote. More importantly, only 108,000 votes in combined total across PA, MI and WI all together separated Trump and Hillary. Literally, a 54,001 vote swing and she ends up with 278 electoral votes (or 274 if she lost NH in a recount), and is the next president.

You really don't think Comey's announcement cost her 100,000 votes across those 3 states (not to mention FL, NC, etc.)? After her poll numbers dropped 5-7 points in many cases shortly after his announcement?

Trump eked out the smallest margin of victory imaginable in the electoral college, and that is all. The only thing "seismic" I see is that the polls were off by 2-3 points and that there are way more people tolerant or supportive of racism, misogyny, hatred, lying, and ignorance than I would have ever guessed on my darkest day.
Blanquito - those are states she should have won by 10 points or more. She should have had like 58mm votes nationally. Minnesota she won by a mere 40k votes. That state was the sole holdout against the Gipper, preferring Mondale 30+ years ago. Those are numbers that make no sense. That's a state that should have been like +10 or something. NC, IA, OH, what not were also all big pretty big R wins, proportionately.

The popular vote for a normal Dem candidate should usually be much more than GOP person so the fact that its even vaguely close isn't a very powerful argument.

You are trying to blame a snowflake for the avalanche.

If the takeaway from the last night is that 'we wuz robbed by the FBI' then nothing was learned. There is no point in getting kicked a second time by a mule, so I think some of the party elite need to go hat in hand and apologize to crusty Vermonter Bernie. Look how shamefully they treated him, all of them, Wasserman - Brazile - Podesta - Carville etc. He told them all along that HRC had general election weaknesses, but coastal elites don't listen to the heartland. Even that SNL skit where they mocked his underwear hygiene had to have been schemed up by HRC's Hollywood fanboys. Look how the big media beat up another Vermonter, Dr. Dean.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

CV: Speaking of Trump's cast of charlatans who he surrounds himself, I stayed up and watched his speech, and he literally had the Omarosa woman from The Apprentice up on the stage with him. She's like one of his admittedly evil henchmen now, doing his dirty tricks politics.

Also awesomely I see the White House is now talking about a pardon for HRC to protect her.
Last edited by AKR on Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Chateau Vin »

AKR wrote:CV: Speaking of Trump's cast of charlatans who he surrounds himself, I stayed up and watched his speech, and he literally had the Omarosa woman from The Apprentice up on the stage with him. She's like one of his admittedly evil henchmen now, doing his dirty tricks politics.
I saw that too Arv. The henchmen also include Newt, Sessions, Arpaio et. al. The sad part is all the people who were either disapproved/disliked by the public for the same reasons as Hillary, are now part of inner circle about to shape his administration policy. Don't know which direction the country is heading, but looks like a truck without headlights driving on a new moon night.

In fairness, I would forcibly reserve my judgement until he gets the chance to lead, but very concerned with his inner circle. If he ditches the advise of his political inner circle and goes on his own, that could be better to some extent. Which way will he will end up, we might know within 6 months of his presidency. We will see if Trump voters will have buyer's remorse. I hope not...
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Chateau Vin wrote:
AKR wrote:CV: Speaking of Trump's cast of charlatans who he surrounds himself, I stayed up and watched his speech, and he literally had the Omarosa woman from The Apprentice up on the stage with him. She's like one of his admittedly evil henchmen now, doing his dirty tricks politics.
I saw that too Arv. The henchmen also include Newt, Sessions, Arpaio et. al. The sad part is all the people who were either disapproved/disliked by the public for the same reasons as Hillary, are now part of inner circle about to shape his administration policy. Don't know which direction the country is heading, but looks like a truck without headlights driving on a new moon night.

In fairness, I would forcibly reserve my judgement until he gets the chance to lead, but very concerned with his inner circle. If he ditches the advise of his political inner circle and goes on his own, that could be better to some extent. Which way will he will end up, we might know within 6 months of his presidency. We will see if Trump voters will have buyer's remorse. I hope not...
Omarosa will be the one to stick the knives in the backs of his cadres. He went through what 3? campaign managers in the last year or so? How long til they start falling to the wayside, victim to Rasputinesque strategies.

Who knows, he might even pardon HRC himself. He did invite her to his wedding and they are secret NYC buddies. Same with him and Chuck Schumer.
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Re: President Trump

Post by jal »

Shocked is what I have been feeling all day. I was likewise convinced of a huge win for her mostly because I thought (well, I still do think) he is a lowlife sleaze ball and that anyone could see through his bullshit.
Jim, I will never trust in polls again, you were right and I was wrong. 93% chance of winning my ass!
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

The media and pollsters lied to all of us. Poor Kasich. Next week he has to go to Washington, and he thought he was going to be the new big GOP cheese. He thought he was taking care of Portman in OH but it looks like if anything that Trump had the coattails there and in other states.

Bonds have been cratering all day and traders have been ruefully quipping "Trump will make inflation great again"
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Re: President Trump

Post by Nicklasss »

Any pro Trump on BWE?

The USA have what they voted for. Canada has we voted for. North America people like entertainement and emptiness.

I'm starting my demand for visa right now, to have it in time to be able to attend BWE 2017...

But I blame a bit the Democrats also. If they would have been serious, they would have proposed a better candidate.

Life goes on, you're still my friends, and hope we will all laugh about it in 4 years.

Nic
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Re: President Trump

Post by JonathanP »

Any pro Trump on BWE? Surely, there must be. But keeping there heads down. As many of his supporters did with the pollsters. The silent majority? Just like Brexit.
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Re: President Trump

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What a night. I must have woken up 4-5 xs last night and each time the horror show was getting close to reality. Little sleep when Cnn report futures market halted after 5% fall. Guess what though the sun still came up and at least for now cooler heads prevailed and markets rebounded miraculously. I thought we'd see a continued slide butto Everyones reliefdidnt happen. I'll hang onto my seat and see how this unfolds. Good luck to my American friends. It will be interesting times ahead.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

JonathanP wrote:Any pro Trump on BWE? Surely, there must be. But keeping there heads down. As many of his supporters did with the pollsters. The silent majority? Just like Brexit.
I was at the bank before the election and there were two people behind me, one was wearing the MAGA hat, and they started delightedly talking to each other. One confided to the other that they could not put anything on their car since it had gotten vandalized the last time it had a Trump logo. That was a little surprising to me that people would be so douchey, and its not obvious that its only the Clinton fanatics would be doing the defacing, since he had plenty of enemies among the 16 other GOP tribes he offended during his devious usurpation.

So yeah I could easily see Trump supporters hiding from the authorities. I haven't been shy in suggesting that the heretical faction needed to repent and recant on retribution reality Wednesday. And yet now, the whip is the other hand, and if conservatives want to get any of Speaker Ryan's 'Better Way' plan implemented we will have to sue for peace with the barbarians, and make the best of it.

This must have been how Tip O'Neil felt in the 1970's when he had to deal with Jimmy Carter, another era when the Speaker and POTUS were frenemies. How strange that Tip could make deals with Reagan (closing SS loopholes, flattening the tax code) that eluded Carter.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JonathanP »

I certainly noted when I was in FL that the Clinton supporters that I met there seemed more bigoted and intolerant of competing views than Trump ones. They would launch into anyone professing to be pro-Trump and accuse them of being sexist/racist/uneducated (and much worse), without even listening to their viewpoint, whereas the Trump supporters would lay their case, admit they are holding their nose somewhat then shrug their shoulders and profess everyone is entitled to their point of view. I also noted this with regards Remainers against Brexiteers.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Yes I notice that too. So what happens is that the Trump supporters clam up and hide. I think I only knew 3 of them in total. Another friend suggested that I had built a class based bubble echo chamber around our life, so it wasn't surprising that I observed so few practitioning Trumpistas in the wild.

I think I saw that among the French Hollande hasn't extended congratulations, but Marine Le Pin was quick to offer up her praise. Perhaps she will send a bottle of her family Pomerol too. Except that DJT doesn't drink, another powerful strike against him from the drinking class.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JonathanP »

You probably know a lot more, but just do not know that they are as they do not wish for every conversation to be confrontational. Easier to say nothing in such an environment. If everyone around you is discussing fine wine, you are unlikely tomextoll the virtues of cheap beer. But it would not alter the fact that at home you have a fridge full of Budweiser.
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Re: President Trump

Post by jal »

Fine, I am not sure I buy it, but I'll accept the fact that most Trump supporters may have been hiding in the closet for fear of confrontation. I totally buy the change argument, though, I have never been an Obama groupie (I cringed when you put him in #8, Jim, omitting Polk and Truman). I also accept that Hillary was an unacceptable candidate to many voters.

What I am still shocked about is how wrong the pollsters were, I mean we're not talking small margins here, according to all these luminaries, she should have won by a landslide, 93% chance of winning!! And I don't want to hear crap about the FBI, conspiracy theories or popular vote vs electoral college! This should not even have been an issue, the experts should have been able to sift through all this crap and at least give us a hint of how close this could be.
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

The polling experts appear to be no more expert at predicting outcomes than the wine world's Parkers and Sucklings.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JScott »

JonathanP wrote:I certainly noted when I was in FL that the Clinton supporters that I met there seemed more bigoted and intolerant of competing views than Trump ones. They would launch into anyone professing to be pro-Trump and accuse them of being sexist/racist/uneducated (and much worse), without even listening to their viewpoint, whereas the Trump supporters would lay their case, admit they are holding their nose somewhat then shrug their shoulders and profess everyone is entitled to their point of view. I also noted this with regards Remainers against Brexiteers.
This is what I was saying earlier. I interact with literally 10K people annually on a very personal level, from every walk of life, every demographic and background. Increasingly throughout this campaign, I found those on the left easily and freely expressing their views, often denouncing the other side not on position but in moral terms. The Trump supporters whom I saw - and my sense was there were many more than the polls were reflecting - would hesitantly make a few oblique comments, testing the water, before they would 'come out of the closet.' It is my job to be utterly non-judgmental, supportive and sympathetic. I also have to be honest, and I did express my serious reservations about the man, and to a one, every supporter acknowledged it, but went on to talk whatever policy issues concerned them. It is simply a mistake to characterize all of his supporters as bad people with the usual cascade of ists, isms and phobias. I had the sense one side thought they could ultimately shame the other side into coming around, not listening to or addressing the other concerns. If we're being honest, voters on both sides were overlooking major flaws in their candidates, and neither side could claim a moral high ground. The mistake was that only one side seemed to recognize it.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

jal wrote:Fine, I am not sure I buy it, but I'll accept the fact that most Trump supporters may have been hiding in the closet for fear of confrontation. I totally buy the change argument, though, I have never been an Obama groupie (I cringed when you put him in #8, Jim, omitting Polk and Truman). I also accept that Hillary was an unacceptable candidate to many voters.

What I am still shocked about is how wrong the pollsters were, I mean we're not talking small margins here, according to all these luminaries, she should have won by a landslide, 93% chance of winning!! And I don't want to hear crap about the FBI, conspiracy theories or popular vote vs electoral college! This should not even have been an issue, the experts should have been able to sift through all this crap and at least give us a hint of how close this could be.
I am not coming to his defence but as Nate Silver pointed out the post-election narrative would have been very different if just one in a hundred who voted for Trump had voted for HRC.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wha ... nts-makes/
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Having said that I think on both sides of the pond we have under-estimated the resentment of those who have not reaped the benefits of neoliberal globalisation. This article by Naomi Klein hits the nail on the head - I agree 100 % with the diagnosis, less so with her prescriptive cure:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... WEML6619I2
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I wonder how Bernie would have fared.
I'll bet he would have won Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
One thing we know, he wouldn't have done worse than losing.
The public wanted change.
They're tired of the same old establishment politicians.
They're tired of the Clintons, and the Bushes, and the same old hacks like Bayh, Feingold, blah, blah, blah.
I know the Trumpsters don't like it when we say this, and I'm certainly not saying all Trump supporters are racists, but there was some level of a racial element to what happened on Tuesday. As the guy on CNN said, there was a (certain) "white-lash." Trump brought out a pent up hatred in a lot of people that has been stewing for 8 years. That's just one man's opinion.
There also needs to be a housecleaning in the Democratic Party. I have been bitching about it here. Enough of this Chelsea Clinton, Huma Abadin, Nancy Pelosi, Debbie Wasserman, Donna Brazile (yikes, all women) let's-rig-the-primaries-with-"super"-delegates and hand the nomination to Hillary crowd.
The Democratic elites wanted Hillary, and they got her.
The Democratic elites are incredibly arrogant, and they got spanked.
The grass roots wanted Bernie, but the elites did everything they could to cut him off.
Hillary was just an uninspiring candidate. She was same-old-same-old. She didn't campaign hard. Her crowds were uninspired and small. Her polls were declining before the first Comey letter. The Republicans did a number on her. I never bought into the whole email or Benghazi "scandals," but she has had many "issues" over the years that have skirted ethical/legal boundaries.
And this sex stuff, people just don't care about. I personally have no doubt that Trump is a misogynist, but people don't care. in fact, I think the piling on by all the women who came out decades letter had a reverse effect, it gave Trump more ammunition to spread his lies and propaganda against the rigged media, crooked Hillary, etc. I tried to tell you guys that the race was far from over after the Access Hollywood tape.
One thing that this election makes clear is that, when picking a nominee, you better get it right. The weak, bloated, content, elite, arrogant, score-me-tickets-t0-Hamilton-wine-and-cheese-Park-Avenue-crowd Democratic Party picked tired old Hillary and it was the wrong choice. And now we will face disastrous consequences. There will be massive religiosity interjected into public policy at all levels. I predict an "era of Mike Pence," in the same sense that Dick Cheney really ran things behind the scenes in Bush's administration. There will be more gerrymandering, more voter suppression (supported/advanced by a Guilliani DOJ and ultra-conservative federal judges), Roe v. Wade is dead as a door knob, there will be infringements on a free press, the white male will be back with a Mad Men vengeance the likes of which we haven't seen since, well, the sixties.
There will be an increase in terrorism in this country, with predictable Patriot-Act-like responses.
There will be more poverty. The hate, bigotry, war-against-the-poor that guys like Paul LePage have perpetrated in places like up here in northern Maine will continue to spread in large pockets across the country. Trump, who like Bush campaigned as a non-interventionist, will instead, like W, be quick to invoke th U.S. military in the middle east and elsewhere.
I'm dying to see how The Wall and his trade proposals all pan out.
And on and on….
It's gonna be very ugly.
The U.S. public was hoodwinked by a demagogue.
But the Democrats share a lot of the blame for not recognizing what the game was.
The two most dangerous men in the country right now are Mike Pence and Paul Ryan. Mark my words.
Ah well, I could go on for hours but I gotta rush off to court.

The American public is very, very stupid and malleable.
This country just totally sucks. It used to be a great place.
But now we are becoming a broken, failed society.
And it is going to get a lot worse….

Time for a revolution….

Warren-Klobuchar '20!
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: President Trump

Post by Comte Flaneur »

What about Warren-How?
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote:I wonder how Bernie would have fared.
...
Warren-Klobuchar '20!
That's certainly a ticket I could get behind!

I believe that Hillary Clinton would have been a very good to excellent president.
Bernie would also have been a very good to excellent president, but for different reasons.

Not enough people appreciate the value of having the orderly, steady handed, detail oriented style of an intellectual president to steer the country.
Most people run on their emotions (without ever understanding their source) and want someone to "lead" them with visceral excitement, even if it is to run off a cliff.
After 8 years of intellectual order in the white house, we are going to have an emotional president.
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