Is Mark Squires being forthcoming?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:17 am

I see Mr. Parker has posted a sticky message on his site, expressing only HIS views, but has closed the message to discussion. Pathetic.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:49 am

Just saw this thread, I'm sure it will be deleted quickly.
I know I should be letting this go, but these tactics by Parker/Squires are just SO offensive to me.

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Ed Murray
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sammamish WA
Posts: 2,668 Taking it to the next level...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Parker
We want to reach out to BB members who love the site and desire to see it improved and to flourish, and have its best interests at heart. In short both Mark and I are going to ask for your input and help to take this board to the next level.

Here's my feedback:
I have a tremendous respect for what YOU RP have contributed to the wine world. My Bordeaux palate is very much aligned with yours. YOU are not the problem. The problem:

The moderators of this board are in my opinion WAY too heavy handed. The paranoia that folks such as Max Marinucci or Dan Posner or Eric Levine are pimping their own interests is not justified. They and MANY others who have been banned or put on a pre-screen list have contributed tremendously to this board. The heavy handed moderation gives the appearance of a sanitized site, I'm not interested in that. Maybe I'm one of the ones who should go away?

In my opinion you should have stood tall, taken the bullets and let the disease run its course. It's too late for that now. However, as a starter perhaps you can keep this post here for people to share their thoughts with you.
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Pass the cheese pleeze...

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05-31-2009, 07:39 PM #2
Marty Balogh
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Posts: 417 Re: Taking it to the next level...

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Ed,

Well stated and I agree with you 100%.

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05-31-2009, 07:46 PM #3
Joel Pulver
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Posts: 226 Re: Taking it to the next level...

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I give this thread less then an hour. Freedom of speech does not exist here.
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#4
Ray Walker
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Ed, agreed as well. One thing of note is that the thread leaves me a bit confused on what the proper method of giving the suggestion is as the thread was closed prior to any suggestions being given by design. I have learned a great deal on this board, and made friends who have left or otherwise. More than a few of us who pride(d) ourselves on being a part of the community are concerned that we are looked upon as the problem. How can things progress when people are concerned their honest suggestions for their community might get them thrown out?

*Comments mentioned above are stated as a means of positive progression for the board, having the board's best interest in heart. Any misinterpretation otherwise is not the fault of author.
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05-31-2009, 07:57 PM #5
Marty Balogh
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Posts: 418 Re: Taking it to the next level...

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Ray,

We can only hope that in the spirit of RP's openness to suggestions we can be heard rather than getting shut down at even the hint of challenging the status quo.

SteveH · Post by **SteveH** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:11 am

Mr. van Gorp has really pushed all the hot buttons in his heartfelt letter to RP. I doubt he'll ever receive a reply because the truth is, as we all know, they're running a hostile dictatorship at Squires. Can you imagine, even I was kicked out of there a few years ago? It was for nonsense, a disagreement of opinion concerning certain highly rated RP wines that I factually disputed with the king alongwith a few of the knights and bishops there. Anyhow, without free speech there can be no fresh thought, so I predict that that wine site will come unglued. I bet that RP will retire soon.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:17 am

I'm starting to feel inadequate that I have never been kicked off the Squires board!!!

In my time at BWE, we never kicked anyone off (thought I think Pomerollover was driven away... his starring role as sycophant-in-chief on the Squires board says we got it right in my book), despite strong views, strong personalities and lots of not-so-hidden agendas (like Tom's 1989 Haut Brion!).

SteveH · Post by **SteveH** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:26 am

Who was the nutcase here that threatened another member with gun violence a few years ago?
That was scary, and he was immediately kicked out.
Blanquito, if you want to get kicked out of Squires, just disagree with one of the warlords. It's easy.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:35 am

That was Jerry from Houston.
He keeps popping up under other names.
We've deleted members, perhaps sometimes unfairly. BWE is certainly far from perfect. But overall, I believe strongly in not censoring. Negative threads always eventually disappear and are pretty quickly forgotten. What Parker and Squires don't realize is that, by their conduct, they have perpetuated what would have been a one or two day controversy following the WSJ article. The reason why I started this thread was not because of the controversy itself. Alex started a separate thread on that. I was goofing off on the computer late Thursday afternoon and watched dozens of messages being deleted one after another over on the Squires site, most of which were asking legitimate questions. It was really infuriating, and I'm not even a participant there.

I have a busy week so I'm not going to be able to continue to do my little part to be a gnat bothering the elephant.
But I'm glad BWE registered its own little protest.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:53 am

>>
Who was the nutcase here that threatened another member with gun violence a few years ago?
That was scary, and he was immediately kicked out.
>>

Jerry was just following an old Texas tradition, Steve.

On a not unrelated issue, it looks like the bill to allow Texas college students to pack when going to class will not pass.

stefan

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:58 am

...how 'bout the secession movement???

Rieslingfan · Post by **Rieslingfan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:08 am

I've had serious, public run-ins with Parker, Miller & in the past, Rovani, but I have never been kicked off or suspended.

What's wrong with me?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:39 am

Jay Miller · Post by **Jay Miller** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:42 pm

JimHow wrote:

Also, I'm assuming that "Doctor" Jy Miller is not the same person as the regular-Joe Jay Miller who used to post on the old BWE? He was a good guy, what ever happened to him, anyway?

Oh, I still lurk here and post once or twice a year or so (about the same rate as on wldg). I post a lot on Wine Disorder and the Squires board (mainly for the Burgundy discussion).

Generally whenever I think about posting a comment on this board I find that Dale has already said the exact same thing

.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:27 pm

Guv Goodhair is not pushing succession now. He is probably too busy setting up his next job for when Kay Bailey knocks him out of the Texas White House. But that is another, not very nice, story...

stefan

PappaDoc · Post by **PappaDoc** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:47 pm

I don't post on Squires board but read it once or twice a week. I read it for the Burgundy threads as there are a core group of Burg nuts with as much experience as many Professional critics. There are some very good comments on German wines from time to time as well.

I read, again don't post, on West Coast Wine Network, and Wine Lovers Discussion Group, perhaps once every two weeks. Two Blogs I read, both excellent, are The Burgundy Report and Mosel Fine Wines Newsletter. I highly recommend both as they are free and have "On the ground" coverage, with current evaluations with new releases and older vintages . This makes both a good source for folk thinking about current retail and auction purchases. Lastly, I read Cellar Tracker Notes three times a week. The value in these notes are excellent for the current state of developement of wines that I wish to purchase or am limited to one to three btls and don't want to open one too soon.

I've been reading BWE almost daily since I joined in the first month of it's life. Usually I start my day with a cup of tea and BWE. Generally, I read it again just before I go to bed.

As to the Squires board, there are some very well spoken folk (many are BWE members) whose inputs I highly regard. I am very put off when personal attacks are issued, after all, it is about wine not Religion or Politics. I'm always saddened when these things happen on BWE and I'm glad it's a rairity. It has caused folk to leave here, in some cases thier silence is deafining as three or four used to post almost daily. I don't wish to name them, I just miss them. I'm glad one has returned and wish the others would do the same.

When negative actions are noted and discussed, far to often the tone of the discussion will become negative, and negative fellings will develope between the participants. I saw that happen with these threads about the Squire Board and Robert Parker.

BWE has made some of my best friendships, and we are like a Family Reunion when we have our Conventions. Lets stay "On The High Road"

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:40 pm

Did anyone note how long it took The Square to delete the "Taking it to the next level..." thread?

Pappa, when I go that board, it is usually to see if certain members have written about Burgundies I am interested in.

stefan

Rieslingfan · Post by **Rieslingfan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:51 pm

The "Taking it to the Next Level" thread is still there. It's in SOcial Hall, but it's neither deleted nor locked. Bob even commented on it.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good bashing.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks, David; I would never have thought to look there. How did you think of it?

Why would facts ever get in the way of bashing?

(Not that any of my posts on this thread involved bashing, unless my using nicknames is "bashing").

That thread, five pages, is too long for me even to skim decently, but my glancing at it suggests that The Square is coming in for a lot of criticism from his board members for how he runs his board.

stefan

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:44 pm

Stefan, it started on the regular "wine talk" board last night, then it got buried to the "social hall" forum by moderator pomerollover of all people.

As for the letter posted on the wine talk forum by Parker:

He continues to blame others for having an "agenda" for criticizing him.

Also, he says his secretary says the WSJ called him two days before their deadline, but, because he was on the west coast at the time, for some reason he couldn't coordinate a return phone call. That seems like BS to me. I've been interviewed by the New York Times, New Yorker magazine, Newsweek, all three major national networks, all the state networks, radio stations, and newspapers around the country. Heck, I've been interviewed by Al Jazeera, for crying out loud. When the Wall Street Journal calls you concerning what appears to be a less than flattering story about your empire, you make an effort to call them back ASAP. If you choose to not call them back-- which is your right-- you don't go on to bitch about the fact that they didn't tell your side of the story.

I've really lost a lot of respect for Robert Parker. And I have no agenda against him. To the contrary, I've always enjoyed his writing. But I've seen an arrogance here that I guess I never really expected. I mean, he always seemed like a gentleman, I liked the way he didn't respond negatively when mags like Wine Spectactor and Decanter have attacked him, etc.

This has really been an eye-opener.

Rieslingfan · Post by **Rieslingfan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:44 pm

stefan wrote:Thanks, David; I would never have thought to look there. How did you think of it?

Well I do have upwards of 7000 posts over there, so I know the lay of the land.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:25 pm

Squires has responded. I think he's having a nervous breakdown.
David, you are on friendly terms with him. Someone needs to talk to him.

I will agree on one thing with Mark Squires: Damn it, it is a lonely job being moderator of a wine website....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:07 pm

Jim, have you finished the song you told us about at BWE-09, "The Dictator's Lament"?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:15 pm

Yes, you know, I find I'm at my most creative when I'm in emotional pain....

There must be a song in this somewhere.

I'm beginning to actually feel sorry for Brother Squires, my fellow dictator.

I think we should delete this thread and the ethics thread, in solidarnosc and support for a fellow dictator.

I'm going to do whatever Stefan says. I've always said he is the one who best understands what we are trying to accomplish here on BWE.

If Stefan says it gets deleted, it gets deleted.

If he says it stays, it stays....

So Caesar-like....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:32 pm

Aw, keep it, Jim. But let's keep a sense of humor, too.

stefan, wondering what wine to open for Lucie's cheese soufflé.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:34 pm

So it is written. So it shall be done....

I agree, humor is the key....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:59 pm

PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

HOW LENDS SUPPORT TO FELLOW DICTATOR SQUIRES

Philadelphia (AP)-- In an unexpected show of solidarity this evening, noted Maine attorney, philanthropist and benevolent dictator Jimmy "Lynch Bages" How arrived in the City of Brotherly Love to assist fellow wine forum dictator Mark Squires, on trial for the crimes of censorship and thin-skinnedness.

Squires has been under relentless attack for nearly a week since the publication of a story in the Wall Street Journal questioning the ethics of his recent trips at the expense of the "governments" of Israel and ViniPortugal.

"Enough is enough," said How as he entered a waiting limousine at Philadelphia International Airport. "This is one of the finest experts on Portuguese and Israeli wines in the world. I refuse to see this good man brought down by 'cliques' with an agenda."

A meeting was scheduled between the dictators for later this evening.

Harry C. · Post by **Harry C.** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:25 pm

No wonder the Philly Inquirer is going down the tubes!

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:00 am

I went to The Square's board to see what he had to say, but was sidetracked by Jay Miller's "My Apologies". He says, "I have told Bob that I am deeply sorry for creating an impression of impropriety and using poor judgement in socializing with importers who have been good friends of mine predating my full-time employment with The Wine Advocate." The Bob wrote "There is absolutely no excuse for any of this but I should say all of the writers I hire are not employees, but do contract jobs with strictly defined parameters and ethical standards." Not exactly a contradiction, but...

stefan

Rieslingfan · Post by **Rieslingfan** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:04 am

Might be time to stop parsing every single word used. I really doubt they word-checked his post before he put it up.

His full time employment is writing for the Wine Advocate. What word he happened to use is probably driven by conventional language more than considered thought.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:22 am

I did not realize that Miller worked full time writing for the WA, David, and was surprised to learn that after Parker's post said that his writers do contract jobs only. This has nothing to do with parsing words. Sure, there is a difference between a contract employee who does full time contract work for one contractor and an employee of that contractor, but the line is thin. Parker, not I, is the one who put some importance of the writers not being his employees.

stefan

jal · Post by **jal** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:43 am

The apology by Jay Miller is long overdue. I'm not sure I am completely satisfied yet, but we have at last seen a step in the right direction. I still am quite put off by the arrogance with which Parker and Squires have managed this affair, but they at least moved from the damage control defensive stage to admitting that maybe all is not perfect in their kingdom.

I have thought about posting on the Squires Board to have my feeling known, but I frankly do not enjoy the discussions on that board at all.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:44 am

Parker cannot avoid RICO liability by calling his confederates independent contractors. Grab your pitchforks, les sans culottes, and to the barricades!

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:45 am

I really think this is right up Arlen Spector's alley.

Rieslingfan · Post by **Rieslingfan** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:56 am

You want Connecticut Attorney General RIchard Blumenthal for this one. He's famous for frivolous lawsuits that gain nothing but camera time for Richard Blumenthal.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:31 am

It's true that blaming one's subcontractors is the easy way out.

Best regards,
Alex R;

Johan · Post by **Johan** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:39 am

JimHow wrote:PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

HOW LENDS SUPPORT TO FELLOW DICTATOR SQUIRES

Philadelphia (AP)-- In an unexpected show of solidarity this evening, noted Maine attorney, philanthropist and benevolent dictator Jimmy "Lynch Bages" How arrived in the City of Brotherly Love to assist fellow wine forum dictator Mark Squires, on trial for the crimes of censorship and thin-skinnedness.

Squires has been under relentless attack for nearly a week since the publication of a story in the Wall Street Journal questioning the ethics of his recent trips at the expense of the "governments" of Israel and ViniPortugal.

"Enough is enough," said How as he entered a waiting limousine at Philadelphia International Airport. "This is one of the finest experts on Portuguese and Israeli wines in the world. I refuse to see this good man brought down by 'cliques' with an agenda."

A meeting was scheduled between the dictators for later this evening.

Hey Jim,

Wouldn't Jimmy ''The Lyncher'' be more Philly-like............

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:50 am

I like it, Johan. If I had time I'm do a trial a la BWE vs. Lynch Bages.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:12 pm

PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

HOW TO REPRESENT SQUIRES IN UPCOMING TRIAL

Philadelphia (AP)-- True wine lovers everywhere rejoiced as famed international lawyer, philanthropist and benevolent dictator Jimmy "Lynch Bages" How appeared with beleaguered Israeli and ViniPortugal wine expert Mark Squires on the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art, in the shadow of the statue of Philadelphia icon Rocky Balboa.

To the surprise of many, How had shaved his head in a show of solidarity with his fellow dictator. How announced that he had been retained by Squires to defend the Philadelphia native in the upcoming trial on the charges of censorship and thin-skinnedness.

"Like Rocky Balboa, my client is a fighter," said How defiantly. "These charges are baseless. Mark Squires is a fair and kind wine site moderator, open to the free flow of ideas. And he's a damned good taster of Israeli and ViniPortuguese wines as well."

The trial of Mr. Squires is scheduled to begin in federal court later this week.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:34 pm

PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

NATION OF VINIPORTUGAL OFFERS ASSYLUM TO SQUIRES

Lisbon, Portugal (AP)-- The pending federal trial of famed internet wine board dictator Mark Squires took on an international twist today as ViniPortuguese prime minister Jose Socrates offered asylum to the beleaguered expert of Israeli and ViniPortuguese wines.

"Mark is a friend to the great people of our land," said the prime minister in a hastily convened press conference, backed by leaders from the ViniPortuguese parliament. "He has been there for us, and we want to be there for him during these days of trouble."

Sources report that negotiations are currently underway between officials from ViniPortugal and the Obama administration for the safe extradition of Squires out of the country and to the hills of Portugal wine country.

Squires's attorney Jimmy L.B. How was reported to be closely involved in the sometimes-heated talks. Reports of a scuffle during negotiations between How and White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel were denied by both the White House and How's law office staff in Maine.

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:13 pm

most of the ebob outcasts have moved to winebeserker.com. I invited Daniel Posner (recently banned from ebob land) over here-good guy ITB with whom I have dealt. I think MS's days are numbered as moderator or at least his powers will be reduced. He's upset a whole lot of folks, many of whom are WA subscribers.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:44 am

PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER

SOCIAL SECTION

SQUIRES, HOW DINE AT LOCAL FRENCH RESTAURANT

Philadelphia (AP)-- Inquiring minds listened in this evening at a popular Philadelphia restaurant as word spread that renowned lawyer, philanthropist and wine board dictator Jimmy L.B. How was spotted dining with fellow dictator, Philadelphia attorney Mark Squires. Several bottles of Portuguese and Israeli wines were presented to the table by restaurant staff.

"He called me 'puerile'", How was overheard saying. "I didn't even know what that meant! I had to look it up on dictionary.com. I was just joking about that monster over on your site, and he rips my head off. And this is the guy I let have my last remaining bottles of '05 d'Angerville Volnay Premier Cru in New Hampshire after I drove over two hours to get them. What thanks did I get? He didn't even save me a single bottle of '04 Lafite or Ausone, just sold them all off at a profit of thousands to the millionaires in Singapore. I say that's puerile, if you ask me. Some friend...."

"Hey, I could write a book on what's going on at Mr. Parker's site," replied Squires. "We got this guy named Jeff Leve over there, I think he's trying to take over the site from me, you should see how much he's been brown-nosing the big boss."

"We had this guy named Roberto," replied How, sipping on a fine Israeli red and not appearing now to hear what Squires was saying. "I've been nothing but nice to this guy, a friendly fellow from New Jersey. A doctor, he is. One day I made a half-hearted quip about Joey Belmaati being too good for us 'plebians'. He called me 'mean-spirited', storms off the site, we haven't seen him since! I mean, I've met this fellow like six times times face to face, we've had nothing but great times, does he really think I'm mean-spirited because I inserted the word 'plebian' into a single sentence on a geeky meaningless wine internet site? Geez!"

"I feel so misunderstood," said Squires. "Ask David Glasser. I'm a nice guy. Really, I am."

"So I'm in Sonoma in '06," replies How, oblivious now that Squires is even there. "We've got this girl Maureen in our group. Really nice girl, lots of fun. Incredibly knowledgeable about wine. So I make a comment on the internet about some jerks at the table she was sitting at in New York one night back in '03, like four years previously. She freaks out on me, thinks I'm referring to her, which I'm not. Never speaks to me again!"

"What are your thoughts on the Kevin Zraly Wine Certification Program?" inquired Squires.

"So I've spent like tens of thousands of dollars on this site," said How, "paying for deficits at annual conventions, buying '90 d'Yquems at $300 a pop. Hey, I do alright, but I'm not rich, you know? I'm just doing the best I can. Fortunately, I've made some incredible friends over the past decade, which makes it all worthwhile. There's this guy down in North Carolina who had his guts ripped out a few years back. He seems to be doing fine, which makes me very, very happy. Wonderful wife, he has. You wouldn't believe this guy living in Paris right now, he donated his whole Pontet Canet collection just so a few of us-- including some real shitheads who have since been banned from my site-- could dine in New York City with Alfred Tesseron. There's this couple in Chicago-- I wrote a song about them for crying out loud, I actually love these people. And this guy from Quebec who looks like he's seventeen, he'll give you the shirt off his back. We got these guys from New York, and all over, for that matter.... And this guy we call 'PappaDoc'-- he's had a couple rugged years healthwise, yet he never, ever complains, never has a bad word about anyone-- his son Jack would benefit well to emulate him...."

"There's this couple down in Texas. The old man teaches at A&M. His wife is a saint. I called him when he was on his death bed a few years back.... He's still kicking, as sarcastic as ever. I'm no doctor but that's a good sign, in my opinion. When he goes, man, I'm gone...."

"Will you take Josh Wertlieb back on your site, he's driving me nuts," said Squires, finishing the last of a beautifully aged three-year-old Portugal red.

"No thanks," said How. "He's all yours."

JEP_62 · Post by **JEP_62** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:32 am

Jay Winton wrote:most of the ebob outcasts have moved to winebeserker.com. I invited Daniel Posner (recently banned from ebob land) over here-good guy ITB with whom I have dealt. I think MS's days are numbered as moderator or at least his powers will be reduced. He's upset a whole lot of folks, many of whom are WA subscribers.

Hi Jay,

Just a little correction. Most of the people on Wine Beserkers are not Squires' outcasts. They are mostly people that are just fed up with Squires' attitude and moved on to a place that is fun again. I belong and have to say most members have never been kicked off or put on probation at Squires. I've never even had a post moved or edited and (I was going to say enjoy, but that's not right) maintain full posting rights on Squires. Granted, I didn't really post that much on Squires because the atmosphere never really suited me.

I would just rephrase your sentene to say "many of the people fleeing ebob have moved to winebeserker.com".

Andy