Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

GH Bush? What did he do to be compared to Hitler? One recession that he made worse by reneging on his "Read My Lips" pledge. One foray into Iraq after the Koweit invasion with a coalition of a bunch of countries. A missed opportunity after the fall of the Berlin Wall. What am I missing?

Even GW Bush, I would argue it is more ineptitude than intent and evil. Sure, Iraq, but he believed that there were WMDs there and had the backing of most of Congress and the Senate. Katrina was ineptitude of the highest order, and there are so many to blame for the Great Recession starting with Clinton, deregulation, Barney Frank and what not, but sure we can blame Bush as well, I again don't think there was much intent there.

Trump, to me, is pure evil. He wants to crush people, dismantle institutions and trade agreements, willing to nominate himself as dictator. 8 years of Trump? Heaven help us. Let's just hope he doesn't do something to stay in power longer than that. Look at Erdogan!

DavidG wrote:

Comte Flaneur wrote:Question for all, but especially for Jim:

I think we can agree that Trump is the worst ever President of the United States. At least worst modern day President. Someone who makes us nostalgic for George W. Bush, who we all thought was a terrible President with several catastrophes on his watch - 911, Iraq war, Katrina debacle, GFC - must be really toxic. I thought Trump would be a terrible President but I am frankly shocked by the sheer vindictiveness and vandalism of his Presidency, and his harnessing of the darker side of humanity. Unwinding much of the progress that has been achieved especially in multilateral fora, out of sheer spite and bloody mindedness basically because he is a c**t, a role model for other c**ts (apologies for any offence caused by my choice of noun).

But my question is which of the two parties is more toxic? The GOP can be accused of being complicit because they want to push through their agenda, but clearly there is no love for Trump in the party. That is clear from Senators not running for re-election who can speak their mind. To me the Democratic Party seems to be every bit as toxic as the Republican Party. Thoughts?

Really Ian? Can you name any policies the Ds have promoted that are even remotely as toxic as what Trump and the GOP have pushed and enabled? You can argue that the political machinations of the nomination process and campaigns are vile on both sides. But there is no comparison when it comes to what they do when in office. I’m not talking about the peckerdilloes of powerful men abusing women, I’m talking about public policy and legislation. The Rs blocked every single thing Obama put forth because he was black, not just because he was a a Democrat. The Rs are now responsible for supporting Trump. He’s their boy and they’re his party. They can’t wash their hands of each other. Rather than write a long list of the (small d) democratic institutions they have together denigrated and tried to destroy, I will point you to the most recent scene in the Trump/GOP shit show: support for Roy Moore's Senate race in Alabama.

Fair enough David but I was trying - unsuccessfully - to disentangle the Trump factor from the GOP. I am sure there are more racists in the Republican Party but I am not sure there are more perverts and abusers of women, and scumbags more generally. Republicans generically stand for smaller government, lower taxes and less regulation to boost economic growth. That may well be flawed but it is basically an ideology that has a lot of support in the economics profession. Then you have attempts to shut down free speech on university campuses that have gone way beyond what might be construed as reasonable. Political correctness gone mad associated with Democrats. People getting blackballed for mistakes or comments they may have made decades ago. None of us are free of mistakes and vices, none of us can cast that first stone. Absent Trump which party has gone more off the rails? I am not so sure what the answer to that is.

AKR wrote:The pressure is building -- I saw Senator Gillebrand has now called for DJT to resign.

Now that her knives have tasted blood, they want more....

And now a two front Twitter war has been unleashed.

Another Senator, Warren, has denounced him for 'slut shaming' and calls upon him to step down.

He could be getting himself caught in a classic pincer movement, squeezed in a vice by fighting on the left and right.

Comte Flaneur wrote:Question for all, but especially for Jim:

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But my question is which of the two parties is more toxic? The GOP can be accused of being complicit because they want to push through their agenda, but clearly there is no love for Trump in the party. That is clear from Senators not running for re-election who can speak their mind. To me the Democratic Party seems to be every bit as toxic as the Republican Party. Thoughts?

There lies the problem of wanting to belong to one side, IMHO. Generally, when people label themselves as or have proclivity towards one party or the other, they are unwittingly submitting to tribalism. The innate biases including confirmation bias, selection bias, projection bias, and what not further darken the blinders of wearing a political party tag. Why is it hard to be an independent, and see things with a more clear view is beyond me.

Ofcourse there are very few people who belong to one party but can still see things clearly, but alas those are very few people who can make a dent in negative outcomes. The groupings based on caste, clan, tribalism, region, race, religion is a way of self preservation while targeting the other groups different from their own (If you belong to other group, then you are against us so I will oppose you for everything. But if you are one of us, I am willing to condone your misdeeds for self preservation of our group). I just see political parties as the extensions of the same these days. I would rather be not part of any party, that would enable me to be free of biases and help me make a better choice.

I sometimes wonder what if the system is devoid of any political parties but just be individuals running for office based on where they stand on each issue. Then people don't need to see through the blinders....

And now the Senator for California is demanding Trump conform to standards

Chateau Vin raises a good question/issue that others have hinted at. Both major parties seem to be looking at their belly buttons philosophically and are focused on somehow trying to impose their philosophy on the entire country - rather than looking at how to govern in the best interests of as much of our society as possible. I have some of the same concerns about associating myself with a party because I have major issues with both of them.

However, if you look at what it takes for someone to succeed outside of the major parties (Anderson, Perot, shall I say even Wallace?), the cards are stacked against an independent. If the major parties are being controlled by ideologue thinking, the only way that will change is if other "interested" parties infiltrate that establishment and begin to turn the tables. I am concerned that if we all just say "fuck the major parties," we will get even more of what we are currently enduring.

It's not easy to make inroads into that system as I'm sure JimHow can attest. And he is even more connected than most of us. By way of example, some years ago I was in between jobs during a presidential election year. I thought perhaps this was my opportunity to contribute and make a difference in our party election process. So I attended a local organizing event that included some national party figures. We all went around the room talking about what we could bring to the table. I referenced my political science major, my organizing activities in prior decades, my policy development experience (albeit in a corporate environment), and my ability to comprehend and explain a variety of potential perspectives on the issues. The response I got to my offer to help was "how much can you contribute?" (I was between jobs at the time), and can you knock on doors for us (and it does not take my knowledge/experience to do that)? Anyway, I disengaged from that situation even though I did cast my ballot with great commitment during that election.

So although I understand the distaste for party politics as it exists in the current day, it won't change unless other people get involved and make their voices and their influence heard.

That said, I just saw a tweet that Moore went down in Alabama - perhaps there is a God.

Decency wins in Alabama.

Truly an epochal turning point. This is like the battle of Midway.

Oh I don’t know.
It was an aberration of a campaign.
A child molester lost by a whole 1%.
Next year two thirds of Senators up for re-election are Democrats.
It’s going to be a very difficult year to pick up net seats in the Senate.

I think it shows that even Trump with his horde of Tweeter armies is not invincible.

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I read today that he is drinking 12 cans of soda a day. That can't be good for him.

And then he eats McDonalds Filet o'Fish too. Along with other fast food.

The pressure must be getting to him, in these last days in the Trumpenbunker.

His argumentative behavior, the fixation on yelling at the tv, his memory lapses -- these all remind me of unmanaged dementia.

When will Melania make the tough call ?

Jim, your take on the big picture down the road is rather chilling, and probably pretty accurate. The numbers are not in the Democrats' favor for retaking the Senate. And gerrymandered House districts make progress there more difficult.

JimHow wrote:Oh I don’t know.
It was an aberration of a campaign.
A child molester lost by a whole 1%.
Next year two thirds of Senators up for re-election are Democrats.
It’s going to be a very difficult year to pick up net seats in the Senate.

I think this is right. 48% voted for Moore. He carried the white female vote, including those who were educated. Very scary for the future. The only glimmer of hope is that Alabama is just way more racist than the other states with R senators up for election. It’s unlikely the Rs will put up child molesters in those races.

A big issue for Alabamians in that election was abortion. The large evangelical/Baptist electorate wants abortion to be illegal.
However, many conservative white voters sat out the election because the choice on the right was no good, while youths and black voters were energized by the great campaigning done near the end by Jones' national team.
That a vocally pro-choice democrat won that race says a lot about changes we can expect going forward.

I thought it rather shameful that Moore wouldn't concede defeat last night, and instead spoke about how God would put things right in the recount.

You can't stop him, you can only hope to contain him.

https://warontherocks.com/2017/12/hones ... ategy-say/

And even more awesomely, this morning he is now insisting on Twitter that he knew Moore would lose and that's why he backed Luther Strange !

Another devastating blow: Omarosa is leaving the White House too.

Big day today.

I still don't see it.
I still don't see the smoking gun of collusion.
Besides, as I've said before, I'd rather have Trump in there than Pence.
I saw the NYT Times editorial where they laid out all the evidence point by point against Trump.
And then I said, Is that all you got?
I haven't really followed the whole porn star payoff controversy but to me there's an issue there...
...for the lawyer. How is that not a bar violation?
Lawyers aren't allowed to do that for their clients, at least not in my neck of the woods.

13 Russians indicted today for election meddling in 2016, specifically sowing discord about Hillary Clinton while supporting Trump and Sanders thru social media, and attempts to influence Trump campaign associates.

I’m sorry Chris I just can’t excited about that information.
13 Russians out of 8 billion people spreading misinformation on the internet. The horror.
People are getting catfished every day.
When they find information that the Russians are tampering with voting machines, wake me up.

I concur with Jim. There is nothing so far in terms of collusion as far as evidence goes as of now. Maybe someone will flip and spill the beans.

Everyone knows russians were involved in more than meddling. So? Mueller indicted the russians, which is expected. That's about it as of now...Even if russians are tampering with voting machines, russians will be indicted. If other than russians di the meddling, they will be indicted. Still waiting for someone to show me collusion part. It might have happened, but the court needs the evidence...

You should read the indictments Jim.
It's only 30 pages.

I have. Do you think Trump will be impeached and convicted based on this? I say not. The Dems will be incredibly foolish if they bring articles in the unlikelihood that they regain the House.

When will the FBI indict Suckling?!

Count 1, collusion with Frescobaldi di Castiglioni to convince the American public that it is more than a supermarket wine.

JimHow wrote:I have. Do you think Trump will be impeached and convicted based on this? I say not. The Dems will be incredibly foolish if they bring articles in the unlikelihood that they regain the House.

Of course I don't think that.
This indictment isn't about impeaching Trump.
What it does is provide the proof that there was a Russian conspiracy to commit election fraud in the US.
It lays out specific instances of unwitting Americans being paid by Russians to do their bidding.
It exposes one big lie Trump keeps repeating - that the Russia probe is a witch hunt, therefore making it much harder to derail the investigation.

Mueller is far from finished. Most of his special deputies are exploring other areas of possible criminal behavior, and this was needed now to give them the space to complete their work.

I agree with Jim that there’s no way Trump is impeached and removed through the impeachment process. Even if Ds take the House, no way we’ll get 67 D Senators to convict him. He really could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and get away with it as far as Congress is concerned. We’d get expressions of "concern," maybe "Thoughts and Prayers" for the victim's family, but no real action from Congress. What’s one New Yorker compared to over a dozen schoolchildren?

That doesn’t render the investigation or the indictments meaningless. And Mueller isn’t done. And we have yet to hear from the NY state prosecutors. I think we’re stuck with Trump for his full term, but I am wondering what will happen if there is incontrovertible evidence of financial crimes. Can a sitting President be tried, convicted and removed from office? How would that play out?

Not sure about that, David. The Republican leadership would be happy with President Pence, who sends chills up and down my spine.

To me these phonies like Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, John Kasich, Hillary Clinton, etc., are much more dangerous than Orange Head.
With Trump we see the ugliness out in plain view. With those other wolves -- and many more like them -- their rot is hidden behind the veneer of "normalcy."

stefan wrote:Not sure about that, David. The Republican leadership would be happy with President Pence, who sends chills up and down my spine.

Agreed, as with Jim's subsequent post. I still don’t think the Senate would convict him, though my comment on shooting someone was hyperbole.

I suppose if Rs are run out on a rail in November and Trump is perceived as toxic to their chances of winning in 2020, they might finally see him as a gangrenous appendage threatening their existence and worthy of amputation.

Can anyone name someone who would likely be a good president and would have a chance to win?

Joe Biden’s not perfect but he should run and serve one term just to get this shit show out of there.
The Obama people are supporting Deval Patrick, watch out for him.

I listened to Trump tonight for about 5 whole minutes, the most I've listened to him at any one time since he was elected.
Boy, he really is suffering from some level of dementia, no?
He has really slipped mentally since his campaign speeches.

Bombing Syria. Good move Donald. Makes you seem borderline presidential. You can put announce the news with a stab at gravitas"My fellow Americans..."

Diverts attention from Golden Showers in Moscow.

Yes, convenient. Very good move.

Alex R.

Just like when Big Bill bombed the pharmacy on the day that Monica testified before the grand jury.

What a sad week. Trump seems to be getting even more incoherent and unstable and one of the few sober people in DC - Paul Ryan - who understands the menace of our out of control entitlement recklessness, has departed. Ryan was the one bright shining light in a sea of DC darkness.

I was thinking to myself last night that I might have actually preferred a POTUS HRC and Speaker Ryan combination to resolve our broken social insurance system rather than whatever combo we'll end up with, who will not be able to touch it.

These big problems just can't be addressed by one party alone. And I think the Democrats actually have more impetus to get to the bargaining table sooner. In general these programs are needed by their constituencies more, so as they get eroded, it stings them deeper.

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I saw that some Italians were describing their history in how to fight Berlusconi, who was a European precursor to DJT. Apparently the best strategy was to fight him on issues, and stay away from the name calling / personality stuff. Twitter wars are on his turf. Instead stick to issues like health care where no one is satisfied with the status quo.

I didn’t think it was likely before they raided Cohen’s office, but I now think Trump is more likely than not to fire Mueller. The noose is really tightening and you can see and hear Trump’s panic. Constitutional crisis here we come.

I wish the news media would show more pictures of these Playboy Playmates.

That's one plus of all this compared to the sad little l'affaire Lewinsky of decades ago.

Trump's peckerdillos may be the most titillating of his misbehaviors but they are the least threatening to our democracy and are probably not the sort of criminal acts that could get him in serious legal trouble.

I think he's more worried about Mrs. Trump.

Jugoslavians have ill tempers when they are crossed.

After all, that is how The Great War started

What's this? Is he still president? Thought the nutter would be long gone by now...

David,

I agree that people's sex life should remain private.
Everyone's.

However, Clinton had sex in the Oval Office. The above principle does not apply.

And, if anyone actually filmed Trump with prostitutes in Russia, that makes him open to blackmail, and thus represents a danger to national security.

Alex