President Trump

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:15 pm

i mean, if he at least did drain the swamp, that would be something to cheer about despite all of the other horrible reasons why this is a disaster.
But no. Not only are there a million reasons why this is a disaster, on top of everything else he is not only not draining the swamp, he is bringing back the same cast of characters that have populated the swamp for the past thirty years. It's a double whammy.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:20 pm

On a slightly different tack, today my employee said he wants to know where Huma went.
So I asked what he meant.
He then told me about the "Life Insurance" folder in the Weiner laptop, and how the NYC police know all about the fact she has dirt on the Clinton's and she's been in hiding since the first Comey announcement.
This is the guy I put up with every day at work.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:51 pm

Just saw a tweet that Mike Pence is taking over the Transition leadership role from Christie.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:01 pm

And here we go.
Let the "Era of Mike Pence" begin.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:09 pm

It's sad that people who believe that a successful businessman will be a successful president. I fail to understand why people think that way. Why should business success translate into governing success? Business is for profit and the goals of business are different from the goals of government administration. Running a government is much different than even running a non-profit, let alone than a business.

I am prepared to wait and see, but the potential picks for the posts do not seem to match up with an effective administration. Like I said, a president is as good as the people who surround the president.

Rer · Post by **Rer** » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:10 pm

That is exactly why he won....look at the people surrounding Hillary. Just a rehash of Obama...more of the same...for better or worse, at least half of the country wants something different. It remains to be seen if it will be better...hard to imagine it will be worse

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:17 am

Chateau Vin wrote:It's sad that people who believe that a successful businessman will be a successful president. I fail to understand why people think that way. Why should business success translate into governing success? Business is for profit and the goals of business are different from the goals of government administration. Running a government is much different than even running a non-profit, let alone than a business.

I am prepared to wait and see, but the potential picks for the posts do not seem to match up with an effective administration. Like I said, a president is as good as the people who surround the president.

Another NYC billionaire in his first elected office did a pretty good job running the show when he got a chance.

You might remember Mike Bloomberg, who built a financial technology company.

He's also an ex smoker who went from 4 packs a day to zero, and now wants to take cigarette taxes from zero to $40.

Nothing like the zeal of the born again!

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:28 am

JimHow wrote:And here we go.
Let the "Era of Mike Pence" begin.

I would think you ought to prefer that to DJT.

Pence may endorse lots of policies you dislike, but he doesn't have crazy impulses, and is going to stay well within the bounds of conventional GOP governing.

Presumably Christie is out because of the newly convicted henchmen of his have turned states evidence against him, in a some attempt to lighten their sentence. I wouldn't think that someone who'd gone to a full trial would get that option? But maybe nailing Christie's hide to the wall is so tempting to DA/DOJ or whoever owns this pursuit that they are willing to try.

That would be great.

Christie was the first GOP collaborateur to sidle up to Trump before he's won the nomination, and as such needs special damnation.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:32 am

No, I fear Trump less than the guy who thinks you can "cure" homosexuality.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:56 am

JimHow wrote:…and brace yourself, CV, for a Sarah Palin cabinet appointment (EPA?).

I'm 45 with two kids, but I'd march on DC if something like this happens...

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:15 am

>>
It's sad that people who believe that a successful businessman will be a successful president. I fail to understand why people think that way. Why should business success translate into governing success? Business is for profit and the goals of business are different from the goals of government administration.
>>

CV, change the government references to educational references and you'll see the challenges that public universities face every day.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:36 am

stefan wrote:>>
It's sad that people who believe that a successful businessman will be a successful president. I fail to understand why people think that way. Why should business success translate into governing success? Business is for profit and the goals of business are different from the goals of government administration.
>>

CV, change the government references to educational references and you'll see the challenges that public universities face every day.

Yeah. Scott walker of Wisconsin knows how to gut the University of Wisconsin system and higher education. There was this one article I read a long time back where one of the brightest chemistry professors left UW system for Minnesota. Wisconsin is supposedly one of the best research institutions in chemistry. When asked, the prime reason he said was the government's cut of higher education funding to UW system.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:44 am

Blanquito wrote:
JimHow wrote:…and brace yourself, CV, for a Sarah Palin cabinet appointment (EPA?).
I'm 45 with two kids, but I'd march on DC if something like this happens...

Not to predict doom and gloom, but it's just the beginning. Within the next few months there will be administrative infighting. Factions of Trump kids, Trump campaign personnel, Trump republicans, Non Trump republicans in congress will all be bickering. Especially I suspect his staff will be at odds with Trump kids wielding power and influence over Trump and will boil over. You know, too many cooks spoil the broth...

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:47 am

I agree, CV. Cable news will never be more profitable.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:02 am

Trump is a product of the media. From NBC, which created the persona, to CNN, which employed his campaign chair. They are all culpable. Independent media in the US is dead. And I fear the US is going the way of Ancient Rome.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:28 am

Yes, but the orgies are strictly confined to Trump Tower.

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:22 pm

Trying to remain optimistic about appointments and agenda. So far not finding much reason for it. Still can't imagine Palin gets tapped for anything.....

Jim, I just don't think there are enough votes to be had to overturn Roe. Virtually all the Dems and enough of the GOP would oppose. Could make it out of the House maybe but it would only take a handful in the Senate. Even then, we're assuming Trump would sign it, and I'm not convinced that's his agenda (Pence maybe, but not him). Maybe I'm kidding myself.

The other thing we have to remember is the guy isn't king (someone may have to remind him). He has quite a few ambitions on his plate already, and we can ask Obama how hard it is to accomplish your agenda. He will likely make some changes, but I doubt it will be as numerous or far-reaching as everyone is currently concerned. The question will be how much he can do with his own pen. Remember, most of his own party doesn't like him either. As Tom mentioned earlier, there were no complaints when Obama expanded executive powers (I know the argument above, fewer than his predecessors, but inarguably much bigger issues than ever before). Now that he's there, we may all re-discover the importance of separation of powers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/postever ... -for-them/

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:33 pm

>>
Jim, I just don't think there are enough votes to be had to overturn Roe.
>>

Congress cannot overturn Roe vs Wade, but the SCOTUS can.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:45 pm

But Congress can pass a law that would effectively overturn Roe v Wade.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:51 pm

Jim, I just don't think there are enough votes to be had to overturn Roe. Virtually all the Dems and enough of the GOP would oppose. Could make it out of the House maybe but it would only take a handful in the Senate. Even then, we're assuming Trump would sign it, and I'm not convinced that's his agenda (Pence maybe, but not him). Maybe I'm kidding myself.

Scott: Roe is going to be overturned when Trump replaces Scalia and one more justice, either Breyer, Ginsburg, or Kennedy.
Then it will go back to the states, and you'll see all these laws revisited requiring doctors to be affiliated with hospitals, and vaginal probes, and all these other laws that are designed solely to make it impossible for clinics to stay open. Except this time, rather than being narrowly reversed by federal courts, they will be narrowly upheld.

Trying to remain optimistic about appointments and agenda.

You know, like you, I tried to convince myself that, hey, he isn't king, he has restraints….
One of the turning points for me was when he came to Portland this summer and started railing against the Maine Somali population. "You know, Maine, everybody is talking about your Somali population," he kept blustering, having obviously been fed racist talking points by our bigoted governor. Yeah… our "Somali population"… who have integrated into our community, worked hard and raised their families, their kids won our first ever state soccer championship at Lewiston High School last year, the Somalis like the male head nurse at a local nursing home who gave incredibly compassionate care to my dad in his final days last year…. That was the final straw for me. Donald Trump represents hate and bigotry. And now he is president because he has fooled everybody into believing that, aw, shucks, I know a lot of rough things were said during the campaign, but that's just politics, he's really a just a good guy….

But Congress can pass a law that would effectively overturn Roe v Wade.

That's correct Tom. And don't rule it out. But it will more likely happen at the Supreme Court, which will free up the states to do their dirty business.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:57 pm

Tom In DC wrote:But Congress can pass a law that would effectively overturn Roe v Wade.

If congress writes a law overturning it, it will end up in SC. If congress doesn't, the issue will end up in SC. Ultimately, Roe v Wade is the realm of SC and the SC decides on it...

It might survive when Scalia seat is filled. But it most likely not when one more seat is filled.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:07 pm

Roe v. Wade really is not a very intellectually honest decision.
It basically says that the woman has a constitutionally protected privacy interest up to the point of viability of the fetus, at which point the state can intervene.
It is not a great piece of intellectual jurisprudence. It is a purely political decision.
it is FAR from perfect.
But… it has formed some level of a compromise since 1973.
Especially as science and medicine and "viability" have evolved.
It has been under attack by conservatives from Day One.
Over the years it has come close to being reversed, as we have had a predominantly conservative SCOTUS since Nixon.
But right of center justices like Warren Burger, Anthony Kennedy, David Souter, Lewis Powell, Sandra Day O'Connor, and others have almost always shifted to the left of center and have protected a woman's right to choose.
That will now certainly change as President Trump will replace Scalia (a seat stolen by the Republicans), the 80 year old Kennedy, the 83-year-old Ruth Bader Ginsberg (who has battled cancer in recent years), and perhaps Stephen Breyer, who is pushing 80.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:19 pm

I would expect abortion to be outlawed in about 25 states once the SC overturns Roe. Take a look at the electoral college map. If you live in a red state and get pregnant, odds are good your options will be limited.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:20 pm

Pretty much every decision/law/exec order affects the poor more disproportionately than the upper middle class and the rich, generally speaking. This guy is born rich, fluants his wealth and wonder if he ever can empathize and understand their struggle. His attitude is just destroy everything that's against him and everyone who opposes him.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:33 pm

I would expect abortion to be outlawed in about 25 states once the SC overturns Roe. Take a look at the electoral college map. If you live in a red state and get pregnant, odds are good your options will be limited.

That's right David. Roe is about what the states can do. The legislatures in conservative states will outlaw abortion completely. And I see it happening pretty quickly once Ginsberg or Kennedy is replaced.

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:42 pm

Tom In DC wrote:But Congress can pass a law that would effectively overturn Roe v Wade.

Right, but I'm predicting it won't get through the Senate. I think when push comes to shove there won't be enough votes. Again, maybe I'm kidding myself. The other possibility is a case being brought that works its way to the Court that then overturns it. That will take some time. Agree with Jim, it was never a very strong piece of legislation, but there is a good chance even that could be adjudicated narrowly. Most thought Roberts wouldn't permit Obamacare. I don't think it will happen, but if it goes to the states eventually, so be it. Frankly, that's the design we're supposed to be working under.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:14 pm

Just to be clear, I didn't say "would pass a law", JScott. I was simply stating a fact related to stefan's comment on your comment. I'll try to refrain from trying to read your mind in the future.

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:38 pm

So it would be redundant for me to comment on your comment that was directed at another comment. Now that we've got that clear.......

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:43 pm

I have a headache

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:14 pm

This thread makes me want to go grade more exams.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:53 pm

So I thought two of the more entertaining stories in the papers today were

a) NYT one on Trump now realizing that he will have live/work at the White House, which is apparently not as nice as his penthouse. 24k gold plated faucets, marble floors, and all that. And that the fun of campaigning is over, so he'll have to get to work of governing, unless he can delegate some of that to Pence & Co. Apparently he is trying to convince the Secret Service that he still wants to have rallies with his fans, because he loves hearing them cheer for him. And apparently now that he won, he got his Twitter priveleges back from his minders, and promptly started twittering about the protesters criticizing him, saying it was "very unfair".

b) the WaPo reports that another wave of campaign promises are being cast aside. Newt Gingrich apparently says the Mexico Wall was just a metaphor, and he's not going to spend 25bn to build one. After chanting Lock Er Up and what not for a year, there's no plans to get a special investigator to look at the Clintons any further. And after promising to move the US Embassy in Israel to Jersusalem, they've backtracked on that as well. They're also now claiming they were misquoted on Chinese tarriffs. Even the WaPo was amazed at how shifty Trump has been. But I guess they never bought a condo from the guy, and realized how his sales pitches work.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:56 pm

Yes, and most of Obamacare is going to stay as well. Imagine that.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:07 am

You know Ginsberg and Breyer will hang on for another 4 years, health permitting. Kennedy may try to as well especially if he doesn't like where things go in the first year or so of the Trump administration.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:15 am

There was a good Justice Ginsberg skit on SNL tonight.
The whole episode revolved around the election in a rather sober way.

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:00 pm

Trump made me a significant amount of money on his first day so I can't get mad yet....I am not a Hillary voter...I would rather have Bernie even though I agree with him even less. I believe Bernie is doing what he feel is best for the country (even if its not) plus he oozed integrity (whether that's true or not)

Then u have Hillary/Clinton's who appeared strictly about self interest/elitest phonies (phoney like our Rubio here in Fla.) Yes Trump is a bozo but I guess every once in a while to have to send a message....I hear some yelling to eliminate the electoral college but that would be worse...especially since Republicans always start in a large electoral hole(California) plus Florida is turning more blue and Texas may go that way in the future...if things continue it could soon be a cake walk for the Dems....am I talking crazy?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:34 pm

Two things stand in the way of Democrat success in elections: 1) Voter ID laws, ie. suppression, 2) Gerrymandering

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:54 pm

The Republicans control the presidency, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, two-thirds of the governorships, and have 900 more state legislative seats than the Democrats. And just a week ago we thought it was the GOP that was the party in crisis, we were smugly laughing that the Republicans had "gotten what they asked for" in nominating Trump. In reality, it was the Democratic Party that was adrift all along. We Democrats are so arrogant and out of touch. Gotta stop reading the NYT and start talking to some of the "stupid" people sometime. Or maybe we're the stupid ones and we're just too stupid to know it.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:32 pm

I think we are about to come into a first hand experience with a "big league" tyranny of the majority….

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:17 pm

I realize Bernie got screwed/cheated or what not, but I don't think a Bernie nomination would have been a cakewalk either. That would have almost certainly prompted a different NYC billionaire businessmen to enter the race as an independent, with shares of Ross Perot 1992.

I continue to maintain that GOP will end up more disenchanted with Trump than the Dems, as time goes on.

Punch up Ross Douthat's op-ed in the NYT. I think that's a fantasy, but seems to represent the upside.

==========

On a more practical note, it seems like shipping is getting much harder for people in many states.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:18 am

I'm less worried about the Rs and the Ds than I am about the country. Trump is spectacularly unqualified for the job.