President Trump

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:29 pm

It has all been down hill since another Friday afternoon 56 years ago today....

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:03 pm

Gary Rust..

that was the most accurate description of the state of affairs that i've heard anywhere....i could not agree more....and couldn't have said it better myself.
unfortunately with all of Trump's flaws, he is the lesser of all evils. since taking office, other than pissing many people off, i don't think the average citizen is worse off in any way and probably better off with tax cuts, increasing wages, manufacturing revival in the US and a firm trade policy taking center stage. i have to give him credit for attempting to bringing back the American dream back to America, something that has been lost for at least a decade before him taking office.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:24 am

For those of us doing reasonably well financially, that may be true. For now. I’m more worried about the long-term effect that will take years to manifest, following his judicial appointments. It is amazing all the good that an arch-conservative US Supreme Court can undue with a single stroke of the pen. And if re-elected, Trump will certainly get one more appointment.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:33 pm

That is the most accurate description of the state of affairs that I have heard anywhere OB.
To give Donald Trump credit for “bringing back the American dream” is a pretty hard one to swallow.
Yeah, if your American Dream is Jim Crow, and the bigotry and hate towards people of color, the poor, women... If your “American Dream” is mocking people with disabilities, and “locking up” political opponents, and questioning the citizenship of the first black American president, and siding with the racists in mass shootings, and I could go on for hours....
If that’s your “dream” for America, Emil, I think you should have another glass of Bordeaux. That is indeed the “American dream” for a significant population of the American white race. For the rest of the population, though, it has been a nightmare. And Orlando Bobby has nailed it... The Trump/McConnell lifetime judicial appointments will being us your “American dream” for decades to come, long after they are gone. Like Gary said, the Democrats are same as the old boss. But No, Emil, Orange Head isn’t the lesser of two evils....

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:59 pm

I happen to disagree with most of Trump's policies, I think they are short sighted and provide just a temporary stimulus, I was not crazy about some of Obama's policies (or lack thereof), I definitely did not like some of George Bush policies but that is not the point. One can disagree but the problem with Trump is one of morality. I always felt that previous presidents (at least since Reagan (I didn't live in this country prior to 1982) were doing a public service, were men of high moral standards and had the interest of the nation and all its citizens as a priority (yes, even Clinton!).
Trump I feel has the moral compass of a hyena, denigrates at least half the nation to say nothing of the rest of the globe, and has only his and his immediate circle's interest in mind, to the detriment of everything around him. The fact that we seem to benefit from his policies is only due to luck. He reminds more of a third world dictator than the leader of the free world. The sooner we get rid of this scumbag, the better we ALL are.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:17 pm

When I saw the reference to Trump bringing back American dream, I thought maybe the definition of American dream needs to be revisited... I personally think it is just more than just able to own a home with a white picket fence...

But anyway, I DVRed the hearings and watched pretty much all important testimonies. Instead of paying attention to the accolades and noddings of one side and denunciations from the other sides, I urge to listen to what the witnesses are saying about the facts and their credibility. Forget for a moment whether it raises enough or meets the bar of impeachment. Throw out the political shades one is wearing and the arguments of spin doctors. Everyone is endowed with the ability of being just without any leanings and don’t need hand-holding from so called political pundits. Just look at the facts and ask yourself what do these facts mean. You will have the answer...

I disagree with Jacques a bit about Reagan, Clinton et al about their moral compass. He is being a bit generous I think... Every president’s moral compass in modern history IMO is questionable (It’s just the degree to which it differs from the others. About Trump’s, I will leave it to fellow BWErs where to peg his...). It’s just that they operated within the bounds of law. Sure, they bent the law, but generally operated within norms and bounds of the law.

Although there might be exceptions, I presume that most of the BWErs were able to hold on with less tension during 2008 recession. Just after that, quite a bit of economic research was coming out, and looking at the numbers I can assure you that US has indeed dodged a bullet! The downturn was just not about the housing market, which we are most aware of! I hear ‘american dream’ lost during prior decade, but I would say that it could have been far more worse and for far more people. Whether you like Obama or not, politics aside, I personally think he gets far too less credit for his administration’s role in pulling the US out of that recession, given the conditions. I suggest reading ‘House of Debt’ by Univ of Chicago press based on numbers and facts. But be aware that it was just about housing crisis, not about other aspects of economy that we were facing.

As per Jacques’ reference to authoritarianism in developing countries, Americans don’t have a clue about it, so much so that they can’t even recognize it when they see one...(not having a clue because you have democracy is a good thing, but not able to recognize it is a bad thing). But anyway, the way things are going, it’s more likely that current state of affairs will go further down before they can turn up...

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:09 pm

For me the American dream is working hard and earning a fair wage i can keep, buy a home and give my children a better life than the one my parents gave me. Chateau Vin....i agree with what you said about the 2008 economic swoon and it partly may be responsible for a good part of American relying on Federal Aid to survive.

If i came across as a supporter of Trump, than that is not the case. I would love to see this country get back to its roots and if Trump is the one that needs to open our eyes to what is less than effective gov't than he is just a character in the script.

I'm not here to argue with anyone as i know less than most you on this subject. I do know that i came to this country as an immigrant and can say that we as a country are far departed from the values our parents and grandparents who built this country. More importantly, i'm not sure the opportunity they had is available to our children.

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:06 pm

Jim

My work involves serving the most underprivileged members of our society. That includes single mothers, primarily people of color and illegal immigrants who don't know who to turn to for advice.

My message is not that i think Trump is the answer to our problems. On the contrary, i think he is destroying what has been built over the last 2 decades. I don't really like what the Democrats have created over the last 2 decades either. Just don't agree with policies that support people standing with their hand out collecting a free "Obama phone" if they are Medicaid eligible. I'd like those people to earn for themselves. Collecting $15 an hour wage and paying $1500 a month rent in NYC isn't the answer to supporting a family. Changes need to be made and we need, as a country to strengthen our industries so that even those that don't have a formal education can survive by working and not collecting welfare. Bringing back manufacturing to the US where people take pride in the product that goes on the shelves for other Americans to consume is just one idea that i actually believe works for such change.

I agree i do need to drink more Bordeaux. Hope we can do it together soon.

brodway · Post by **brodway** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:10 pm

He reminds more of a third world dictator than the leader of the free world.

Jacques....of course that is what he thinks he is. He is certainly not a a representative of your or me, but he is the solution to us acknowledging that we have a problem and we need to appoint the right people to lead this country. I've seen many sidestep being in charge because they just don't want to deal with the scrutiny.

Hope to see you and Jill soon. Its been way too long.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:10 pm

. i have to give him credit for attempting to bringing back the American dream back to America,

I have to give him credit for attempting to bring back the "American dream" to America as well, Emil, the "American dream" of the bigots and haters and racists that have haunted our country for more than two centuries.

As Jacques so eloquenty put it:

He is a scumbag.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:50 pm

JimHow wrote:
. i have to give him credit for attempting to bringing back the American dream back to America,

He is a scumbag.

ZERO points to you, Jim, for being generous and dishonest...

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:07 pm

brodway wrote:
Hope to see you and Jill soon. Its been way too long.

It has been Emil. Miss you brother

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:49 pm

I think you edited my message there, CV....

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:29 am

brodway wrote:For me the American dream is working hard and earning a fair wage i can keep, buy a home and give my children a better life than the one my parents gave me. Chateau Vin....i agree with what you said about the 2008 economic swoon and it partly may be responsible for a good part of American relying on Federal Aid to survive.

If i came across as a supporter of Trump, than that is not the case. I would love to see this country get back to its roots and if Trump is the one that needs to open our eyes to what is less than effective gov't than he is just a character in the script.

I'm not here to argue with anyone as i know less than most you on this subject. I do know that i came to this country as an immigrant and can say that we as a country are far departed from the values our parents and grandparents who built this country. More importantly, i'm not sure the opportunity they had is available to our children.

brodway, even if you are a Trump supporter, I will not have any beef with you or others. I myself an immigrant too, and would love to see everyone calm down and take a pause in this heated environment. Because, as we know, demagogues thrive in chaos and make hay at the expense of everyone else...

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:04 pm

I just noticed that this thread is rapidly approaching a quarter million views - pretty amazing. What I first noticed was the "what have you bought lately" thread had 132,000 views. That's lots of eyeballs. It would be interesting if we could tell how much of that is from actual members vs. lurkers.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:30 am

First generation American here. My parents came over after Castro came to power. Fortunately for my parents, they were both college educated here before Castro took over.

My father is a life-long Republican. But he fears Trump. Trump is a dictator. A Mussolini. A Franco. A petty, despotic, brutal dictator, that if not for the strong infrastructure and rule of law in this country, he would be more like a Pinochet, or God forbid, worse. He is corrupt, he cares not for human rights, his entire universe is about the narcissistic consolidation of power. I trust my father’s concerns. My father will not, and did not, vote for him.

I would posit that this is the most important election of our generation. Getting him out of office is critical to our Democracy. And that said, I also posit that Democrats are doing everything in their power to lose in an election that is imminently winnable. Tacking to the extreme left, when a person like Trump came to power by consolidating the right along with moderates and economic conservatives, will doom this election yet again for Democrats.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:39 am

We will discuss this further in February OB, when I come visit you guys.
We'll drink some fine northern Medocs.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:51 am

I know you guys don't believe that I think Orange is like the worst thing that has happened to this country, but I'm afraid I must sound like I am siding with him again when I ask the question:

Exactly why should he be forced to release his last 7 years of federal tax returns to the hyperpartisan opposition party?

Why should ANYWONE be required to release the last 7 years of their tax returns?

I've always been opposed to this notion that presidential candidates should be required to release tax returns.
Tax returns, of ALL things American, should be sacredly confidential.

When we start routinely allowing partisans of either party to fabricate reasons for the release of tax returns, we have truly evolved into the realm of Big Brother and anarchy.

If there are problems, this is why we have the IRS and federal prosecutors.

Adam Schiff belongs nowhere near Orange Head's or anybody else's tax returns.

SCOTUS agrees, but of course the problem there is that they are hyper-partisanized and will find reason to allow such inquiry when the shoe is on the other foot.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:44 am

JimHow wrote:I know you guys don't believe that I think Orange is like the worst thing that has happened to this country, but I'm afraid I must sound like I am siding with him again when I ask the question:

I believe you, but the problem is you are self-critiquing too much to the point of going overboard...

JimHow wrote:Exactly why should he be forced to release his last 7 years of federal tax returns to the hyperpartisan opposition party?

Why should ANYWONE be required to release the last 7 years of their tax returns?

No, he shouldn't be forced, unless there is a valid lawful reason...no different than a law enforcement asking for an ordinary citizen's tax returns if there is an evidence of wrongdoing...

JimHow wrote:I've always been opposed to this notion that presidential candidates should be required to release tax returns.
Tax returns, of ALL things American, should be sacredly confidential.

When you say "presidential candidates", it is misleading. There is no law that requires presidential candidates to release tax returns. It is just voluntary for presidential candidates to release their returns for the public to see. Otherwise, DJT would have been forced to do so before 2016. I don't know if you are aware, CA recently passed a law requiring all presidential candidates (aiming at DJT, obviously) to release tax returns, which, by the way was struck down by CA supreme court.

JimHow wrote:When we start routinely allowing partisans of either party to fabricate reasons for the release of tax returns, we have truly evolved into the realm of Big Brother and anarchy.

If there are problems, this is why we have the IRS and federal prosecutors.

Adam Schiff belongs nowhere near Orange Head's or anybody else's tax returns.

Again, I am afraid the facts are different than your understanding with respect to DJT's release of tax returns. Congress (I think rather committees in this case) asked for DJT's tax returns based on investigations about DJT's bank fraud and tax fraud (which Cohen gave testimony how DJT had two books, one for paying taxes and the other for obtaining bank loans), and campaign finance violations (his hush money payments through his charity, etc.). It's hard for me to believe the notion that congress has fabicated reasons when according to Cohen, DJT fabricated his account books. So the congressional committees asked IRS for the tax returns, and Treasury Sec stopped the handover of tax returns at the behest of DJT. DOJ's Bill Barr said there is nothing to see here, and refused to look into these alleged violations although we know that Mueller punted some of these related issues to SDNY. So the congress had to subpoena the docs, which is now tied up in courts.

JimHow wrote:SCOTUS agrees, but of course the problem there is that they are hyper-partisanized and will find reason to allow such inquiry when the shoe is on the other foot.

I don't think SCOTUS rendered a final decision, but I wouldn't be surprised based on the partisan divide of the bench...How sad it is that the day has come where SCOTUS is just viewed as a partisan tool....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:49 am

Not a comment on Orange, just an opportunity to recognize Roger Cohen, who I think is hands down the best op-ed columnist for the failing NYT. I don't go anywhere near Friedman and Krugman, Gail Collins, David Brooks, and Russ Douthat are just...boring, and Maureen Dowd is a clown. I've liked some of Jamelle Bouie's stuff, albeit unapologetically from the left.

But Roger Cohen's articles to me, consistently, show a depth worthy of the newspaper of record. Today's article i just thought was particularly poignant:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/opin ... e=Homepage

P.S.:
CV...
Just read your last mesage.
No need to "be afraid...."
It's going to be okay.
I watched the first half of "The Autopsy of Jane Doe" on Netflix last night.
Now THAT made me afraid!

Again, I am afraid the facts are different than your understanding with respect to DJT's release of tax returns.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:23 am

Are you guys having fun yet?

What a disaster.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:27 am

Watching Hannity tonight.
He is in rare form.
The Republicans are frothing at the mouth. Rabid.
Herr Trump had the Reading PA crowd ready to go to war tonight. They will die for him.

The Dems?
Two "resounding" <rolls eyes> impeachment articles.
"Abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress" by a President.
Good grief.
Eh, maybe we should censure the big guy....

What a cluster.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:08 pm

Riveting television Jim, riveting. Even better than The Apprentice.
Its up to the republican senators now. Will they vote to take away the power of congress as a check on the executive - for this guy who has dictatorial aspirations and for every future president too?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:22 pm

That's what the mainstream media tells us, anyway.

One man's "obstruction of Congress" is another man's "separation of powers."

We'll survive one term of Orange Head. My fear is that the Democrats are electing him to a second.

Ah well, it'll be over soon.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:08 pm

JimHow wrote:
One man's "obstruction of Congress" is another man's "separation of powers."

The Judiciary branch has weighed in on that one recently - in Judge Katanji Jackson Brown's opinion on whether McGahn must comply with a congressional subpoena. My prediction is the Supreme Court will refuse to take up the appeal.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:10 pm

Trump's popularity at an all time high.
He rakes in a cool $48 mil "because of the impeachment..."
Thanks House Dems and the Democratic left.
Can't wait for that huge wave in favor of conviction that we were all promised....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... li=BBnb7Kz

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:34 pm

The latest polls out this morning show an increase in public support for impeachment.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:13 pm

So Trump goes and starts a war. Nice deflection.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:04 pm

New polls published today:
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden — FOX News — Biden +5
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Sanders — FOX News — Sanders +4
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Warren — FOX News — Warren +2
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Buttigieg — FOX News — Buttigieg +1
Nevada: Trump vs. Biden — FOX News — Biden +8
Nevada: Trump vs. Sanders — FOX News — Sanders +5
Nevada: Trump vs. Warren — FOX News — Warren +1
Nevada: Trump vs. Buttigieg — FOX News — Buttigieg +1

Hope springs eternal.

Here’s an essential, immutable fact: if Trump loses Wisconsin, he’s losing the White House.

If Trump wins Wisconsin, he could still lose (most likely by AZ flipping blue), but he’ll be hard to beat.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:09 am

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:19 pm

Lost in the excitement of the coming wave of votes to convict and remove the President this week is the Iowa caucus.
Feel the Bern?

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:24 pm

Even though I don't agree with him, I thought Paul Krugman's op-ed on the differences between Warren, Sanders and Biden if elected was a balanced note. Worth digging up if anyone still keeps a NYT subscription to use as birdcage liner.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:51 pm

I have my $15 automatically deducted to support the online failing New York Times.
But I refuse to click the links to the Krugman and Friedman frauds.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:19 pm

I read Krugman's piece. He basically wants me to vote for candidates I disagree with because they will be incapable of implementing their agenda anyways?

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:22 pm

Counselor JimHow: I think you would like PK's note this time. He basically observes that if any of those candidates become POTUS the practical policy making would all end up at the same place. No M4A, no Venezuelan style nationalizations, etc. Whether true or not, who knows, but it was a sensible piece. And of course I've long been a non fan of Dr. Krugman, ever since he was my faculty adviser during my formative years.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:38 pm

My predictions:

Warren-dies in office of old age.
Sanders-dies in office of old age.
Biden-dies in office of old age.
Trump-retires in 2025 from being POTUS and tries to become a TV star. Fails miserably, but claims he was the best of all time. (Only the good die young.)

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:50 pm

JimHow wrote:Lost in the excitement of the coming wave of votes to convict and remove the President this week is the Iowa caucus.
Feel the Bern?

A terrible shame. Life-long voter for normal Democratic candidates. Sanders will the death of the party as we know it. Warren will result is a landslide loss to Trump. AOC will cause many moderate Dems and business-folk like me to leave. I will not vote for a single one, not even against Trump. I’ll just sit out.

One does not combat extremism (trump) with one’s own extremism. FL Dems lost the Governor seat recently by that approach. Steady moderation can carry the day. This should be a winnable election, but sadly, the party is posturing for a major ideological shift that will not win. At least not right now. I do fear that the AOC types will eventually gain control, it’s the new generation and their wave of thinking. By then I am cashed out and immune to their socialist agenda, with all attendant taxes, personal and corporate, give-aways and other policies that will crush our economy.

God, I sound like a stinkin Republican.

johnz · Post by **johnz** » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:38 am

If Sanders is headed to winning a plurality or majority of delegates and the DNC takes it from him again through superdelegates or rules changes or other dirty tactics, the Democratic Party will absolutely be destroyed as it will destroy the idealism and political engagement of the young people who overwhelming back Sanders. AND It will be clear, I hope and think, to those very good people, once and for all, that they can never get what they want and what has often been promised from the Democratic Party.

--Gary Rust

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:37 pm

I know us foreigners should not take so much pleasure in watching this never-ending comedy from afar, but we just can't help it!!!!
the only downer I can see is that, after all these months of insanity and mayhem giving us Aussies constant belly-laughs, we are running out of pop-corn!!!

Seriously, even the most die-hard Republicans must be getting bored of this lunatic.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:46 pm

Lol. Pretty amazing, huh? And you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Wait til the fall. This is going to be amazing.