President Trump

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:19 am

First 15 minutes: Kamala!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:21 am

Pence is crashing and burning, no?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:35 am

I find myself looking more at her than him, probably a good thing.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:08 am

Why is Pence always getting the first question????

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:10 am

She sucked in the second half, hopefully people fell asleep by then.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:16 am

Guys: Kamala Harris is a lightweight.

There were so many opportunities to crush this guy tonight, she didn't capitalize.

And who the fuck is this pathetic moderator?

Hopefully, the Amrican public fell asleep after the first half.

Hopefully, she didn't hurt the campaign too much tonight.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:43 am

I thought Pence won the debate pretty handily.

Harris is a lightweight. She came out strong but faded in the second half. Hopefully this doesn't move the dynamics of the race.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:08 am

I don’t agree at all. She was far more composed, authentic and made more substantive points. Plus, she stayed within the rules of the debate and actually answered the questions posed. This was her big introduction to the Country, Pence is already a known quantum. She did not want to look like him, someone that constantly over-spoke, dodged questions and interrupted from time to time. She came across as a smart lady and total class act.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:36 am

Yes, I think she at least didn’t hurt the cause, which is what we needed.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:25 pm

You can make the case either way, but probably, this debate was a draw. Both appealed to their respective bases; neither really made any knock-out punches. Yea, she missed some solid shots, the “packing the court” comment from Pence was insane and could have been taken down hard. But, she looked so damn good on her issues. He comes across as creepy and disingenuous, but yea, I’m biased.

Ultimately as a draw, it is a big LOSS for Trump-Pence as they are bleeding from every orifice. He did nothing to change the blood-letting.

As a funny side note, the fly made quite an impression. Poor Pence, it really makes him the butt of just about every joke today, the memes floating around are hysterical, and some - like the fly/satan reference - are quite searing. Not good for Pence, never good to be the butt.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:29 pm

what women saw was the Male vp candidate disrespecting two women.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:37 pm

You guys will get no argument from me, as I’ve said before, I’d rather have Orange in there than that creep.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:48 pm

Guys
I really tried hard to watch the debate but it was so cringeworthy that I just could not do it.
Chris
I thought everyone disrespected everyone else and frankly gender had nothing to do with it.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:04 pm

Claudius2 wrote:Guys
I really tried hard to watch the debate but it was so cringeworthy that I just could not do it.
Chris
I thought everyone disrespected everyone else and frankly gender had nothing to do with it.

How was Susan Page disrespectful Mark? If anything, she should have come down much harder on Mike Pence.
Kamala Harris was forthright in calling out the Trump administration's incompetence, and danger to the American people, but I didn't hear her being repeatedly disrespectful of Mike Pence. She interrupted him only once or twice, and spoke past her cutoff point far less than he did.
He came across as a bully, a Mini-me of Trump.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:31 pm

So now Trump won't participate in a remote debate. What should Biden do?

Phil David · Post by **Phil David** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:50 pm

At this point it looks as though Biden needs only to stay alive. Trump will do the rest for him.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:53 pm

With 25 days to go, and Mr. Trump behind, i guess the best is to come!

Now we will see how politic can be dirty, irrespectful, vicious... i hope that Mr. Biden (or other big Democrats) doesn't have a small "squelette dans son placard"...

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:52 pm

Espérons qu'il n'a attrapé aucune chatte.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:23 pm

Racer Chris wrote:
Claudius2 wrote:Guys
I really tried hard to watch the debate but it was so cringeworthy that I just could not do it.
Chris
I thought everyone disrespected everyone else and frankly gender had nothing to do with it.
How was Susan Page disrespectful Mark? If anything, she should have come down much harder on Mike Pence.
Kamala Harris was forthright in calling out the Trump administration's incompetence, and danger to the American people, but I didn't hear her being repeatedly disrespectful of Mike Pence. She interrupted him only once or twice, and spoke past her cutoff point far less than he did.
He came across as a bully, a Mini-me of Trump.

100%.

He was gross. So out of touch with 2020 and simple notions of civility. Can’t imagine that his creepiness, and the way he acted - not to mention Trump himself - that they lose more and more women voters. My wife is pretty centrist, Trump on Covid pretty much was the nail in the coffin from her perspective, but then Pence creeped her out.

tim · Post by **tim** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:54 pm

Pence's best moment was when he was respectful, and congratulated Harris. Things went downhill to the point when he gave the "best of Trump conspiracy theories" answer.

As for the fly, my favorite quip: "If it laid eggs in his hair, he's required to carry them to term. His rules, not mine."

gene m. · Post by **gene m.** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:58 am

tim wrote: As for the fly, my favorite quip: "If it laid eggs in his hair, he's required to carry them to term. His rules, not mine."

More irony:
The antibody cocktail that President Trump received for his COVID-19 infection and touted on Wednesday evening as a "cure" for the deadly virus was developed using cells derived from aborted fetal tissue, a practice the White House and anti-abortion rights groups oppose.

"I think this was a blessing from God that I caught [the virus], I think it was a blessing in disguise," Mr. Trump said in the video. "I caught it, I heard about this drug, I said, 'Let me take it' … and it was incredible the way it worked."But the way in which the antibody cocktail was developed is at odds with the Trump administration's position on stem cell research. The drug's potency was tested in a lab using HEK 293T cells, a cell line originally derived from the kidney tissue of a fetus aborted in the Netherlands in the 1970s, said a spokesperson for Regeneron in an email to CBS News on Thursday. The cells "were used in testing the antibody candidates' ability to neutralize the virus" and helped researchers "determine the 'best' two antibodies, which now make up the REGN-COV2 cocktail," the spokesperson said.

There is no fetal tissue present in the final product. (just the cell line they were derived from)

Trump also stated"... he wants everyone to get what he's got....." he's done a good job turning the whole house into a plague zone , getting the entire Conway household infected, knocking out the joints chief/Pentagon and blocking all attempts to do proper contact tracing.

For all you pro bono lawyers.... there is a decent case on the upcoming wrongful deaths and bio terror/threats to individual and national well-being. Deputy U.S. Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen suggested in a memo to law enforcement personnel, alerting them that that people who intentionally spread the coronavirus could face criminal charges under federal terrorism laws because the coronavirus "appears to meet the statutory definition of a 'biological agent.'" Let's see what Pelosi's House cooks up tomorrow on the 25th amendment...

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:46 am

Chris/Robert
I think you have over-reacted to what I said and seem to misunderstand my comment. And my comments were not specific to any comment or argument.
There were actually two points I made.
The first is that these debates (incl Biden vs Trump) are for me, very hard to watch as they are based far too much on personality and vitriol.
My view is that they just end up showing the worst aspects of the candidates, and often little more.
I have to say I found Kamala Harris to be arrogant and deceptive. And I found Pence to be vague and anecdotal most of the time.
And I am also sick of the endless arguing over Covid-19. Can we just deal with that as a health crisis and not a political scandal?
And I thought it was tacky that Harris says that if Trump recommended a vaccine, she'd avoid it. I never knew that Trump was a microbiologist or virologist.
And yes, Trump DOES say stupid things about it, but any vaccine will be developed by a pharma company and at least in the USA, they do follow safety and efficacy protocols and run proper clinical trials.
As the debate went on, Harris seemed to be getting more irritated and quite frankly, nasty, so Pence played on that at times - which is a typical political ruse at the best of times.

But my main point it that irrespective of your identity - race, colour, gender, age, background, whatever - if you are running for public office, you better be prepared to put up with a lot of shit thrown at you.
Nobody entering politics should have a free pass or get preferential treatment. And if you expect the opposition to show respect in a debate like that, I'd say good luck to you.
And in the country I live, I don't to vote and in my country of origin, I don't get to vote either.
So I am watching largely from the sidelines and seriously, it is not either fun or enlightening to watch.

I will agree that the last moderator was a lot better than Chris Wallace - though I really don't think that the bar was set too high after him.
But my main point is that Pence and Harris should both be a bit more respectful AND stop with the endless personal nitpicking and slogans.

I really don't expect any bunch of competing politicians to show respect to each other.
If I sound flippant it is only as politics is to my mind far too often based on personal matters, what they did or said in high school, and not on policy, performance and underlying values.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:14 am

Nah, Claudius, these are not merely just “stupid comments” from our president.
They are racist, fascist comments. They undermine our democracy by falsely undermining the integrity of the election.
He’s now calling for the political prosecution of his political “enemies.”
He has presided over a pandemic that, by any measure, has been a national failure.
There are more Covid cases in the White House than in all of Taiwan.
He has helped spread crazy conspiracy theories through groups like QAnon.
He has basically called for violence against his enemies. The governor of Michigan was about to be kudnapped.

No, comparing the faults of Biden/Harris to what exists on the other side is a false equivalency.

I have been saying for at least a year that we are at risk of political assassinations. Who knows where this Michigan thing would have gone. Who knows what is coming in the coming weeks. We are in an extremely vulnerable time.

There is no rational defense for Orange Head’s behavior, and, no, it’s not a matter of merely dismissing it as “oh, he just says stupid things, let’s just move on.” The country is inthd grips of an unbalanced fascist. Very perilous Times here.

Antoine · Post by **Antoine** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:35 pm

"But any vaccine will be developed by a pharma company and at least in the USA, they do follow safety and efficacy protocols and run proper clinical trials."

Like the Aviation for Boeing?
Note Trump has totally emasculated the FDA and we are yet to see the consequences... Moral very low and management...I will abstain on this... but do not be surprised if the s..t hits the fan...

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:52 pm

: 7948ACB1-8211-4F2F-8374-1EE1C2A77296.jpeg (59.06 KiB) Viewed 913 times

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:45 pm

Jim
My reference to the stupid things Trump says was specific to COVID-19 and he really is not helping.
I don’t know who he takes advice from but he keeps putting his foot in his mouth. The case of the virus he got was apparently not serious and that is in fact quite common over here and we’ve had very few deaths and the lowest death rate in the world. Clearly Boris in London must have had a much worse experience.

Having said that I am not a supporter of any US politician - never have been since arguably JFK.

In terms of violence the local media has repeatedly shown the arson, personal violence, looting, property damage and other rioting behavior in recent months and I have to say the lack of action by many provincial govts there is very concerning. I never support the use of violence and am wondering why there had been so little action taken to bring it to an end.

It is a pity that the globe - not just the US - is so divided. Here in Singapore I have to say that there is much more concern about China than the US with China seeking to assert more control over the region including the seas. Trump is largely seen as a bit of a distraction.

Hm$(still) · Post by **Hm$(still)** » Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:02 pm

The fly made its appearance because it is Pence’s one black friend.

Hm$

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:04 am

That poor fly.

Can Nancy Pelosi please disappear until after Election Day? This race remains agonizingly close in the swing states, Joe is behind where Clinton was 4 years ago in PA, MI, and WI.

I think Suzie Collins is going to pull it out up here in Maine, and I think Orange Head is going to get his one electoral vote out of the second CD. All my neighbors are voting for Trump. Except for my family and my lawyer buddies, everyone I know is voting Trump. Even after a disastrous week for Orange, he is still way too close in the swing states with 3+ weeks to go, plus I think the worst of the voter suppression efforts is yet to come.

My most recent HQ and electoral college scores:

How Quotient:

HQ = 51

Electoral College Projection:

268 - 270

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:56 am

Yeah, voter suppression and legal wrangling over ballots in states with R governors has me very worried.

The VP debate seemed about a draw for me, each side had pluses and minuses, though I guess a number of polls said she won. I still don’t think the VP candidate moves the needle much, even with septuagenarians at the top of the ticket, unless one is clearly offensive.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:17 am

I voted last week, the day after my ballot came in the mail.
I wonder what it's like for other BWEers?
Are the Floridians having any trouble voting?
How about Harry in PA, Jon in MI, etc.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:59 am

Lucie got her mail ballot a week ago. I am still waiting for mine.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:39 am

The problem for us is that Republicans control the state legislatures in key states like PA, FL, MI, and WI, and will have heavy influence on voter suppression. And the federal courts, which have become heavily Republican, will enable them. These are areas where the Democrats fell asleep at the switch over the past two decades, state legislatures and court appointments. I blame the Democratic leadership and even Obama for that having been allowed to happen. The Republicans are a hundred times more energized to vote in this election. They have exponentially more boots on the ground. How did the Democrats and the Biden campaign allow this to happen? Why aren’t we talking about our own Democratic “poll watchers”? It’s like nothing ever changes. The Republicans are ruthless, the Democrats are soft. You’d think we’d have learned our lesson four years ago. Now we are about to pay the piper. Again.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:04 pm

This is a fascinating podcast from working class Pennsylvania - highly recommended

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/t ... 0494146324

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:13 pm

I’m voting live in Florida, I always like the energy of voting day and seeing democracy in action. Also means one less mail-in ballot for the Monster to contest or squash. You all should definitely fear who is in power in Florida. Utterly ruthless power base.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:17 pm

Early voting in Sarasota starts October 19, we intend to go vote in person then. If there are any issues, I filled out my ballot and will mail it in otherwise.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:30 pm

JimHow wrote: I blame the Democratic leadership and even Obama for that having been allowed to happen.

When Obama became President, Mitch McConnell used the filibuster to prevent nearly all of his cabinet and court appointments from going thru the Senate. Harry Reid changed the Senate rules to eliminate the filibuster on circuit court and cabinet appointments so Obama could get something done. When Trump took over, McConnell changed the rules of the Senate to remove the Supreme Court nominee Filibuster. I blame Mitch McConnell.

JimHow wrote: The Republicans are a hundred times more energized to vote in this election.

Totally false. Trump has done an excellent job of energizing his opposition.

JimHow wrote: They have exponentially more boots on the ground.

Exponentially? - false. Democrats have more people making phone calls. There is no Republican advantage in local outreach.

I will vote in person on Nov 3rd. There is only one location in our small town, and the line is never more than about 20 people. The polling location has been moved to allow good functionality without compromising social distance requirements.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:37 pm

Op-Eds and blogs are talking of a landslide win for Biden.

From Tim Alberta in the Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ook-426599
From Andrew Sullivan in the Weekly Dish: https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/d ... -landslide

Maybe I'm in an echo chamber of Never Trumpers but conservatives in the WSJ don't sound very enthusiastic for Trump either:
Karl Rove ("Trump has little margin for error") and Peggy Noonan ("This is how a lot of Republican political professionals sound to me: ready for a jailbreak and afraid to dig a tunnel")

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:49 pm

I dropped off my ballot at a collection bin and received an email receipt the next day.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:09 pm

Reporting from Michigan (where we try to kidnap elected officials), Paula and I have received our mail-in ballots. However, we are contemplating voting in person to assure that our votes are not only counted, but that they show in the immediate results.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:11 pm

I dunno, guys, I'm still not feeling it. In fact, it's feeling like a repeat of 2016. I think this little video explains well the situation, Joe's numbers are actually worse than Hillary's at this point in the campaign:

https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari ... 3560389640

The latest Marquette University poll in Wisconsin has Joe up by 5 points... Exactly where Hillary was in the same poll going into the final weekend in 2016. Ten-point national poll margins mean nothing, he can win by 80% in NY, Mass., California, Maryland, etc., those margins mean nothing.

I read Peggy Noonan, too, but she's also inside the Beltway, and she thinks Mike Pence is keen. Ewwww. Honestly, Jacques, give me Orange Head a hundred times over that weirdo.

And I still say boots on the ground are a hundred times more important than telephone calls from out of state. The Maine second CD is awash in Trump signs, he is definitely going to snag this one electoral vote, so be sure to put that in your electoral map calculations.