President Trump

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:45 am

I agree with your latter statement about national security Alex. I just don’t think that’s something that can be used against him legally, like criminal money laundering or violation of specific laws with clear paper trail evidence.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:48 pm

David,

There is talk of a video...

Alex

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:03 pm

I just can’t get excited about these sex related issues, video or no video.
Even if Trump is being “blackmailed.”
The integrity of an election of a president should not be usurped except under the most extreme of circumstances.
The public has the right to elect a raging lunatic.
I can’t get excited that Russia infiltrated Facebook and the rest of the internet.
Unless you can show me that voting machines are being reprogrammed, or money is illegally changing into Trump’s hands, then I don’t care about his sexual kinks.
Besides, politically, I don’t WANT Trump gone. Pence is much more dangerous.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm

When it comes to trade does Pence think global trade is a good thing like most Republicans or does he share Trump’s flat earth society view that if you have a deficit you must be getting screwed?

Re Comey in some senses he has done the world a favour by undermining a weak candidate and a morally unfit President. So I know Pence holds extreme views but I would be less uncomfortable with him as President.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:36 pm

Comte - Read Peter Navarro's op-ed in todays WSJ on trade with China.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:08 pm

This article sums up my take on how the Cohen raid has changed the situation:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... presidency

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:57 pm

Jim, let's throw out the sexual stuff and, for the sake of discussion, even though it may have been illegal, the campaign stuff.

What if there is solid evidence of felonious criminal financial activity? Money laundering perhaps. What do you think would come of that? What should come of that?

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 pm

Arv - I can’t access that article

The article Patrick linked in from the New Yorker is compulsory reading

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:34 pm

What if there is solid evidence of felonious criminal financial activity? Money laundering perhaps. What do you think would come of that? What should come of that?

It would depend how serious, David.
I'm sure you've seen the Jimmy Carter interview in which he says he is praying for Donald Trump and would oppose impeachment even if Orange Head is guilty of crimes. I'd have to assess the extent of the laundering involved, but the power of a national vote of a president is an extremely important thing that can't just lightly be reversed, and I'm closer to Jimmy Carter on that viewpoint. That's why I roll my eyes when I hear the word "impeachment" being thrown out there by Democrats so loosely, just like when the Republicans did it to Clinton. Clinton likely broke some laws but most people with common sense recognized that he shouldn't be impeached because he lied under oath about a liaison with an intern. It sounded to me like Jimmy was saying he would oppose impeachment basically "no matter what" Trump did. I wouldn't go that far, but I understand his sentiment. Peaceful, national elections for the presidency are about the best things this country still gets right, we can't be quick to neutralize them. Brazil is a place that comes to mind, although it sounds like the fraud and laundering there was pretty epic.

Now is a time to re-read the chapter on Edmund G. Ross in Profiles in Courage..

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:52 pm

DavidG wrote:Jim, let's throw out the sexual stuff and, for the sake of discussion, even though it may have been illegal, the campaign stuff.

What if there is solid evidence of felonious criminal financial activity? Money laundering perhaps. What do you think would come of that? What should come of that?

I am not a pessimist, but I would like to go by facts and reality....

In short, the answer to your question is 'nothing much'....If criminal financial activity is uncovered, the small fish will fry...The rest will be pardoned by Trump. Trump has 3 more years. I don't think he will win second term, but within the next 3 years if Trump associates are looking at jail time, it's not gonna happen. Well if there are state charges, that's a different thing. I think Trump's inner circle who will be implicated will lose... 1. Money, 2. Peace of Mind but I don't forsee them going to prison on federal charges.

If Trump can pardon a sheriff for violating a court order (just because the sheriff is touting his immigration policies ) well before even sentencing, imagining not pardoning his men is wishful thinking. His men can even plead guilty, and get pardoned sooner before he leaves office...The question is not whether he will pardon his men, but how soon will he do...

If Mueller is smart, he needs to play with the timeline of Trump's presidency...And I don't think Dems will control both chambers in midterms. At the most maybe one chamber they might get. And republicans are engrossed in tribalism that will do nothing to control Trump's any law breaking impulses.

Let's see how it will pan out, but I am not banking on any major sentence servings after the investigation is all said and done (that too if Mueller doesn't get fired)...

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:01 pm

I agree with Jim about this whole thing of people yapping about 'impeachment'. They are throwing the word like a loose canon even before Mueller ascertaining all the facts.... Behaving like counting the chickens before they are hatched...There was a debate between this billionaire Steyer guy and Axelrod about this, and Steyer came out as a fool...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... cracy.html

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:34 pm

Maybe DJT will pardon himself.

Not sure Melania will buy it though.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:19 am

I wasn’t talking about impeachment.

First, from a philosophical perspective I agree about the primacy of an election and the need for there to be serious wrongdoing threatening the basic functions of government. Don’t know that we have that (what exactly would be needed to prove obstruction of justice - suspect it’s too subjective a definition), though I’m pretty disgusted with what Trump has done to the accepted norms.

Second, from a practical perspective even if Ds win majorities in both houses there’s no way they’ll have 67 votes in the Senate to convict him. So an impeachment effort would be a colossal waste of resources. Maybe a good thing because Pence would be worse for human rights, though possibly less likely to get us all incinerated and a D majority in the House could put the brakes on regressive legislation. Still a lot of bad can be done independently of Congress.

No, I was asking about criminal charges, whether Federal or State. Is a sitting President subject to the laws of the land or is impeachment (which we agree won’t happen here) the only way to remove him prior to the next election?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:54 am

Well, then of course you get into the metaphysical question of whether the president can commit a crime.
Richard Nixon said no but most scholars say yes.
But it's never been decided.
But it is really a moot issue.
I truly hope you guys are braced for the worst:
Donald Trump will be re-elected, and will serve a whole 8 years in office.
The worst damage will not come from tax laws, and trade policies, or even Middle East policies or confrontation with North Korea.
The worst damage will come from his remaking of the U.S. Supreme Court, as he replaces the likes of Kennedy, Ginsburg, Breyer, and we are left for 20+ years with the concept that John Roberts is one of the liberal voices on the Supreme Court.
That's where the real harm will come, because it will live long past Trump.
Ian's concerns about trade, etc., etc., yada, yada, is just political stuff that can change every 2-4 years.
Who from the Democratic side beats Orange Head in 2020?
NOBODY, I say.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:01 am

Of course the Supreme Court is where the effects will be most long-lived.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:06 am

I truly believe the reports that he is descending into the abyss of dementia.
As I've said here before, I haven't heard barely 5 minutes of his voice since he was elected.
I've READ all about him, but I've turned him off every time he has come on the TV or radio.
During the campaign I listened to him for countless hours.
He was the ultimate American demagogue, he was an American Mussolini.
As much as I despised him, he was DAMNEd GOOD!
I completely understood what the appeal was about especially to depressed areas like central Maine, where I live.
However, I was shocked at how weak his voice was, how much he seemed to have deteriorated, while he was reading his script the other night during the Syria bombing. It was the longest I've listened to him at any one time during his presidency.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:53 pm

Look at how prior POTUS hair all turned grey. Unrelenting stress in the position from external forces.

And then this guy piles on more problems he creates for himself, with women, Twitter, and three front war on the Deep State/NYT & WaPo/NFL.

All that stress causes the cortisol to skyrocket, and without any alcohol to counterbalance those toxins, he is descending into the madness of King Lear.

Of course there's an excellent chance that Blue Wave will shock him in November, and like Clinton, he quickly triangulates and adopts new (plagiarized) policies.

He could get reelected like that - he only needs to keep a few of those Midwest states that flipped.

And some like MN, NH might be shifting away from Blue anyways.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:33 pm

Tasting notes for a teeltotalling president:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... Q5ODIwNAS2

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:45 pm

Well done! Waiting for the TN on Chateau Comey.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:18 am

I met Barbara Bush back in 1991 when she and her husband came to Lewiston in early September after a summer at Kennebunkport.
I was 32 years old, the young pro-education mayor of Lewiston.
The four presidential helicopters landed out on the soccer field at Lewiston High School.
The president was in town to give a major speech on education, sort of the kickoff of his 1992 reelection campaign.
I had the highest of clearance.
The helicopters landed.
She was the first off the helicopter, along with Brent Scowcroft, with then-Education secretary Lamar Alexander, moments before the picture below.
Governor John "Jock" McKernan, the tallest in the picture, the Republican governor husband of Olympia Snowe, knew the Bushes in their Republican circles.
He kissed Barbara on the cheek.
Back then I was even more socially awkward than I am today.
My plan was to shake her hand.
But at the last second I grabbed her by the shoulders and kissed her on the cheek, just like the governor had.
A historically awkward moment for me. She was, of course, only the first of two First Ladies with whom I would interact physically....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:19 am

ROTFL!!!!

NOT at the picture, but at the New Yorker wine reviews.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:23 am

The BD did not post the caption to the picture (which originally appeared in the New York Post):

"Stay away from my wife, asshole!"

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:28 am

Ha he was very nice, what a great day that was, the presidency comes to Lewiston, wow!

His speech at Lewiston High School:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=19933

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:11 pm

If you haven't watched it yet I highly recommend the new Netflix documentary "Bobby Kennedy for President."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io3uQ6Q4NlU

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Tue May 01, 2018 4:33 pm

My favorite quote of the day, now that DJT is being subjected to Nobel Peace Prize consideration for bringing olive branches to the warring Koreans, is from Dennis Rodman, discussing his bonding with young Kim Ma Johng, in particular by sharing a copy of The Art of the Deal, an early DJT manifesto

(Success has a 1000 fathers, failure is an orphan)

"I think that his impression about Donald Trump and the American people, I think he's had a change of heart. I think when I went over the last time for his birthday, I gave him one of Donald Trump's books. I do a lot of things with Donald Trump, and stuff like that, and I think people know that. I think you have the video of me giving him books and telling him about Donald Trump and about Americans, I think he didn't realize who Donald Trump was at that time, I guess, until he started to read the book and started to get to understand him, stuff like that.
"I don't want to take all the credit. I don't want to sit there and say, 'I did this, I did that.' That's not my intention. My intention was to go over and be a sports ambassador to North Korea so people understand how the people are in North Korea. I think that has resonated to this whole point now. And Donald Trump, I don't ask Donald Trump for anything. I like Donald Trump. He's a good friend and I've always asked him to talk to me because the people of North Korea and the government over there asked me to talk to Donald Trump about what they want and how we could solve things.
"I first asked Donald Trump years ago before he became president. I told him I was going to North Korea and he said, 'Dennis, go over there. It's a great thing, Dennis. It's a great thing that you're doing over there.' And when I went over there, things looked great. He was happy and stuff like that. And then things changed, and now, since things have changed again, people are asking me, why aren't you getting any credit because you're the one who brought awareness to the hostages and everyone that's over there, and all of a sudden, he started letting people go. And I'm like, I'm not the president. I'm just one person. I'm just one person and I'm so happy that things are going well."

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Tue May 01, 2018 5:33 pm

My favorite quote of the day is from White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, "He is an idiot."
Posted by a journalist who I respect, and corroborated by 4 sources. Although the WH and Kelly claim he has never said that.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue May 01, 2018 6:09 pm

>>
My favorite quote of the day is from White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, "He is an idiot."
>>

Was he referring to Donald Trump, Dennis Rodman, or both?

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Tue May 01, 2018 7:31 pm

stefan wrote:>>
My favorite quote of the day is from White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, "He is an idiot."
>>

Was he referring to Donald Trump, Dennis Rodman, or both?

Kelly denies that he said it about DT, although former Sec of State Tillerson would neither confirm or deny that he called DT a moron.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Tue May 01, 2018 8:08 pm

stefan wrote:>>
My favorite quote of the day is from White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, "He is an idiot."
>>

Was he referring to Donald Trump, Dennis Rodman, or both?

I think more accurately, Rodman is a rebounding savant

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:01 am

Well, Donald has just started a trade war with allied countries.

I wonder what circle of hell Dante would have put trump in?

Alex R.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:06 pm

Unemployment in Lewiston, Maine, is at 2.3% right now, which of course is basically no unemployment.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:34 pm

AlexR wrote:Well, Donald has just started a trade war with allied countries.

I wonder what circle of hell Dante would have put trump in?

Alex R.

Probably some special gold plated Penthouse plane of Hell (where his WiFi won't connect to Twitter)

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:36 pm

JimHow wrote:Unemployment in Lewiston, Maine, is at 2.3% right now, which of course is basically no unemployment.

One of my buddies who does blue collar work is basically having work 6 days a week, since his employer can't find anyone to help.

He is exhausted all the time. These are long, backbreaking shifts too.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:59 pm

Jim, that 2.3% unemployment rate in Lewiston is very interesting. And I think it is a good lesson in how we need to look at these numbers carefully. Based on stories you have told about what is happening in Lewiston socio-economically, it suggests to me that considerably more than 2.3% of the people do not have jobs. As you know, that data only counts you as unemployed if you are actively looking for work. If you have given up looking for work, or are addicted to opioids and hanging around looking for your next fix, you are likely not employed. And though I have no data to offer for my argument, my sense from looking around where I live is that there are many more people not even trying to work than there were in the past. I'd be interested in other perspectives since I'm in an urban area that has had cyclical unemployment issues for decades.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:04 pm

Agreed, Jon, although a lot of it is relative, of course.
When I was mayor in the early '90s this area was basically in a depression.
More people are working today, but, of course, the bigger question is whether they are making a livable wage.

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/23/ ... 3-percent/

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:10 pm

Jim, I'm visiting your state this weekend. A quick trip to see my brother's family and watch his son graduate from high school (a really bright and responsible kid who will do the state proud). They live in Saco, and we are staying in a small inn along the coast not far from them. We will have to make the next trip longer so there is time for a gathering in Lewiston.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:19 pm

Aww too bad, Jon, would have loved to have you up, I have two extra bedrooms.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:10 am

And meantime it has been 50 years this week that Robert Kennedy was assassinated.
I don't think this country has ever recovered from the triple blows of November 22, 1963, April 4, 1968, and June 5, 1968.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N105wUjgTcM

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:25 pm

I see they are now projecting Republican gains in the Senate this year.
Man, is the Democratic Party pathetic.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:34 pm

JimHow wrote:And meantime it has been 50 years this week that Robert Kennedy was assassinated.
I don't think this country has ever recovered from the triple blows of November 22, 1963, April 4, 1968, and June 5, 1968.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N105wUjgTcM

Add November 8, 2016 to that list. When all said and done, this date will dwarf the rest in terms of damage...