Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

I really do think you should write a novel one day, Jim.

Why not the first wine thriller........

I've actually got a novel mostly written, Johan, it still needs work though, if I can ever find the time. It's about... a criminal lawyer....

As for the wine thriller above, I was going to put together a surprise ending where the two shaved-headed dictators start a separate wine magazine about the wines of Israel, Portugal, and Pauillac....

Robert Parker is 61 years old. Other people are waiting in the wings to take over. And I predict that no one will ever again hold the same sway, because we now communicate in a very different way. There is *feedback* and we don't have to live under anyone's dictatorship, benevolent or otherwise .
Information circulates far more freely and people travel much more. You, in a way, had the same the same opportunity to taste wines at the Weekend des Grands Amateurs as a famous wine writer. This would have been impossible even 5 years ago!

So, the times they are a changin'.

All the best,
Alex

Sorry, I'm late to the party, but I think Alex has hit on something here that really reflects the changing landscape of wine criticism and it needs some consideration. The days of the almighty RP are numbered and it's unlikely he'll be replaced. The man, by all appearances, seems to be a gifted taster and a genuine human, whose success can largely be attributed to being "right place/right time". The wine world today is so much larger than it was in the late 70's/early 80's. There are literally dozens of areas producing world class wines today that just weren't on the radar back then (South Africa, NZ, Oregon, WA, Argentina, etc). It has become unrealistic to expect one reviewer to cover every vintage from every significant wine region. Parker has addressed this by adding staff, but many questions remain about whether the staff is as capable/scrupulous as he is. At the same time, the rise of the internet and the ease with which information can be shared has reduced the need for a magazine such as TWA. Ask yourself which is more valuable, a Bordeaux TN that's 5 years old from RP, or twenty cellar tracker notes covering the five years since RP last reviewed it? Twenty Five years ago, a newsletter was the best option for disseminating wine commentary to a national audience. Now you can reach the same audience via blogs, podcasts, messageboards, and websites for a fraction of the cost it would take to start up a newsletter (see Neal Martin's success).

I still respect Parker's ability to evaluate Bordeaux style wines, but his relevance in today's wine world would seem to be fading. Credibility hits like this will only speed the decline...

Interesting points indeed, Mike. In the end, I still think the mighty Parker diminishes himself when he gets down into the muck on his website. I can't preach too much because this thread has certainly had its nasty moments here, but that thread going on right now in the Squires site "social hall" has become really foul.

WTF
Now they are attacking Jeff Leve for having enthusiasm for great wines and the resources to pursue his desires.
I'll just hang here with y'all.
We can drink a bottle or two, disagree all night and still be best of friends.
I think it's called maturity. But Susan says I've never displayed any so I could be wrong.

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.

Pretty much all the remaining sniping on eBob (and also now elsewhere, with other people as the target) is about jealousy. It's not pretty.

In fact I think jealousy has very little to do with that discussion. Bruce_L and Paul Jaouen both made the point that for Leve to have the kind of vigorous arguments that he had here as Pomerollover, and also to have a finger on the "delete" button, makes for an automatic conflict of interest. Jim, would you have made Leve a moderator here? Would you have allowed him to delete posts that he thought were untoward?

F

Definitely not on both counts, he was too confrontational. I don't think the problem with that site is Leve, though.

Frank,

Please describe the exact qualifications to be a moderator on a wine bulletin board. Please also be prepared to defend such requirements against numerous webizens trying to poke holes in them.

There is no perfect solution in a community as large as eBob. There's too many agendas and opinions, and nobody is going to be happy 100% of the time.

BWE is a much smaller community, and is relatively peaceful (though BWE can never claim complete innocence in the Pomerollover issues). Mark Squires' board used to be relatively peaceful until it got too big.

I personally didn't have any problems with pomerollover, even though his style tended to be combative and he was kind of pompous in some of the things he said. It's just words. The idea of him as a moderator, though, is nuts! Not a whole lot of moderation there. On the other hand, I think it is silly that some are attacking him for the supposed special treatment he is getting in Bordeaux. I used to visit the Squires site like twice a year, then I started visiting it like once a month, then of course i started visiting every day for the past couple weeks during The Controversy, and I hated myself for it. Now I seem to have gotten bored with the "taking it to the next level" thread and have only been over there a couple times this week, which I'm encouraged by, although I must admit I'm interested in seeing what happens when the Prodigal Son returns from Europe!

A perfect moderator? John Belden. Wise, quiet, kind, full of knowledge about wine. I think there is hope for that place.

But I think Leve is clearly part of the problem, and -- well, Jim is right that he's nowhere near the main problem over there. But certainly a symptom of what's wrong.

I believe PappaDoc has (had?) the "delete button" here and that was a similarly good choice to appointing Belden over there. Almost invisible moderation, deleting the porn spam etc.

I heard a report about North Korea on the radio -- if someone hears you humming a South Korean song, you can be thrown into a hard labor prison for 9 years. It made me think of the Squires board. I have the habit of not saying anything critical about Mark -- in fact I have met him and he's an intelligent and knowledgeable guy, though opinionated -- partly because I have seen him ban people for things they have said on other boards. I really enjoy posting on the Food Board there and I don't want to be kicked off. Perhaps in the current climate that is less likely to happen?

>>
The idea of him as a moderator, though, is nuts!
>>

Why? As long as he acts reasonably as a moderator, what is the problem with him expressing strong views? Has he ever opined that someone should be thrown off the board for taking issue with what he said? You yourself, Jim, probably flame more than anyone else who posts a lot on BWE.

stefan, still striving for Monster status

Aww Stefan you know I am the kindest person in blogland. Ninety percent of what I say is toungue in cheek, my problem is that many people just don't know when I'm kidding. Moderating is tougher than it looks. I noticed in the last day or two a woman, I forget her name, posted her first message on the Squires board in the social hall thread. She started out making great points, talking about the First Amendment, how moderators should rarely delete, etc., then by the end of her message she started listing all the reasons why she thinks people should be deleted. I still say out of the over 200,000 messages posted on BWE, I think I have deleted probably less than fifteen. As for Jeff Leve, like I said before, i don't have a big problem with him being aggressive, or even arrogant. He has certainly posted a lot of interesting stuff, stuff that genrates commentary. My first reaction is that he would be too argumentative to be an effective moderator, but I'll admit I haven't really followed his moderating over on the Squires site.

Nor have I, Jim; I was asking whether he had suggested (or done) any suppression of "anti Leve" posts. My impression is that he can take it in as well as dish it out, but I don't really know...

stefan

Frank,

The fact that you are comparing eBob to North Korea just shows that you have taken the entire situation way out of proportion.

Rieslingfan wrote:Frank,

The fact that you are comparing eBob to North Korea just shows that you have taken the entire situation way out of proportion.

Not true. Kim Jong Il loves Bordeaux. He would post over there under a pseudonym but it's not allowed. And he would make a great moderator, IMHO.

Was your finger poised on the delete botton for just a second, BD?

Well thanks for the fun guys. I hope you truly enjoy your hollow feeling of moral superiority.

Ciao.

I think we should take a vote:

??? I have no feelings whatsoever. Pun not intended.

ㅡㄷ숭ㅕ ("Gunbae!")



And ciao, David.

I went over to social hall on The Square's board to see what all the fuss is about, but saw that the thread is 36(!) pages long and so quickly closed the page. But I looked at Leve's "Back to Bdx" post on the forum as I enjoy reading his tasting comments even if our tastes are not closely aligned. He considers '08 Latour better than '05 Latour but rates '00 Latour higher than either of these younger wines.

Are people attacking Leve for going to Bordeaux and dining with winemakers?

I also looked at a Weinberg tasting note, which was not much since he reported on a probably damaged wine, but the ensuing thread taught me something about Combottes. Some of the posters on that board know a lot about Burgundy, which is at least ten times more complicated than Bordeaux.

stefan, waiting for Lucie to wake up

Rieslingfan wrote:Frank,

The fact that you are comparing eBob to North Korea just shows that you have taken the entire situation way out of proportion.

Rieslingfan wrote:Well thanks for the fun guys. I hope you truly enjoy your hollow feeling of moral superiority.

Ciao.

Wow, now who is taking the entire situation to seriously.

An ironic and ultimate act of self-censorship. There is no need in this matter for anybody to defend anybody else. I feel some remorse (but I'll get over it) for having popped into this thread to see why it was still going and making a "funny."

stefan wrote:
...Some of the posters on that board know a lot about Burgundy, which is at least ten times more complicated than Bordeaux.

seems you are a "witzbold", stefan.

Rudi

Hi Rudi,

I am very pleased to see you over here on Bordeaux Wine Ethusiasts.

I hope to read your posts often!

All the best,
Alex R.

Thanks, Alex, the pleasure is all mine...

Kim Jong Il is by far the worst dude ever to appear on our site. If anyone should be censored, it's him. Here is the world's most dangerous dictator, downing Napolean cognac while his people starve, as he's preparing to launch a long range missle with who knows what kind of a warhead on top. I think he should be banned... even if he offers to share that fine old cognac with us.

Thanks, Rudi; that's the nicest thing anyone on BWE has ever said about me. I think...

Where in Saarland do you live?

stefan

Hi stefan. I live in Losheim am See around 10 or 12 kilometres away from the first exquisite steep hillsides of the Saar in Serrig. I grew up here and had my first sip of wine, a sweet Riesling, in 1961, but I never became a Riesling fan. I prefer Weißburgunder, Grauburgunder, and Auxerrois. And of course, I’m a red Bordeaux wine enthusiast...

Every few years I go to Oberwolfach for a conference, Rudi, but I have never been to Losheim am See.

stefan

Stefan,

The Burgundy threads are the reason I ever go to Squires board. I don't post, just read. That core group is the most knowledgeable group I've ever read.

I too think Cellar Tracker the best source of what state a wine is in. I get to know who's pallet is similar to mine after a period of time. This helps me select wines I have for drinking, and purchase wines I've been considering, especially wines with 5 plus years on them.

To a lesser degree,(lower number of long time experienced tasters) no way in knowledge, I read the German wine threads on Squires board. I wish David would post here more on German wines than he has done of late, as I put him in the upper tier of German wine enthusiasts I read on various boards.

95% of my reading of comments on Bordeaux wines is right here. I know all of the posters first hand after 9 years, and have been privledged to drink many fine btls of Bordeaux with them.

I'm looking forward to drinking my last btl of 82 Guraud Larose and the gift of 93 Cos (Mr Tangs, 2003 Convention Sunday lunch) from Nic this summer at Jill & Jacques Amazing Pool Party!

Of course the 1989 Bordeaux Dinner will be a Classic BWE Event, and I'm hopeing to attend Jims Maine Fest as well. I'll bring one of my two remaining 1990 Gazins Jim. They are just getting better and better.

Sigh.

http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/sho ... p?t=204379

Thanks for the chuckle, Frank.

Are there really people who want to participate so badly that they subject their posts to the moderator for approval?

stefan

I nominate Jerry from Texas for moderator on the Squires "Bored"

Houndsong wrote:

Rieslingfan wrote:Frank,

The fact that you are comparing eBob to North Korea just shows that you have taken the entire situation way out of proportion.

Not true. Kim Jong Il loves Bordeaux. He would post over there under a pseudonym but it's not allowed. And he would make a great moderator, IMHO.

Very funny Hound!

Riesling Fan, I am convinced that you are a North Korean spy

Apparently they don't have the internet in Europe?