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Claudius2 wrote:Folks,
I am not American nor live there.
I'm an Australian and live in SE Asia these days.

I am not getting into the nuts and bolts issues.
But America seems to be so intractably divided at present.
The campaign was nasty, personal and vitriolic, and nothing has changed since then.
All I hear whether in the US media, local media, European media and social media is a lot of slurs, anecdotes, threats, etc.
The media has turned completely feral from all observations and cares little about the stability of the country.
Their agenda is to oppose everything that Trump and his administration does. And at whatever the cost.

Yes, it seems like the typical Bernie supporter would rather burn the (heretical) Hilary supporters at the stake, rather than fight their mutual infidel Trumpian enemies. Look at the war going on in the CA Democratic Party Chairmanship race.

It is like something out of the vicious Trotsky/Leninist struggles of the early Soviet Union.

AKR,
I wonder if many Americans realise that in the international press, the endless witch hunts, the partisan media and the likes of antifa and college crybabies, is seriously affecting the image of the USA.
During the election, some local news operators (including the govt controlled Chinese new outlet) ran a story about the hot air over transgender bathrooms, quoting the NY Times.
This led to outrageous laughter in Asia, and the nitpicking in the US mainstream media is often quoted here as an example of a country that is undergoing some existential crisis.

I have to say, I read the same crap about Australia and Europe. Constant obsessions about identity politics, gender dysphoria, civil disputes, racial and immigration problems, etc.
I have no party affiliation by the way. Yet I see the west going thru some form of self-flagellation that is watched with bewilderment in Asia.

These are the vanities of a society which has known peace & prosperity for too long.

Come the inevitable turning of the cycle, people will no longer care about those.

An interesting article in this past weekend's WSJ on how federalism and our divisions may be keeping us together:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/federalism ... 1495210904

So what about those rumors, Jim?

Shouldn't this be in the "biggest disappointments" thread?

I just turn him off.
I have literally heard about 30 words of his voice since he was elected, and that was only because I didn't turn off the TV, radio, or computer quickly enough.
It's pretty easy to do, and I feel fine.
I read about his antics, but the audio/visual is minimal.

I love this snippet, from Holman Jenkins this morn

this was ill-advised on the part of a president whose specialty is the ill-advised

What's this? an article praising Ted Cruz for his leadership on health care

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... e-overhaul

I just don't know if I have the strength, Jon.

I guess this should not come as a surprise, but it seems like the shooter who tried to assassinate the GOP majority whip this morning was an angry Democrat (at least according to UK media)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... ressional/

Rand Paul was there and said it would have been a total slaughter (we still don't know if/how the people in the hospital will recover) if there hadn't been people armed and able to shoot back on site, basically pure luck

[For those who are unfamiliar with Dr. Paul, he was actually named after the author of Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead and other literary classics.]

Yes, he was an anti-Trump, anti-Hillary Sanders supporter. And it was the Capitol Police that were the gunmen that took him down.

I was looking at his facebook page as well as some of his "friends" facebook pages. It is clear that many of these people were more rabidly anti-Hillary than anti-Trump in the run up to the election. They became rabidly anti-Trump since his inauguration, but their loyalty was still to Bernie above all. Scary.

Of course, the fact is that this type of crazy can come from anywhere, right or left, or nothing to do with politics. I would prefer that he had a knife rather than a gun.

Just like I long predicted, Trump has quickly turned to making deals with Democrats.

Betrayal is his one true core competency, whether its in business, marriage, or politics.

The best way to understand him is this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farmer_and_the_Viper

US and UK politics are competing to be the most surreal.

In the UK we are experiencing what amounts to a coup attempt by the right wing of the Conservative Party.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/09 ... e-turn-yet

I read that Trump colluded with the Dems to piss off Jeff Sessions who decided to stay on despite his humiliation because he is on a mission to massively reduce immigration.

Also I read with amusement the flood of reviews of Hillary's 'autopsy tour' new book which dragged the rating down to one star

Seems like the Democrats are still in a massive crisis as a party

https://www.ft.com/content/27d98bbe-97a ... 88e51488a0

Comte Flaneur wrote:US and UK politics are competing to be the most surreal.

In the UK we are experiencing what amounts to a coup attempt by the right wing of the Conservative Party.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/09 ... e-turn-yet

I read that Trump colluded with the Dems to piss off Jeff Sessions who decided to stay on despite his humiliation because he is on a mission to massively reduce immigration.

Also I read with amusement the flood of reviews of Hillary's 'autopsy tour' new book which dragged the rating down to one star

Seems like the Democrats are still in a massive crisis as a party

https://www.ft.com/content/27d98bbe-97a ... 88e51488a0

That's a good article in the FT that captures the US well.

4 different coherent political movements, with a fifth personality thrown in.

What is interesting is that there is some cross pollination of ideas among the various factions.

One could probably get factions of both the left and right to agree that some of the income inequality problems are due to the winner take all monopolies that increasingly capture corporate profits.

For example I'm not inclined to agree with Joe Nocera on many things, despite reading his books, but this resonated with me

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business ... ic-utility

I have been amazing this past year.
I swear, I have heard maybe about 3 minutes of Donald trump's voice since Election Day.
Every time he comes on the computer, radio, TV (I rarely watch TV), I just turn it off or channel the station.
The other day I was listening to public radio and I actually listened to him for about 15 seconds, which was by far the most I've heard his voice since January.
I READ a lot about what he's up to, of course, but not having to watch or listen to him has truly been therapeutic.
I highly recommend it.

For those of you who defend Hillary Clinton and wonder why she lost, it is shit like this that is the reason why so much of the population -- including many of us on the left -- dislike her so much:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAumfqZ

Big city people hate Vermonters.

Look what they did to Howard Dean too.

Not since silent Cal has their been geographic fairness.

The arrangement between Hillary For America, the DNC and the Hillary Victory Fund was made to financially help the party, which was in significant debt following the 2012 reelection campaign of former President Barack Obama, Brazile said.

"The funding arrangement with HFA and the victory fund agreement was not illegal, but it sure looked unethical," Brazile wrote in Politico Magazine. The agreement was unfair to Sanders, she said, as campaigns should not be integrated with the party's finances until they are the official nominee.

Money donated to the Hillary Victory Fund by individuals who had met the individual campaign donation limit would be distributed to the state parties who backed the deal first, and then directly to the DNC, Brazile explained.

Clinton's campaign manager Robby Mook reportedly struck the deal with former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), who was ousted from the DNC after leaked emails revealed the committee's ingrained support for Clinton.

Sanders fought a bitter primary race against Clinton, who cinched the Democratic nomination but lost to Trump in the general election.

Clinton has blamed Sanders for her negative portrayals of her that harmed her chances against Trump.

Oh man, that is rich....

We have a criminal in the White House, and Clinton's bailout of the DNC is what has your panties in a wad? The Clinton hatred runs deep here. I suppose it’s better to lance the boil now and hope it scars over before the next election. But Rs will be screaming about her no matter who is running in 2018 and 2020, so I doubt the timing of this latest exposé will make much difference.

Very lawyer/politician-like of you David!
So we have a criminal in the White House, yes, but that means we can't also be disgusted by HRC and Debbie?

JimHow wrote:Very lawyer/politician-like of you David!
So we have a criminal in the White House, yes, but that means we can't also be disgusted by HRC and Debbie?

Why waste energy looking backward?
Should we get behind Joe Biden? He's out there looking like a presidential candidate right now.
There's a lot of talk about how the DP is in disarray without good leadership. Perez and Ellison haven't made any progress so far.
Are there any young leaders who can bring the factions together and set priorities so the DP can regain position in Washington and in the State Houses?

Thank you for the compliment Jim!

I won’t argue that you shouldn’t be disgusted by her Jim. My capacity for disgust is pretty much consumed by Trump.

But Trump aside, I’m now and always have been less disgusted by Clinton's politics than you. Even in this case, I’m less inclined to disgust over her desire to have control over the money she gave to bail out the DNC. Sleazy? Maybe, but really any sleazier than politics as usual? Unethical? I’m not convinced. My understanding is that Sanders had the same fundraising agreement with the DNC as Clinton but didn’t contribute significant sums.

In any case, it was the DNC that was so badly mismanaged. And seemingly still is. And HRC should be old news, so the Ds can look to a new set of leaders and start connecting with voters. And Sanders isn’t it. The Rs would paint him so far into a socialist/communist corner that he’d look redder than the old Soviet flag. Though the Rs might be confused enough to consider that a positive at this point...

Like most things anti-Clinton, this seems to be throwing a bone to Sanders supporters.

The Atlantic has a very good analysis of this "new" revelation.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/544778/

Frankly, with the takeover of the Democrats by the extremists and the disgusting way that Hillary has been treated pre and post election, I am done with the Democrats.

Al Franken.
What a pussy.
Folds like a cheap suit.
Jesus Christ.
I've gotten people out of predicaments a million times worse.
What hysteria.
The Democratic Party:
What a PATHETIC, sorry pile of dog shit.
Oooh... He did something wrong thirty years ago... Ooooh... Woe is us.
Let's round up 32 senators and kick him out.
Without ANY due process.
Look at the Republicans.
roy Moore, a child molester, is about to get elected.
They could give a fuck.
It's all about the big picture.
The weak kneed Dems, meantime...
What a piece of garbage party.
The party that let Don Freaking Trump ascend to the presidency....
What a pathetic, pathetic bunch of sops.
Hey, I'm loving these molesters getting called out.
I'm the biggest feminist there is. Women have had the short end of it for centuries.
But this is a witch hunt.
How about some due process.
Let he or SHE in the US Congress who is without sin cast the first stone.
Man, I would have LOVED to defend Al Franken against these phonies in Congress.
Where are the fighters in the Democratic Party.
They are so, so pathetic.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I despise all politicians. Of all parties, in all countries. Isn’t that horrible?
Ok, there are some that are more despicable than others. But a pox on all their houses!

I wholly agree with both posts

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

If I were Al Franken’s lawyer first thing I would do is pull out the donor lists of every one of the senators asking him to resign.

People might sneer, but perhaps the 'Mike Pence rule' isn't such bad risk mgmt after all

But I too thought Al Franken got a bum deal. What would be awesome is if Alec Baldwin replaced him in the Senate.

That would be a great triumph, and endless hilarity.

The Mike Pence rule is ridiculous and denies women (and to a lesser extent men) opportunities. It is sexist in and of itself and not that far removed from some of the extremist religion-driven social conventions I find abhorrent for their disregard for women's rights.

Men, especially powerful men (not all, but enough) have taken advantage of their power over women through the ages. We’re seeing a shift in the US away from acceptance of that norm, which is a good thing. The shift is disruptive and there are those who will be unfairly painted with the broad brush of change. It’s my hope that the pendulum settles at a point where it takes more than accusations to ruin someone’s life, but also where it’s the rare man who feels inherently superior and where every woman feels empowered to stand up to those who do. It will take a generation or two.

As to the politics, I’m a bit surprised to see myself in 100% agreement with Jim's rant. Maybe there’s a hidden political strategy buried in how this is playing out. But the absence of due process is as upsetting with Franken as it is with Trump and the rest of them.

The U.S. Congress is moralizing about how Al Franken and others should live their lives.
The U.S. Congress.
That bastion of morality and integrity.
That shining beacon of courage and dignity.
Riiiiight.

Maybe by Al Franken quitting that will shame Trump too.

I wouldn't hold my breath.
I have a bet with my lawyer buddies here in Lewiston:
I'm the only one who thinks he is going to serve 8 years.

The pressure is building -- I saw Senator Gillebrand has now called for DJT to resign.

Now that her knives have tasted blood, they want more....

I can see Trump finishing his term. No way he gets impeached and removed. Even if the House miraculously went D in 2018 and impeached him, it would take 2/3 in the Senate for removal. No way Ds end up with 67 Senate seats, and Rs will continue to put party over country.

He’ll need to be indicted and convicted on Federal or state charges to get rid of him. Tax fraud or money laundering is where I’d place my bets.

No doubt there will be a huge brou-ha-ha as to whether a President is prosecutable outside of the Congressional impeachment/removal process. It will ultimately come down to whether the Supremes will place country over party and confirm that the Constitution does not put the President above the law.

Unless he starts WWIII. Then all bets are off. I’d hope for removal as unfit for office, but we might all be dead. Still might be preferable to a second term.

Question for all, but especially for Jim:

I think we can agree that Trump is the worst ever President of the United States. At least worst modern day President. Someone who makes us nostalgic for George W. Bush, who we all thought was a terrible President with several catastrophes on his watch - 911, Iraq war, Katrina debacle, GFC - must be really toxic. I thought Trump would be a terrible President but I am frankly shocked by the sheer vindictiveness and vandalism of his Presidency, and his harnessing of the darker side of humanity. Unwinding much of the progress that has been achieved especially in multilateral fora, out of sheer spite and bloody mindedness basically because he is a c**t, a role model for other c**ts (apologies for any offence caused by my choice of noun).

But my question is which of the two parties is more toxic? The GOP can be accused of being complicit because they want to push through their agenda, but clearly there is no love for Trump in the party. That is clear from Senators not running for re-election who can speak their mind. To me the Democratic Party seems to be every bit as toxic as the Republican Party. Thoughts?

Comte Flaneur wrote:Question for all, but especially for Jim:

I think we can agree that Trump is the worst ever President of the United States. At least worst modern day President. Someone who makes us nostalgic for George W. Bush, who we all thought was a terrible President with several catastrophes on his watch - 911, Iraq war, Katrina debacle, GFC - must be really toxic. I thought Trump would be a terrible President but I am frankly shocked by the sheer vindictiveness and vandalism of his Presidency, and his harnessing of the darker side of humanity. Unwinding much of the progress that has been achieved especially in multilateral fora, out of sheer spite and bloody mindedness basically because he is a c**t, a role model for other c**ts (apologies for any offence caused by my choice of noun).

But my question is which of the two parties is more toxic? The GOP can be accused of being complicit because they want to push through their agenda, but clearly there is no love for Trump in the party. That is clear from Senators not running for re-election who can speak their mind. To me the Democratic Party seems to be every bit as toxic as the Republican Party. Thoughts?

My first post on this site, which by the way is always interesting and a tremendous resource for Bordeaux lovers such as me.
Reading this, I fell compelled to reply, as an "outsider" with a keen interest in World Politics. I am an Aussie living in China, and as such, I know the truth of most World issues lies somewhere in the vast middle-ground between CNN and China's CCTV.
If any American who is educated and has a good grasp of World Politics seriously thinks that Trump is the worst President ever of the United States of America, then he or she is thinking with his or her heart, not brain, and this is a dangerous mistake. Trump is terrible, as a human being he is not worth the excrement he treads on, and as a President his small-minded xenophobia and laughable stupidity actually make, for neutrals such as me, very, very amusing viewing.
However, on the World stage, that criminal assassin, George H Bush, and his mentally sub-normal offspring, easily form the dynamic duo of the worst-ever presidents of the USA, and I am afraid it is day-light third. It is a sad reality that 99% of Americans are pretty much unaware of what these two, and their henchmen, achieved in their reign of terror. A reign of terror that has, sadly, gone completely unpunished and forms the root of just about every major international issue we have today. In China, both are spoken of as being on a par with Hitler, and for good reason.
Trump is a shocker, but goodness, you have had far worse!!!!!!!!

Comte Flaneur wrote:Question for all, but especially for Jim:

I think we can agree that Trump is the worst ever President of the United States. At least worst modern day President. Someone who makes us nostalgic for George W. Bush, who we all thought was a terrible President with several catastrophes on his watch - 911, Iraq war, Katrina debacle, GFC - must be really toxic. I thought Trump would be a terrible President but I am frankly shocked by the sheer vindictiveness and vandalism of his Presidency, and his harnessing of the darker side of humanity. Unwinding much of the progress that has been achieved especially in multilateral fora, out of sheer spite and bloody mindedness basically because he is a c**t, a role model for other c**ts (apologies for any offence caused by my choice of noun).

But my question is which of the two parties is more toxic? The GOP can be accused of being complicit because they want to push through their agenda, but clearly there is no love for Trump in the party. That is clear from Senators not running for re-election who can speak their mind. To me the Democratic Party seems to be every bit as toxic as the Republican Party. Thoughts?

Really Ian? Can you name any policies the Ds have promoted that are even remotely as toxic as what Trump and the GOP have pushed and enabled? You can argue that the political machinations of the nomination process and campaigns are vile on both sides. But there is no comparison when it comes to what they do when in office. I’m not talking about the peckerdilloes of powerful men abusing women, I’m talking about public policy and legislation. The Rs blocked every single thing Obama put forth because he was black, not just because he was a a Democrat. The Rs are now responsible for supporting Trump. He’s their boy and they’re his party. They can’t wash their hands of each other. Rather than write a long list of the (small d) democratic institutions they have together denigrated and tried to destroy, I will point you to the most recent scene in the Trump/GOP shit show: support for Roy Moore's Senate race in Alabama.

Welcome aboard Felix.

I agree that Bush, W in particular with his Midfle East wars, is responsible for far more human suffering and death than Trump.

The Bushes had 12 years between them. Trump has only had 1. Give him time. The potentially saving grace with Trump is that he is so overtly vile and so obvious in his attempts to dismantle democratic institutions that we may have a shot at derailing him or at least limiting his damage. But I’m very very worried.

DavidG wrote: Give him time.

I'd rather not.