President Trump

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:26 am

I’m going to bed.

I said a while back that we should brace ourselves, before this was over we would see things we never thought possible.
These are very scary times, my friends.
We are being subjected to an attempted coup.
Some ominous days ahead.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:09 pm

You know what is strange - I have not heard anything out of Pence in months. Normally a time like this, the #2 guy should be out there making all the threats/promises etc. What is going on with him? Is he ok?

Phil David · Post by **Phil David** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:27 pm

Quietly attempting to beat a path back to political respectability.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:52 pm

I wonder if he got COVID.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:03 pm

This is my take:

An election that didn’t work out as many had expected or hoped, but it looks highly likely that Trump will be leaving the White House in January – by force if necessary – unless he miraculously wins all four of the remaining states of Arizona, Nevada, Georgia and Pennsylvania. As more and more mail-in votes have been counted the election has slipped like fine white sand through his fingers. The fact that he is contesting it by making dark, unsubstantiated, allegations of fraud is true to form, well telegraphed and should surprise no-one. As we expected, the system has worked well and been resilient to his attempts to delegitimize the election.

While recounts are inevitable, they will make no difference – a hundred votes here or there in the context of margins of tens of thousands. Judges are dismissing Team Trump’s baseless legal challenges with embarrassing alacrity. Trump himself appears to be going through a Kubler-Ross grief syndrome now and still seems to be stuck in the anger and denial phases, so expect plenty more spleen-venting fury, but once his defeat is confirmed, this will embolden more of those Republicans who have been hiding under rocks to peel away from him, and pivot to the post-Trump era.

Close observers do not expect him to run in 2024, but instead to groom Don Jr. But there is far more mercurial young talent in the Republican Party. Trump will rail against disloyalty, but the Emperor is being de-clothed and he has to pivot to thinking about his exit strategy: about how so save his ass and those of his family and his businesses interests, as NY State prosecutors chomp at the bit. His alleged fantasies of forming a Trumpist rival to the Republican Party, if true, are exceedingly foolish because it would hand the next set of elections to a Democratic Party that isn’t exactly a well-oiled machine: note: Trump deserves all the credit for the remarkable discipline and unity of the Democratic Party in the run in to the election, which cannot possibly last.

The main winners from this election are the Congressional Republicans, who scored the double whammy of (almost certainly) holding on to the Senate (and winning seats in the House) and ridding themselves of the albatross of Donald Trump. Apart from Trump the main losers are of course the Congressional Democrats. Failure to win the Senate puts the kibosh on much of the Democrats’ legislative agenda and the recriminations are only just beginning. They can still technically win the Senate but in the special election run off in the Georgia Senate seats they have at best a 30% chance of winning and in the other run off a one-in-three chance, which means the chances of taking both are only 10%.

Hm$(still) · Post by **Hm$(still)** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:18 pm

I largely agree with Ian, with one exception. The biggest losers are the members of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Had Trump not killed 250K people and shown himself to be a intemperate monster, he would have secured nothing short of a landslide victory. This is a center-right country, and Democrats will have to pivot far more toward middle-class/rural/blue collar whites and minorities to stay competitive or make gains going forward. Catering to progressive ideals is a losing strategy in all but select areas of the country.

hm$

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:28 pm

I agree with you Howard maybe that did not come across in my post. My concern is that the recriminations will get out of control in the Dem party. I agree it is a centre right country and the accusations of socialism - the shit slinging - really stuck. I worry that the progressive wing of the Dems will go into denial. I also think one of the realities is that political correctness is becoming an albatross for the Dems.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:37 pm

Hm$(still) wrote:I largely agree with Ian, with one exception. The biggest losers are the members of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. Had Trump not killed 250K people and shown himself to be a intemperate monster, he would have secured nothing short of a landslide victory. This is a center-right country, and Democrats will have to pivot far more toward middle-class/rural/blue collar whites and minorities to stay competitive or make gains going forward. Catering to progressive ideals is a losing strategy in all but select areas of the country.

hm$

There's another winner today: Obviously I don't care for her one bit at all, but grudging respect to Stacey Abrams. She will be tough, dangerous foe for decades to come. What she did in the hell hole of Hotlanta....not easy at all.

This is like when the Braves started getting competitive.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:43 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote:I agree with you Howard maybe that did not come across in my post. My concern is that the recriminations will get out of control in the Dem party. I agree it is a centre right country and the accusations of socialism - the shit slinging - really stuck. I worry that the progressive wing of the Dems will go into denial. I also think one of the realities is that political correctness is becoming an albatross for the Dems.

Look at how AOC is treating Claire McCaskill. Sen McKaskill managed to serve what a dozen years maybe a couple of decades in a red state, as Democrat. Not particularly easy, and she had won tough elections. Her counsel should not be spat upon.

AOC wins a low turnout primary in an ironclad blue ward, and acts as if that makes her policy prescriptions from the salons of the UES valid across 'flyover country', and assails the former Senator, saying 'why should we take advice on winning elections from people who have lost'.

Of course, whether one is one the left or the right, in a seniority based committee system - the elected legislators who come from the safest districts - and never really have to defend themselves outside of a primary - end up being in Congress the longest and running the place! So I suppose one day it'll be Speaker AOC....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:49 am

I agree with you, AKR, 100%.
I come from Lewiston, Maine, and I can assure you it is easier to be an arch liberal Democrat in the Bronx than it is to be on Lisbon Street in Maine. And I can't even imagine the balancing act Claire McCaskill had to deal with in Kansas, I've been hearing her a lot on TV the last few days.

As much as I'm not a fan of the AOC woke crowd, they are not a molecule of the equivalency of the lunatics generated from the far right, who want to kidnap, try, and execute the governor of Michigan out on Lake Michigan, and, oh, by the way, have an additional hit list that includes the governor of Maine, Janet Mills.

As for Stacey Abrams... Man, I am in awe of that woman. I think a statue should be erected. I have felt for that woman ever since she was blatantly deprived of the governorship of Georgia. It is one of the beautiful ironies that this fascist pig is going down, drip by drip, day by day, Chinese torture style, as the Black votes come in in Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee, and the sweetest of them all, Atlanta, including John Lewis's district. Oh man, this is sweet. Can you imagine what kind of beautiful torture he is going through right now.

No mercy.

Lock this racist pig up.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:42 am

JimHow wrote:This dude needs to be blue-papered.

Had to Google that one. When I rotated through psych as a med student in NY, the term was 2-PCd. Two physicians had to sign a form for involuntary commitment, thus a two-physician certificate or 2-PC.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:23 am

Ha that's what we call the involuntary psychiatric commitment process here in Maine.

Watched Fox this evening for the first time post-election day. The crazies seem tired and resigned. I gotta say, and I've said this before -- the Fox News room has been very fair! I heard nothing from the Fox reporting that I thought was significantly inaccurate. The crazies are the crazies, of course, but their heart just didn't seem in it.

I remain amazed at how relatively peaceful and uneventful this vote count has been, other than the two tantrums from Orange. Joe's speech was very weak tonight, I think he should just shut up until the inevitable occurs, hopefully tomorrow: victories in PA, GA, NV, and AZ.

When that happens, this will be over.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:27 pm

NBC calls it!

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:28 pm

CNN finally calls it, Joe has done it! President elect Biden! Is it too early in the day to pop a bottle of Champagne?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:29 pm

...and CNN!

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:29 pm

A collective sigh of relief, finally. It's now a cleanup operation.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:32 pm

It feels really good.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:34 pm

Good guys sometimes still win...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:41 pm

FOX CALLS IT!!!!!

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:53 pm

I was just going to mention that, lol!

Here's a question, does Trump bother to show up to Biden's inauguration or will he just hide in his bunker at Mar A Lago?

William P · Post by **William P** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:54 pm

Finally!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:55 pm

Herr Trump has just issued an unhinged statement vowing to fight on.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:10 pm

And where was trump? On the golf course of course. Now to the champagne selection for tonight.

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:21 pm

I believe he has no illusion of overturning the outcome but this is all a calculated move to help him cement his base and their loyalty and adulation of him. They're a drug for him and it's probably the only thing that will allow him to keep his ego. He may also see it as bargaining chip to avoid future Federal prosecution. The State of New York is finally going to get his tax returns and they will move to nail his ass to the wall.

On a sober note, going forward I do see his collective inner circle as a formidable threat to the country in the near term future. It's like a sequel to a Batman movie where the villains like Steve Bannon, Mike Flynn, and Steven Miller are banished from Gotham only to regroup and come back to fight again. The fascist fringe will continue to fuel the right.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:25 pm

Good news that the USA have now a winning President to that election!

My first recommandation: get stefan (specialist in mathematics) to do the vote count in the strategic States next time, to improve rapidity/accuracy and reduce the waiting time to know the winner. Gosh, i can't believe it has been 3.5 days since the voting day! It is a bit of a small embarassement for a great country like the USA.

Look at China or North Corea (two other great countries), they are so efficient that you know who's winning before the people are voting!

Nic

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:32 pm

Now we can see why Jim consistently refused to bet with me on the outcome of this election.

At least I did win $500 on Predictit -- unfortunately they sharply limit the size of the bets you can make.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:19 pm

I made a $100 bet with one of my lawyer buddies Coley Coyne back in 2017.
I very happily paid it off yesterday....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:27 pm

I gotta say it again, I think Fox News has been very fair in its coverage.
Great moment just now with Donna Brazile.
As with the WSJ, the opinion people and the news people are night and day.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:28 pm

Chris Wallace skewering Trump and Guilliani.

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:34 pm

A lot of establishment Republicans are very happy with how things are going. Biden + R Senate + the Republican base furious and believing they were robbed is actually a very good scenario for them. That's a reason why Fox and WSJ etc. are not going to back Trump contesting this.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:49 pm

marcs wrote:A lot of establishment Republicans are very happy with how things are going. Biden + R Senate + the Republican base furious and believing they were robbed is actually a very good scenario for them. That's a reason why Fox and WSJ etc. are not going to back Trump contesting this.

yes, I don't think the natural state of affairs is for the House to be held by the dems nowadays. It's a bit of a fluke, and a couple of years from now they can claw back some of the 20-30 seats that were won by Dems in Trumpy districts.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:54 pm

Gerry M. wrote:I believe he has no illusion of overturning the outcome but this is all a calculated move to help him cement his base and their loyalty and adulation of him. They're a drug for him and it's probably the only thing that will allow him to keep his ego. He may also see it as bargaining chip to avoid future Federal prosecution. The State of New York is finally going to get his tax returns and they will move to nail his ass to the wall.

On a sober note, going forward I do see his collective inner circle as a formidable threat to the country in the near term future. It's like a sequel to a Batman movie where the villains like Steve Bannon, Mike Flynn, and Steven Miller are banished from Gotham only to regroup and come back to fight again. The fascist fringe will continue to fuel the right.

Flynn and Bannon are vaguely crooked, but Miller doesn't seem to have any corruption to him. He just advocates policies that some dislike. But I'd note Miller's proposed policies are pretty popular with others, including plenty of legal immigrants or minority communities. Maybe they won't be getting implemented via executive orders anymore, but the rationale / constituency for some rules on immigration hasn't vaporized over a Tuesday in November.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:12 pm

JimHow wrote: As much as I'm not a fan of the AOC woke crowd, they are not a molecule of the equivalency of the lunatics generated from the far right, who want to kidnap, try, and execute the governor of Michigan out on Lake Michigan, and, oh, by the way, have an additional hit list that includes the governor of Maine, Janet Mills.

As for Stacey Abrams... Man, I am in awe of that woman. I think a statue should be erected. I have felt for that woman ever since she was blatantly deprived of the governorship of Georgia.

I don't think any one wants kidnappers/killers in their political tent. Hopefully they will be punished severely. Apparently the FBI has moles infiltrating many of these groups, so if they get organized its more likely they get caught. The real dangers are the 'lone wolves' like Timothy McVeigh types who can create havoc on their own. Maybe the Facebook or Reddit can figure out who is posting violent plans on the internet and start tracking/monitoring them. Or Google could figure out who is searching for bad stuff.

Abrams has earned some powerful chits she can start calling in. She is going to be to Trump like what Rosie O'Donnell was to Howard Stern* - a scourge that he will grouse about every time he gets near microphone.

* in a remarkable Road to Damascus moment, apparently Stern got therapy, realized he was 'projecting' his issues, and has warmly reconciled with Rosie now, claiming they are even genuine friends. Supposedly its been harder with his family, who wearies of him oversharing his problems, issues, etc. with them.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:24 pm

Jay Winton wrote:And where was trump? On the golf course of course. Now to the champagne selection for tonight.

I am about to pop the cork on a bottle of Gosset Grand Reserve

If Trumpy and his vulgar ersatz family go to prison I will open my best bottle of Cristal

marcs · Post by **marcs** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:50 pm

AKR wrote:
marcs wrote:A lot of establishment Republicans are very happy with how things are going. Biden + R Senate + the Republican base furious and believing they were robbed is actually a very good scenario for them. That's a reason why Fox and WSJ etc. are not going to back Trump contesting this.
yes, I don't think the natural state of affairs is for the House to be held by the dems nowadays. It's a bit of a fluke, and a couple of years from now they can claw back some of the 20-30 seats that were won by Dems in Trumpy districts.

Particularly since the Rs solidified their grip on state legislatures this week and will thus have control of apportionment this entire decade

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:32 pm

https://www.channel4.com/news/what-coul ... light-risk

The Yale professor says he is a flight risk, but surely the biggest issue is that he is a national security risk? Trump owes about a billion and a half dollars, money he probably doesn’t have - who knows his net worth could be zero or negative - so he can sell US state secrets to Putin and other adversaries of the United States? Surely there is a case for maximum intelligence surveillance of his communications from now on? This is a very dangerous time for America even though a lot of us are celebrating.

This deluded psychopath can do enormous damage to the country and to the world beyond pardoning criminals and cronies and appointing conservative judges. In some senses, with 75 days to Biden’s inauguration, this is the point of maximum danger? Or am I missing something?

SF Ed · Post by **SF Ed** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:51 pm

People are out celebrating in SF right now. You know what I see loads of that I haven't seen for a while in SF? American flags.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:40 pm

Except in 2004, Democrats have won the popular vote in every presidential election since 1988!...

In almost every election since 1992, far more votes were cast each cycle for Democratic Senators and Representatives than Republicans, with only re-districting and the anti-democratic nature of the Senate making it seem otherwise...

538 projects Biden to win the popular vote by at least 4.3% (and once the vote is all counted, it’s probably a 5-6% margin) and get 81.8 million votes to President Trump’s 74.9 million, with a total turnout of around 160 million. No candidate has ever received 70 million votes in an election, let alone 80 million...

I don’t see a center-right nation here. Not at all. In fact, if we had a normal, democratic system which reflected the direct will of the voters, I’d say we’re clearly a center-left nation.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:00 pm

The entire world puts forth a sigh of relief today with the confirmation of Joe Biden and hopefully Trump will get his wish and allow America to become great again. The celebrations today that I see on TV are reminiscent of that of the end of WWII with the cheering and flag waving continuing through the day. Nice to see some happiness for a change but with the covid numbrs at all time highs I'm a little concerned what will happen over the next a couple of weeks to months. With this limbo period that Ian mentions I'm not only concerned with what will happen with covid #s but the potential of Trump stirring up the muck before he leaves office...if he leaves??!! Congrats to everyone in the USA and this must be a great relief.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:34 pm

Michael Rappaport has some words for Orange Head:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cpcWMBlzZts