President Trump

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:17 pm

The outbreak in Italy is even more dangerous than Iran, with the mechanics of the EU allowing free travel across all of Western Europe, it is only a matter of 4-5 weeks before there will be over 100,000 cases there.

I have stated this before, my wife's family are from WuHan, many of them got out when the whistle-blower spread the information (which was what the provincial government was desperately trying to stop so they could lock-down the province before people escaped.... hence the angst towards the doctor) and are staying in my apartment in Shenzhen. Those that remained have now all had the disease and all six have recovered. However, two of my wife's cousins friends, both in their 30's and perfectly healthy, have died.

The two really interesting facts about this virus, not seen before, is (1) it has virtually no effect on children under the age of seven, who therefore become innocent and dangerous carriers of the disease and (2) it causes total pulmonary failure, and death, in young healthy individuals quite randomly (although, thankfully, quite rarely)

Every government has every right to be extremely cautious with this virus, it's disease pattern and severity are poorly understood, and it may be far more dangerous than we currently think. I suspect Europe and the USA will go into a loose lock-down over the next week or two, making travel and public gatherings quite difficult.

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:06 pm

"We are having chaos in supermarkets due to hoarding, and people fighting each other in pharmacies for masks, sanitiser and disinfectants. None of those three have shown to be effective on the virus by the way"

either the "author" of the above knows something that every infectious diseases specialist in the World does not, or that statement is utter crap, or nonsense if you would prefer to coin a more polite word.

MBA/Medicare have just sent every registered doctor in Australia an email advising them to use the precaution of wearing a face mask with eye protection when examining every febrile patient, and to use alcohol-based hand wash after each and every patient consultation. I am considering writing to them and telling them there is no need because Claudius2 says it makes no difference lol.
Might be that the term "crap" was waaaaaay too lenient.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:54 am

Wow. Joe was dead a week ago.
Now he may be the next president.
Man. What a country!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:40 am

Looks like Bernie is still in a pretty strong position.
A big problem for the Democratic Party establishment is that if they try to squeeze out The Bern like they did four years ago, The Bern supporters won't go along with them.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:10 am

Felix
You are completely distorting what I have said, and ignore the sources I provided, and argue with emotions and anecdotes.
It appears that you have given up any usage of data after entirely contradicting yourself regarding the effect on young people (which I had provided data on some time ago).
After arguing that it is killing lots of healthy young people, you now agree that such deaths are rare and that young children are not affected at all.

You must again have missed the comment I made to DavidG, that the virus isn't disappearing any time soon.
My argument has been for an end to panic and a rational approach to disease transmission and treatment.
You are quite wrong if you think I am dismissive of it.

World wide infections and deaths are mapped online in as close to real time by the Singaporean govt, and they even send out SMS's to update numbers during the day.
They show a slowing rate on infection as a whole despite evidence of the disease in Europe, Nth America, Africa and the Middle East.

In Singapore, there have been 108 cases, no deaths and most have recovered. The hoarding of supplies, literal fights at pharmacies and panic buying has now largely ended.
The panic buying existed despite the disease here being largely contained. I was only referring to Singapore.

In relation to masks, the US CDC and the local health authorities here are recommending the usage of N-95 masks. I actually have some but have not used them.
And to get N-95 masks, my wife ordered them from overseas as they were not available here at the time, and the disease was present in Singapore for some weeks before that.
The standard surgical masks do not offer nearly as much protection and some of the medical staff both in China and even in Singapore who contracted COVID-19 were actually wearing them.
You should be aware that standard surgical masks were designed to block larger particles (eg, sputum) rather than smaller particles including viruses of a diameter of about 0.3um.
Their initial historical usage was to stop the spread of tuberculosis.

Even N-95 masks are said by the CDC to offer no more than 95% protection.
After four mask wearing hospital staff got C-19 here, the govt health authorities had to urgently get in more effective masks.
The solution you mention from Australia recommends that more elaborate masks be worn including eye protection. I agree.
But that is NOT being practised widely.
Up until last Thursday, the local hospital here did not even have supplies of N-95 masks and two staff were in quarantine as they caught C-19 wearing such normal surgical masks.
Common surgical masks are only partly effective in controlling C-19 and realistically, that is not what they were designed for.

Similarly disinfectants and hand sanitisers are not designed for C-19 or viruses per se - they were designed to work on bacteria, though some are quite effective on viruses as they are on some parasites.
Those containing bleach and alcohol are of course more effective but my point was NOT that they are ineffective, but that they are, like masks, partly effective overall as a total group.
Again here in Singapore, the head of the health authority has been advising the public that sanitisers et al do not guarantee safety.
Further, due to having a reasonable number of Muslims here, most sanitisers here don't contain any alcohol - which includes the sanitisers that are commonly available at supermarkets.
The sanitisers and cleaning agents used in hospitals here are approved by health authorities for usage in medical settings and they contain compounds (chlorine, bleach etc) that are useful in disease control.
Yet the sanitisers on sale to the general public (and I have checked the labels) often do not contain effective agents or simply do not have enough.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:39 pm

JimHow wrote:Looks like Bernie is still in a pretty strong position.
A big problem for the Democratic Party establishment is that if they try to squeeze out The Bern like they did four years ago, The Bern supporters won't go along with them.

I suspect Sanders will surge in the voting today. Biden had a lot going for him in SC that isn’t applicable in many of the Super Tuesday states. We'll soon find out if SC was a one-off.

My worry is whether Sanders' supporters will undermine the nominee and stay home on Election Day even if he loses fair and square based on the rules in place at the time the primaries began. Sanders sounds more angry when he’s not winning, and that may make his supporters angry enough to stay home.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:45 pm

DavidG wrote:
JimHow wrote:Looks like Bernie is still in a pretty strong position.
A big problem for the Democratic Party establishment is that if they try to squeeze out The Bern like they did four years ago, The Bern supporters won't go along with them.
I suspect Sanders will surge in the voting today. Biden had a lot going for him in SC that isn’t applicable in many of the Super Tuesday states. We'll soon find out if SC was a one-off.

My worry is whether Sanders' supporters will undermine the nominee and stay home on Election Day even if he loses fair and square based on the rules in place at the time the primaries began. Sanders sounds more angry when he’s not winning, and that may make his supporters angry enough to stay home.

I think the party is largely coalescing now around Biden. The party establishment clearly sees Sanders will lead to a loss, and has policies and personal foibles that simply will not sell in the general election. Klobuchar and Buttigieg were being the good soldiers and bowing out now. They did not have to do that. You know there was behind the scenes arm-twisting and promises being made to get them out and behind Biden. Steyer out helps him and Bloomberg, too. I do not think Sanders pulls this off. I hope he does not pull this off. Biden is not the best choice, but he may be the best we have for maintenance of very successful Obama policies, return to market normalcy and a victory over the monster in office.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:12 pm

Robert, I agree that the party is coalescing around Biden. But did it happen early enough? Are the voters shifting to Biden along with the party establishment? A brokered convention would be very damaging to Biden's chances in November since I think Sanders' supporters would stay home.

OTOH, Sanders as nominee would be a very easy target for Trump and the Rs in the general election. People like you would stay home because of Sanders' socialist leanings. I’m less worried about his politics (he’d never get his policies through Congress anyway) than I am about another 4 years of Trump.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:46 pm

Ah, it's never as simple as that.
Just last week everyone (not me) was fretting because the Dems were shooting themselves in a "circular firing squad."
Now they are all friends.
This is the way it ALWAYS works out, in primaries on either side.
It gets nasty at the end, but once there is a winner they coalesce.
And in the end people would vote for Bernie, just like those of us who held their nose and voted for Hillary in 2016.
The primaries are a distant memory by election day.
Heck, in today's world a week before is a distant memory.
I'm still amazed at the aparent spectacular comeback by Joe in the span of like 3 days.
He was dead as a door knob just last week.
He didn't just win South Carolina. He smoked them.
If the feeling is that Joe wins fair and square, I don't see problems from the Bernie camp.
Heck, Bernie campaigned for Hillary after she got the nomination, and that process was rotten to the core.
If there are shenanigans like last time, the Bernie Bros / AOC crowd may stay at home or, worse, cause mischief.
We should know more after tonight where we stand.
Saw Bloomberg on CNN last night. He sounded strong. The unfortunate thing for him is that it takes a good six months to find your voice in these campaigns. You can't just jump into a debate at the last minute and expect to be as articulate on the issues as those who have been campaigning for the last three years. Too little, too late for Mike.

johnz · Post by **johnz** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:30 pm

Surely it’s clear to everybody by now that the Democratic Party establishment would rather lose to Trump than nominate Bernie Sanders. They believe they have more to lose from Bernie than Trump, and they are correct. It should also be evident that Joe Biden cannot string two sentences together in a debate, and Trump will trounce him. One way or the other, the corrupt Democratic DC establishment is finished whether they screw Bernie Sanders again or not. Bernie and his supporters are shining a very bright light on the stink of Party corruption, and it will be clear to most of the electorate that they will never get what they want and deserve from Democrats.

--Gary Rust

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:41 pm

johnz wrote:Surely it’s clear to everybody by now that the Democratic Party establishment would rather lose to Trump than nominate Bernie Sanders. They believe they have more to lose from Bernie than Trump, and they are correct. It should also be evident that Joe Biden cannot string two sentences together in a debate, and Trump will trounce him. One way or the other, the corrupt Democratic DC establishment is finished whether they screw Bernie Sanders again or not. Bernie and his supporters are shining a very bright light on the stink of Party corruption, and it will be clear to most of the electorate that they will never get what they want and deserve from Democrats.

--Gary Rust

yep, +1

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:24 pm

marcs wrote:
johnz wrote:Surely it’s clear to everybody by now that the Democratic Party establishment would rather lose to Trump than nominate Bernie Sanders. They believe they have more to lose from Bernie than Trump, and they are correct. It should also be evident that Joe Biden cannot string two sentences together in a debate, and Trump will trounce him. One way or the other, the corrupt Democratic DC establishment is finished whether they screw Bernie Sanders again or not. Bernie and his supporters are shining a very bright light on the stink of Party corruption, and it will be clear to most of the electorate that they will never get what they want and deserve from Democrats.

--Gary Rust
yep, +1

LOL, sure. Curious if you really believe the bolded or are using hyperbole.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:29 pm

How utterly depressing

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:02 pm

I'm actually happy with the four remaining major Democratic candidates: The Bern, Joe, Liz, Mike.
It'll be tough but I think any one of them could beat Orange Head under the right circumstances.

Pete was starting to get on my nerves and as for Amy, I don't vote for prosecutors.

Amy is clearly setting up to be Veep.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:03 pm

I think Joe needs to wear glasses. He looks strange and dementia-ridden.
Did he have plastic surgery done in the past four years?

felixp21 · Post by **felixp21** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:08 pm

Claudius2
no, I'm not distorting any of the rubbish you spout.

out of interest, all the headlines in the Australian press this morning show the Dept of Health figures sent to us doctors 48 hours ago.... nothing is confidential these days.
This virus is expected to kill between 32 and 68 million people World-Wide in the next 18 months.
Not sure what else needs to be said about this "simple bug"

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:43 pm

felixp21 wrote:Claudius2
no, I'm not distorting any of the rubbish you spout.

out of interest, all the headlines in the Australian press this morning show the Dept of Health figures sent to us doctors 48 hours ago.... nothing is confidential these days.
This virus is expected to kill between 32 and 68 million people World-Wide in the next 18 months.
Not sure what else needs to be said about this "simple bug"

32 to 68 million...Wow...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:44 pm

Heavy turnout at the polls today in Lewiston.
I voted for The Bern.
But I'm happy to see Joe rebounding, I'll work for either of them if they win the nomination, unless Donna Brazile and the party hacks steal the nomination away from Bernard Sanders.
I'm suddenly feeling a little optimistic about the Democrats.

32 to 68 million... Wow!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:15 pm

felix21, what is your source for

This virus is expected to kill between 32 and 68 million people World-Wide in the next 18 months?

Last fall a researcher at Johns Hopkins ran a simulation and concluded that a viral pandemic could kill 65 million people in 18 months. This was before the outbreak in China but maybe the researcher was hypothesizing a bad strain of coronavirus.

Apparently a health expert in Australia predicted that every Australian would eventually get Covid-19. If everyone in the world contracts Covid-19 and the death rate is around .9% you would end up with around 68 million dead.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:50 am

Jesus, Uncle Joe crushing it in the early numbers.
Am I like the only one who is not absolutely flabbergasted by what is happening here?
Less than a week ago Joe Biden had like NO money, was on life support.
He had like one un-staffed office in California.
He was D. E. A. D.

And then came South Carolina, and the astounding African-American support.

After tonight, I put him in as the odds on favorite to win the presidency in 2020!

This is some crazy shit, yo!

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 am

Ha, just dropped my ballot and spouse’s at the polling station...

Why are you flabbergasted Jim?

Now it looks like Uncle Joe vs Bernie...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:59 am

I truly thought Joe was DEAD last week, when he was coming in like 5th place everywhere and was out of money.
Then he won a small southern state....

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:04 am

Didn’t vote in the primary, but looks like CA will go to Bernie. But interesting to see how Uncle Joe will fare in CA...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:07 am

This is truly amazing stuff.
Bernie was a runaway a few days, heck, hours, ago.
South Carolina has made Joe Biden the Comeback Kid!

Trust me, this is amazing.
What a fucking country, that something like this can happen.

I voted for The Bern today, but I'll be more than happy if Uncle Joe is the nominee.

Bloomberg and Liz will "suspend" their campaigns by noon tomorrow.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:11 am

Joe or Bernie. It doesn’t matter. 2020 Presidential election is for dems to lose depending on the democrats turnout...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:14 am

We'll have to see the numbers after tonight, but the thing that is striking me here is that there is an underlying African American presence that seems to be making a statement. I would guess Bernie will win CA and TX, but I think this is a BIG night for Uncle Joe. This is a historic night.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:17 am

We are going to be seeing a lot of Barack and Michelle in the next six months.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:28 am

Hmmm... The great state of Maine is gonna go to Uncle Joe? And Warren is gonna lose her home state? I think she needs to pack up tonight...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:30 am

Biden winning in both Mass. and Maine. That is stunning!!!

Incredible!

I truly don't know if people are grasping the magnitude of what is happening tonight.

This is like the biggest political comeback since Truman!

Holy shit.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:31 am

honest to goodness, this is so bad I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie concedes in the not too distant future!

This is Buster Douglass vs. Mike Tyson, Rocky Balboa vs. Apollo Creed.

And so we wait...

What will Kalifornia bring us!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:32 am

Joe winning in Dallas. OMG.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:36 am

Bloomberg’s money afterall bought some votes I guess... Most likely uncle Joe got screwed by Bloomberg...

Dallas, Houston, etc. Uncle Joe will do good as there is some sizable AA population and AA population is overwhelmingly supporting Uncle Joe

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:38 am

JimHow wrote:honest to goodness, this is so bad I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie concedes in the not too distant future!

This is Buster Douglass vs. Mike Tyson, Rocky Balboa vs. Apollo Creed.

And so we wait...

What will Kalifornia bring us!

Afraid not, Jim. Bernie will do well in TX and CA where the bulk of delegates are ....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:39 am

CV, Bloomberg is a nonfactor.
The astounding story tonight is the Super Tuesday sweep of Uncle Joe Biden... a man who, truly, had like no pulse 72 hours ago.
I am absolutely stunned -- and exhiliarated -- by what is happening tonight.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:40 am

Afraid not, Jim. Bernie will do well in TX and CA where the bulk of delegates are ....

Don't be so sure, CV.
I am in shock that Joe won ME and MA.

Bernie has a ceiling and he can't get above it.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:46 am

JimHow wrote:CV, Bloomberg is a nonfactor.
The astounding story tonight is the Super Tuesday sweep of Uncle Joe Biden... a man who, truly, had like no pulse 72 hours ago.
I am absolutely stunned -- and exhiliarated -- by what is happening tonight.

I am not sure Jim. If Bloomberg isn’t in the fray, I presume his votes in states where he is viable now (states like Ok, TN, ME, MA so far) would have gone mostly to uncle joe. That would have looked even worse for Bernie...

But if Biden loses TX and CA, but very close behind Bernie, then it’s fight to the finish....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:50 am

I disagree.
I don't think Bloomberg ended up hurting Biden, Joe is winning all those close states.
We'll see what the next three hours bring in TX and CA, but I think you are going to be surprised.
a fight to the finish?
I don't see how Bernie gets to the finish line.
At best he is a player at the convention, keeping the AOCs and Bernie Bros in line.
In other words, 2016 all over again.
Except this time I don't think Joe has the negatives of Hillary, and I suspect Joe will campaign in WI, PA, MI.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:50 am

JimHow wrote: .
.
.

Bernie has a ceiling and he can't get above it.

You wrote my line, Jim....

If uncle Joe is winning on the strengths of AA and middle class or blue collar votes then it’s a good sign for dems turnout, come November...

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:53 am

Here in CA, I don’t see Biden enthusiasm, Jim... I see Bernie bumper stickers though...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:54 am

What is happening tonight is nothing short of shocking in epic proportions.
I'm telling you, we haven't seen anything like this in 70 years.