President Trump

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johnz
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Re: President Trump

Post by johnz »

As awful and completely undeserving as Trump is, he is under tremendous pressure from almost everyone, including the Main Street Media, opposition Washington Insiders and political parties, and the Deep State (Military/Security/Intelligence/Corporate interests), which controls everything, does not trust the Donald to fully implement and continue the newest cold war with Russia/China. The last president to challenge the CIA was JFK. I don't see how Trump can survive without bending. I think "things" are much worse than any of us believe, and much more dangerous.

--Gary Rust
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AKR
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Re: President Trump

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johnz wrote:As awful and completely undeserving as Trump is, he is under tremendous pressure from almost everyone, including the Main Street Media, opposition Washington Insiders and political parties, and the Deep State (Military/Security/Intelligence/Corporate interests), which controls everything, does not trust the Donald to fully implement and continue the newest cold war with Russia/China. The last president to challenge the CIA was JFK. I don't see how Trump can survive without bending. I think "things" are much worse than any of us believe, and much more dangerous.

--Gary Rust
Maybe DJT will get a Facebook account and start defriending his critics/enemies/wives.
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AKR
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

My favorite line from the mass media today, I think from the DJT official spokesperson

“He’s been in awe of the awesomeness of our country.”
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Re: President Trump

Post by marcs »

JimHow wrote:Hillary Clinton, like her husband, is a political opportunist.
She is owned by Wall Street.
She supported bankruptcy "reform," harming poor people and helping rich bankers, because Citi and others gave her millions.
She supported the Defense of Marriage Act because it was politically correct in the 1990s, when some of us supported gay rights and paid a political cost.
She voted for the war because it was the "patriotic" <rolls eyes> thing to do. Bernie spoke out eloquently against the war on the floor of the Senate.
She and her husband "ended welfare as we know it" in the 90s, devastating millions living in poverty.
She was for free trade, then she was against free trade when it was politically unwise.
She was an enabler for her sexual predator husband.
The list goes on and on and on.
She is part of the arrogant Debbie Wasserman/Nancy Pilozi/Donna Brazile/Chelsea Clinton Park Avenue crowd that spent all their time cavorting with the rich and famous and grooming the "superdelegates" <rolls eyes> of the arrogant Democratic Party to rig the election against Bernie, whose campaign, whether you like him or not, had a grassroots energy that was similar to Trump's. Hillary's support was from the top down. Bernie would have spanked The Donald from sea to shining sea.
The Democrats got what they asked for.
The New York Times elites will never "get it" why Hillary lost.
She was an awful, grotesque, career politician. People out in the real world are fed up with that crowd.
Thus, they elected Donald J. Trump.
Despite all of her grotesqueness, she would have probably squeaked it out but for Comey's interfering.
This list is not "post truth" -- while it of course contains a lot of rhetoric and subjective judgments, there is a very solid, clear, and publicly available factual base under every single one of the claims about Hillary. A lot of people are in denial about just how bad a candidate Hillary was and how tone-deaf it was to nominate her. While reopening the wounds of the election is not always a good idea, it's important that a critical mass of the party reach a basic understanding because otherwise we may get another stinker of a candidate foisted on us in the future.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Maybe the strategy should be not to proffer up another formulaic, machine Democrat out of some ironclad Blue State, but rather to find a telegenic media man/woman of the people. Maybe Oprah Winfrey or Denzel Washington or Tom Brady. Everybody loves those three, well especially the first two.
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Re: President Trump

Post by tim »

Then again, maybe the BernieBOTS need to man up and realize that their accusations of Hillary are completely fabricated and not factually based. I have more ill-will toward the false accusations of the far left about Hillary than the accusations of the right wing. This election has caused a split in the Democratic Party that is not going to be resolved soon. And the Republicans will benefit from this for the foreseeable future.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

I think the schism in the GOP is larger actually.
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AlexR
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Re: President Trump

Post by AlexR »

Hi guys,

I thought you might be amused by this link with messages on signs carried during yesterday's demonstration:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/po ... a5cac3a4f8

I particularly liked:

Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Czar/ Putin Made You What You Are

Alex R.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

It's already going badly for the new president.
The women's march brought more people to Washington than the inauguration. Not to mention the millions who marched in cities across the US and around the world.
The WH press secretary was told by the Donald to yell at the press for their "fake" coverage of the inauguration crowd size. Media is apparently ignoring his demands.
President's speech at the CIA memorial wall gets an F by former director Brennan wh says he should be ashamed. Expect a mutiny from his intelligence community soon.
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Re: President Trump

Post by tim »

It certainly makes a difference between bluster on the campaign trail and bluster in office.

I argued long ago that the Republicans will control Congress until at least 2022 due to gerrymandering. I am probably wrong about that. The Democrats may have a chance to take it back in 2018.
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

Spicer cones out with bald-faced lies in the very first press "briefing" (no questions allowed).

When called on it on MTP, Kelly Ann CONway denies they are lies, saying they are "alternative facts." How about an alternative POTUS? That I could get behind.

The press is finally starting to call out Trump and his team as deliberately lying liars. So sad that they didn't start doing this a year ago. It was just as obvious yet the networks were more interested in ratings than the truth. If the press hadn't been so disgracefully delinquently spineless we might not be in this spot.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

The press, and HRC, probably figured that Trump would sell more newspapers, and lead to a Dem landslide so they were all in favor of him.

Next up to get screwed will be the many GOP constituencies whose years of lobbying dollars will discover merely mark them for hunting down. Defense and Big Pharma look like they will be first victims.

I just hope imported French wine is too small for him to notice.

But one never knows with teetotalers.

You just can't trust them.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

SNL did the best skit ever on KellyAnne Conway.
Here's a link to it on Huffpo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kel ... d8cad3228a
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Re: President Trump

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Ian, that is brilliant!
Best

Jacques
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

Racer Chris wrote:SNL did the best skit ever on KellyAnne Conway.
Here's a link to it on Huffpo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kel ... d8cad3228a
That's awesome although in the pantheon of SNL and the new administration, truly all the stars revolve around Alec Baldwin.

These next four years will be so joyfully entertaining.
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Re: President Trump

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That was funny Ian.

Torture, not so much:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/ ... g-torture/
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

I think what he really wants to do is bring back torture, and then put it on his Twitter feed, to boost his viewership/ratings/Nielsens.
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Re: President Trump

Post by DavidG »

The NYT begins to speak truth to power:

A Lie by Any Other Name

Nice piece, but about 6 months too late. I'll give them credit for finally publishing it, but that hardly makes a dent in their shameful performance prior to the election. The Times and the rest of the print media were closer to the truth at an earlier stage than broadcast media. But they failed miserably at fulfilling their responsibility of shining a light on the steaming pile of dung that was the Trump narrative during the campaign. They've got a long journey back to respectability. Glad to see that they've started on it.
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Re: President Trump

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DavidG wrote:The NYT begins to speak truth to power:

A Lie by Any Other Name

Nice piece, but about 6 months too late. I'll give them credit for finally publishing it, but that hardly makes a dent in their shameful performance prior to the election. The Times and the rest of the print media were closer to the truth at an earlier stage than broadcast media. But they failed miserably at fulfilling their responsibility of shining a light on the steaming pile of dung that was the Trump narrative during the campaign. They've got a long journey back to respectability. Glad to see that they've started on it.
David, no surprise but I disagree. I think the Times was anti everything Trump from the get go. Calling him on his lies, his misogyny, his business shenanigans, his lies. I don't think I've seen one opinion writer say anything positive about Trump. Ever. Be it the leftist ones (Friedman, Krugman, Dowd, Collins,Cohen, Blow, Bruni or Kristof) or the rightist (Douthat, Brooks). Just go to the NYTimes Opinion page, click at Columnists and see everyone's past columns - they are all vehemently anti Trump and have been for a long long time.

I, like you, am still trying to make sense of this election. The media? Comey? the Russians? How did that happen? And I am now convinced the fault is with us on the left. We pride ourselves on being open minded and tolerant yet, instead of engaging the people who disagree with us we hurl insults at them. We call them stupid, ignorant, deplorable, even racists. Sure, some of them are but not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist. I strongly believe that unless we engage the other side, understand what motivated more than 50 million people to vote for that "steaming pile of dung" (I totally agree with your definition of the man btw), we will repeat the same mistake again and again. And if we continue to hurl insults at them, then we should not expect any different outcome.
Best

Jacques
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Back from Thailand, reading through this thread.

David, I love you man, but you guys have got to stop blaming everybody else for Hillary's loss.
Are you really saying that the NYT and the left media did not cover DJT's faults?
I can find you literally hundreds of articles like that one from the NYT long before Election Day.

There are no big mysteries here.
Trump won because the American economic manufacturing base is collapsing.
And the public is really ignorant. And xenophobic. And racist. Add in a tincture of Comey for good measure. We've seen this before in history.
All the ingredients were there for a Trump.
Heck, I started this thread TWO summers ago. Many of us saw him tapping into something in the disturbed American psyche, LONG before Bernie got going.

The out-of-touch Hillary crowd needs to stop blaming Bernie (who ended up campaigning aggressively for her), the New York Times (puhleeze, that one takes the cake), etc., for Hillary's defeat.

They need to look at the rigged super-delegate primary system, the worship of Wall Street, the arrogance, inability to adapt, bizarre unwillingness to campaign in rust belt states, the one-speech-every-three-days-strategy, the Clinton fatigue, of the Democratic Party.

Blaming Bernie Sanders and his supporters for having the audacity to run an aggressive campaign is pathetic, loser, sour grapes by the Debbie Wasserman crowd. It is the type of arrogance and entitlement that has left us with this madman we have in there. Elections matter, and it is amazing that we left the fate of the free world to the likes of Wasserman et al.

Bernie Sanders would have crushed Donald Trump in this election. He would have not been the darling of the Hillary crowd. (I have no doubt more of you Clinton supporters would not have supported Bernie in the general, just like you are complaining the Bernie crowd didn't support Hillary hard enough.) A Sanders presidency would have been tough to swallow for Clinton supporters like David, Timmy, Chris, and millions of others around the country. I don't agree with everything Bernie says either but he would have been light years better than Trump.
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Racer Chris
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

I was for Bernie first, but happy to support Mrs Clinton after the primary was over.
Either would have been a competent president IMO.

The latest thing I heard, last night, is that two Russian intelligence operatives were charged with treason in December.
One was likely the leaker of Trump files to the retired british agent, and the other was in charge of keeping leaks from happening.
From our intelligence community perspective, this is near confirmation of the existence of Russian dirt on Trump.
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Re: President Trump

Post by stefan »

Trump won the Republican primary. How can the left be blamed for that? That primary was about as open as any we have seen and Trump blew away the field. I did not understand that then and do not now.
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Re: President Trump

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He used the old divide and conquer scheme. And then has beens like Karl Rove spent 100mm on keeping Jeb Bush zombie walking around so that support could not coalesce around a positive, uplifting electable GOP flag bearer.

At least Ted Cruz fought the gallant fight to the convention.

But I also agree with JimHow.

The world has changed, and its angry now. Sort of like the 1920-1930's.

The next 15-20 years will be just as wrenching as they were 100 years ago.

These things go in long cycles.

It was not so long ago in France that the Bordelais estate owners were separated from their heads, and the Church had all its properties sequestered.

And now there is threats of 20% tariffs on imported Tequila.

I just hope DJT doesn't turn his baleful orange gaze toward the Libournaise.
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Re: President Trump

Post by jal »

stefan wrote:Trump won the Republican primary. How can the left be blamed for that? That primary was about as open as any we have seen and Trump blew away the field. I did not understand that then and do not now.
Yup, this one I also have a hard time understanding. The field was populated with lousy candidates (Ted Cruz? Chris Christie? Ben Carson? enough to make one puke), and maybe the only viable candidate there was imo Jeb Bush but he was not helped by his last name.
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Re: President Trump

Post by AKR »

My wife thinks DJT is suffering the early effects of age related mental issues.

Symptoms include the short temper, hyper sensitivity to slights, impulse control, incoherent ranting, affection for the same clothes repeatedly, etc.

Sadly these were all observed in my FiL before he was formally diagnosed, and then put on medicines that slowed the progression.

Perhaps the day will come when the Cabinet will have to ask another Speaker of the House to step forward and bear the Oval Office burden.
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Re: President Trump

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Jim and Jacques, the print media did report negatively on Trump. Not (IMO) to a degree commensurate with his inadequacies. I said as much (or tried to) in my post above. I reserve my greatest umbrage for the broadcast media, which has much greater influence, and was much much worse. They would cut away from a Clinton policy speech to cover Trump's latest vapid, lie-filled blathering. Which he purposely scheduled to compete with her events. He'd yell "Squirrel!" and the media would go chasing him up a tree like ADHD hounds overdue for their Adderal. They did it time and again, because it was titillating and drove up ratings. They abdicated their responsibility. I'm not sure they were even aware of their responsibility.

And Jim, you can go ahead and keep thinking that statement above is blaming the press for Clinton's poor performance. But this is more than an either/or issue. The media was one factor. A big one. Not the only one. Comey was a factor. Obviously Clinton was the biggest factor. She had trouble connecting. She and the Ds failed to recognize and address the great economic disparity that convinced a minority of voters to pull the lever for Trump, but more importantly she badly miscalculated how that minority would play out state by state. She wasn't the evil money-grubber you are convinced she is. You might be able to fault her for letting the opposition and the media define her as such when she is probably cleaner than most in Congress. I don't fault you for buying into that illusion. Millions did. It was a powerful illusion.

I do agree with Jacques that we have to get past the demonization of the Trump voters to better understand their motivation. It's not all racism and xenophobia. A lot of it is self-interest, which motivates voters on the left as well as the right, and a lot of that is economic. A lot of Trump voters will likely find that he's not going to make America great for them. That doesn't make them stupid. Just susceptible to influence, magnified by the frustrating economic times. Not that I think Sanders has all the answers. I disagree vehemently with many of his policies. But he asks the right questions and communicates effectively. Ds have a lot to learn from him and Warren. Much as her naggy tone grates on me, she's got a lot to offer too.

So if I've demonized Trump voters as a whole, I'll say now that it was an improper generalization. Albeit made easy enough by the loudmouthed racists and bigots and morons in his camp who did get plenty of publicity, combined with the utter horror on my part to see Trump in the Oval Office. But I'm starting to come to grips with the reality of it. I'll save the demonization for Trump himself. He does deserve it, as well as every measure of resistance to his foolishness that we can muster. While we try to kick his ass, we also need to do as Jacques suggests and reconnect with the middle and lower class electorate.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Blanquito »

DavidG wrote:Jim and Jacques, the print media did report negatively on Trump. Not (IMO) to a degree commensurate with his inadequacies. I said as much (or tried to) in my post above. I reserve my greatest umbrage for the broadcast media, which has much greater influence, and was much much worse. They would cut away from a Clinton policy speech to cover Trump's latest vapid, lie-filled blathering. Which he purposely scheduled to compete with her events. He'd yell "Squirrel!" and the media would go chasing him up a tree like ADHD hounds overdue for their Adderal. They did it time and again, because it was titillating and drove up ratings. They abdicated their responsibility. I'm not sure they were even aware of their responsibility.

And Jim, you can go ahead and keep thinking that statement above is blaming the press for Clinton's poor performance. But this is more than an either/or issue. The media was one factor. A big one. Not the only one. Comey was a factor. Obviously Clinton was the biggest factor. She had trouble connecting. She and the Ds failed to recognize and address the great economic disparity that convinced a minority of voters to pull the lever for Trump, but more importantly she badly miscalculated how that minority would play out state by state. She wasn't the evil money-grubber you are convinced she is. You might be able to fault her for letting the opposition and the media define her as such when she is probably cleaner than most in Congress. I don't fault you for buying into that illusion. Millions did. It was a powerful illusion.

I do agree with Jacques that we have to get past the demonization of the Trump voters to better understand their motivation. It's not all racism and xenophobia. A lot of it is self-interest, which motivates voters on the left as well as the right, and a lot of that is economic. A lot of Trump voters will likely find that he's not going to make America great for them. That doesn't make them stupid. Just susceptible to influence, magnified by the frustrating economic times. Not that I think Sanders has all the answers. I disagree vehemently with many of his policies. But he asks the right questions and communicates effectively. Ds have a lot to learn from him and Warren. Much as her naggy tone grates on me, she's got a lot to offer too.

So if I've demonized Trump voters as a whole, I'll say now that it was an improper generalization. Albeit made easy enough by the loudmouthed racists and bigots and morons in his camp who did get plenty of publicity, combined with the utter horror on my part to see Trump in the Oval Office. But I'm starting to come to grips with the reality of it. I'll save the demonization for Trump himself. He does deserve it, as well as every measure of resistance to his foolishness that we can muster. While we try to kick his ass, we also need to do as Jacques suggests and reconnect with the middle and lower class electorate.
Preaching to the choir here, but I think this a brilliant and funny post. David, you said it better than I or most anyone could.

I really don't get the Hillary hate, except to chalk it up to the effectiveness of systematic, decadal propaganda against her. The Clintons are not flawless by any means, but the level of vitriol aimed at her is shocking and far beyond what she deserves. My sister, via her husband, knows Chelsea, and has been the to Clinton's place in Westchester as Chelsea's guest. She has met Hillary in informal circumstances more than once, including a Thanksgiving dinner, and loved Hillary. For me, that direct experience from a trusted family member means a lot. But maybe that is telling, that when Hillary is herself, the public likes her (as we know is true), but when the Rs define her, she was unable to rise above that and connect beyond a small circle.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

You don't get the Hillary hate, Patrick.
Neither did Jon Podesta and company, apparently, as they rolled out their aggressive, epic, one-speech-every-three-days, ignore-the-rust-belt strategy.... A sure-fire winner. As Jacques sort of said in another way, the Democratic elites just took the middle working class for granted. There has been an incredible elitism and arrogance, an our-shit-doesn't-stink, an all-we-gotta-do-is-pull-out-Bruce-at-the-end attitude in the Democratic Party that has come home to roost... big time. The vast majority of the American population just ain't like the Clintons. Wake up, Democrats! You have lost the presidency. You've lost the Senate. You've lost the House. You've lost the SCOTUS. You've lost the governorships. You've lost the state legislatures, and the city councils, and the zoning boards, and the dog catchers. Maybe it is YOU who is out of touch with reality! Those of us in places like Lewiston, Maine, have seen this coming for a long time. Those who think the Clintons are unpopular merely because of a supposed right wing drubbing I guess will just never see what we see.
Having said all that, Clinton still wins this race but for Comey.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Here's what Liz Warren said about Hillary back in 2004... Is she a "Hillary Hater?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gnu0XNPgHk

Of course, for a LOT more, just type "Hitchens" and "Clinton" into Youtube.

These are not your usual Fox News apologists.

By the way.... Until this election season Bill O'Reilley and most of Fox has always been quite fair to Hillary in my opinion. She has on repeated occasions rubbed elbows with Rupert Murdoch.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote:You don't get the Hillary hate, Patrick.
Hatred is a neurosis, ie. an internal, non-organic barrier to need fulfillment.
HIllary is merely a scapegoat.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Are you a Trump hater Chris?
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote:Are you a Trump hater Chris?
No. I don't hate the man, but I do think he is mentally infirm.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Blanquito »

So far, Trump invokes much more fear than hate, for me at least.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I see:
So if you are against Trump you don't "hate" him.
But if you are against Hillary, you are a "Hillary hater."
Got it.
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

I voted for Hillary.
She is a woman. For me, women's issues are just about at the top.
It is unconscionable that so many more women and children live in poverty.
And that women only earn 77 cents on the dollar compared to men.
And that old white men try to tell young women what they can and can't do with their own bodies.
So Hillary being a woman, and her support of women's rights, is a big issue for me.
One of the biggest reasons why I held my nose and voted for her.

The other big reason is that, love her or hate her, nobody can deny she is a very intelligent woman.
Very intelligent. I need my presidents to be intelligent. She knows the issues inside and out. Won at least two of the three debates, hands down.

But....
Political courage? Sorry. F-minus.
Character? I'm sorry. She's every bit as slick as Bubba.

She's an establishment politician who ran at a time when the public is fed up to its nostrils with establishment politicians.
Sure, she got hammered by Fox, and Comey, and others. Fox has good ratings relative to other networks but it occupies only a small minority of the overall news, a much smaller share than the overall Hillary-friendly mainstream media when you combine CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, PBS, etc., etc.
Too bad she got hammered. She can get in line with the likes of Ed Muskie, Mike Dukakis, John Kerry, and all of the other Democratic losers who have been outsmarted by the ruthless GOP. She's a loser. She was a favorite going into the primaries against Obama in 2008 and she got smoked by this unknown novice from Chicago. She was the overwhelming favorite in this year's election season. She nearly lost to a communist, and then she ended up losing to a Nazi. It was handed to her and she STILL got smoked.
She was a TERRIBLE candidate, hand-picked by the elites of the Democratic National Committee.
And now we are all paying a dear price.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote:I see:
So if you are against Trump you don't "hate" him.
But if you are against Hillary, you are a "Hillary hater."
Got it.
Um, I think it was you who brought up the hate for Hillary, so don't put words in my mouth.
I'm not merely against Trump, to me much of his behavior is antithetical to what I value in men, especially men who would be leaders.
That's not hatred, its a rational viewpoint developed through direct observation.
After watching him for one week in office I'm even more frightened that he could destroy the country in his quest for personal aggrandizement.
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Re: President Trump

Post by Racer Chris »

JimHow wrote:I voted for Hillary.
...
And now we are all paying a dear price.
I can appreciate all of that. :)
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Re: President Trump

Post by JimHow »

Ah well, just when I get down, I read this story about my nephew Jack in the local newspaper and his school project on the Holocaust:

http://www.sunjournal.com/news/lewiston ... st/2067084
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