So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

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JimHow
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So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

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Blanquito
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

Celebrate!
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stefan
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

No, but I am also curious about the 2003 because I also have an unopened case of it. Somehow I neglected to buy the 2000.
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JimHow
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

in about 2040?
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Blanquito
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

The 2003 Sociando is drinking pretty well already. Our very own Robert Goulet thinks it is near peak. Given how you like your wine young, you definitely should try one Jim (unless opening the case means all the bottles will be consumed in short order).

Here's my take from 5/4/2015:
I'm drinking the 03 S-M tonight from 375... Lovely stuff, quite expressive, but for my tastes this has plenty left in the tank. Some grape soda, a lovely top note of lavender, and a whiff of caramel which says "2003". Plenty of brightness to go with the ripe fruit. It won't be the longest lived S-M by any means, but there's lots of gritty tannin to resolve and I see upside. So it comes down to how you like your claret, and I prefer my mine longer in the tooth. 92 pts
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Chateau Vin
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Chateau Vin »

I have been having 03 SM once in a while for the past 3 years or so. I wouldn't say that it has entered peak stage, but certainly drinking well. The splits are a different story though IMO, and are certainly at peak window. I had the split last November...
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AKR
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by AKR »

I've got boxes buried too and they are also at the bottom/back of my underground unit. Probably the only reason they remain virgin.

Do any of you think 2003 will be close to the 1990?
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AlexR
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by AlexR »

2000 Sociando Mallet is a controversial wine.

I'm wondering how homogeneous the bottling is.

Some people claim that there is an atrocious herbaceous side to the wine and depise it.
Others think it's wonderful.

Jim, in the interest of science, please open a bottle soon and let us know what you think!

I have one bottle in the cellar....

TIA,
All the best,
Alex
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marcs
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by marcs »

I have had very good experiences with the 2000 SM.

I think some people just don't like Sociando Mallet. This is why all the vintages of SM since 1990 average less than 91 points on Cellartracker. Every time you look at the tasting notes there's a couple of people who are like THIS TASTES LIKE NASTY GREEN PEPPERS. For me, well stored SM always have a nice fruit component, not sloppy but present, and the pyrazines just create a pleasing contrast.
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Blanquito
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

marcs wrote:I have had very good experiences with the 2000 SM.

I think some people just don't like Sociando Mallet. This is why all the vintages of SM since 1990 average less than 91 points on Cellartracker. Every time you look at the tasting notes there's a couple of people who are like THIS TASTES LIKE NASTY GREEN PEPPERS. For me, well stored SM always have a nice fruit component, not sloppy but present, and the pyrazines just create a pleasing contrast.
I concur. Gilman has said that people who don't like (any) pyrazines shouldn't drink Bordeaux.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

'03 before '00.

If you want extra green peppers try the '04.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

I've been blown away by that 2002. I was thinking of buying another case but it looks like it has gotten a bit pricey.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by marcs »

'02 used to be a real bargain vintage but of late prices have been creeping upward. It has stopped me from reloading on my futures purchases which are gradually getting drunk down. The word must be getting out!

I have found 2000 to be quite accessible now, I'd be checking it out. The 2005 is really good too, I think clearly better than the 2000 or the 1996 (the other vintages I know pretty well).
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

2005 D'Armailhac is very good for drinking now with steak. That is what Lucie and I are doing tonight.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

Wow! That must be like the youngest Bordeaux you have ever drunk!
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Blanquito
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

stefan wrote:2005 D'Armailhac is very good for drinking now with steak. That is what Lucie and I are doing tonight.
I enjoyed a half bottle of this in September. Young but accessible.

And much better than the 2000, I would add!
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

2005 Medoc.... Young Bordeux. Now you are coming around Stefan. I knew you would, eventually.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JCNorthway »

I have not had the 2005, but I have enjoyed a couple of bottles of the 2000.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

I have never feared the vaunted "green streak" of wines like Sociando Mallet, Pichon Lalande, or even the occasional notes we see from Lagrange, Leoville Barton, or even Lynch… Or other. I actually love that "Sociando Green" trait.
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Blanquito
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

JimHow wrote:I have never feared the vaunted "green streak" of wines like Sociando Mallet, Pichon Lalande, or even the occasional notes we see from Lagrange, Leoville Barton, or even Lynch… Or other. I actually love that "Sociando Green" trait.
To a point, I've come to prize the green streak. It is refreshing and usually gives the wine a real verve. Plus, it mellows with enough age assuming the wine the requisite materials to go the distance.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

Jim, I have always considered D'Armailhac and Haut-Batailley to be the earliest maturing of the classified Pauillacs. Also, for the last ten+ years I have stored most of my young Bdx at closer to 66F than 55F.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

stefan wrote:Jim, I have always considered D'Armailhac and Haut-Batailley to be the earliest maturing of the classified Pauillacs. Also, for the last ten+ years I have stored most of my young Bdx at closer to 66F than 55F.
Have you ever compared the same wine stored long term at ~55 vs. ~65, Bill?
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

Good question, Patrick. The answer is that I have not done this blind or with bottles that I bought at the same time and stored at different temperatures. I have tasted wine from bottles that were stored at different temperatures by different collectors and were bought at approximately the same time. My impression is that generally the wines stored at higher temperatures were further along. In old wines the difference seems to be greater; wines stored at a low temperature seem younger and fresher. But of course this is what one expects and that could have influenced my perception.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by robertgoulet »

I am really enjoying 2003....I have tasted it three times in the last 8 months...I have two left that I am trying to hold off on, it's difficult....the struggle is real.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by DavidG »

Blanquito wrote:
stefan wrote:Jim, I have always considered D'Armailhac and Haut-Batailley to be the earliest maturing of the classified Pauillacs. Also, for the last ten+ years I have stored most of my young Bdx at closer to 66F than 55F.
Have you ever compared the same wine stored long term at ~55 vs. ~65, Bill?
I've done (almost) this. My father and I bought a few cases of 1983 Prieure Lichine together on release from the same store (Zachys) in 1986. Mine went right into 55F temp-controlled storage. His went into his basement in NJ, which varied from 65F in winter to 72F in summer. I inherited his in 1991, after 5 years of passive storage, and thereafter stored it in my temp-controlled cellar. I did a few blind and not-blind side-by-side tastings over the years. The bottles stored at the higher temps did show more advanced and started to decline sooner than those in temp-controlled storage all along. They weren't bad or heat-damaged in any way that would have made me think they were flawed, but by 20 years they were showing more tired. Did they reach the same peaks, but just years apart? Hard to say, I'm not that objective and precise from week to week let alone year to year. If only I had a time machine...

A less-controlled comparison between 1988 Climens purchased on release in 1991, some purchased in 2012 from Hart Davis Hart and some purchased in 2013 from Macarthurs, both of whom claimed "perfect storage" told an interesting tale. There was a clearly visible difference in color, with the purchased-on-release bottles lightest, the HDH bottles very slightly darker, and the Macarthur bottles obviously darker. Looked at in isolation, the color of the Macarthur bottles didn't seem out of place or too advanced for a 25-year-old Sauternes, but the difference was obvious side-by-side. Tasted on its own, the Macarthur bottles ranged from good to excellent, but the best, even though they had no discernible oxidative notes, never reached the heights of those bought on release or the HDH bottles. However, I never compared these blind, so I may have tasted what I was expecting to taste.

My conclusion from all of this is that wine is reasonably tough, and will age well even at temps into the high 60s/low 70s, but it will age faster than wine stored at lower temps. No surprise there. Do higher temps blunt the peak that can be achieved with aging? I don't think my experience can answer that question. It didn't seem so with the Prieure Lichine. It did with the Climens but there was no way to know how that wine had really been treated along the way. This does give me pause about purchasing older bottles, even though I've had stellar experiences with them from time to time. When they don't live up to the hype, I'm often left wondering "what would this be like if I'd been cellaring it since release?"

I think the assumption is that Stefan's wines at 66F will mature faster and reach their drinking window sooner than if kept at 55F. My experience is consistent with that.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by marcs »

Great post DavidG.

At almost 50 I feel like I have aged out of the purchase at release market for Bordeaux -- I have much greater appreciation now for just how long it take Bdx to reach full maturity. So I am backfilling a lot, particularly on the 2000-2010 vintages. Hoping those are recent enough that I won't have issues with storage but when it comes to the secondary market there's always that doubt in the back of your mind. I have had mixed experiences. It's an incredible crap shoot, I feel like there is really no way to assure provenance unless you buy at auction from a described and well attested cellar -- not a 'Midwestern gentleman' type thing but someone with a specific name who you can independently confirm as a rich guy with a great cellar. I only bought once from a cellar like that, I got some 1980s low level premier cru Cotes de Beaune and they were terrific. Made me thing that for multi-decade old wine provenance can be more important than the wine you are buying!
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by DavidG »

Dont give up yet, Marcus. I stopped buying young Bordeaux last year at age 59 and Stefan, who is going to live forever, chides me about it.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

Yes, David, a young whippersnapper such as yourself should not stop buying Bordeaux.

And thanks for the info about comparisons of wines stored at different temperatures.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

I am stopping buying new vintages of Bordeaux next month when I turn 45. I have something like 20 years of wine in the cellar right now.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Blanquito »

David, your post sounds like really good news to me-- 65F storage gets you as high a peak as 55F, but in significantly less time. I have too much young wine right now, so 65F is tempting, but what I really need are two cellars, one at 65 and one at 55, because shifting to 65F only would suddenly give me too much mature wine.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

Wow, Patrick! 8,000+ bottles of wine! Can I come visit?

But that is not enough. You can still appreciate, or at least enjoy, wine past age 65.

Patrick, that is exactly why I put in a wine closet. A few years ago I reset the temperature in my main wine room after which my coldest storage was at about 63F for most of the year. The closet I can keep at 50F or lower if I want. Right now it is set at 55F, which means the coldest part is 52-54.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

I don't know about giving up on cellaring in your fifties. From what I gather "well-stored" winos in their fifties are quite likely to live into their 90s. 90s are probably going to suck to a certain degree--now imagine them without a 30 or 40 year old Bordeaux.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by JimHow »

I'm 57. I'm still planning on buying new vintages for a few more years.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by DavidG »

I figure by my 90s my palate will be so shot I'll need young high-octane California cabs and zins to taste anything. Aged Bordeaux would be lost on me. That is if I make it to 90 and still remember if the wine goes in my mouth or in my ear.

Jim you can really enjoy young Bordeaux more than me so it makes sense to keep buying.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by stefan »

David, suppose that you still have your taste at age 90 but have run out of Bordeaux. Can you imagine doing a lot of buying at that age? Even if you can do the buying, what about hauling the wines in and storing them? It is much better to have too much wine than too little.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by AKR »

Had a bottle of the 2003 tonight with a summer supper -- it's excellent.

If someone was backfilling S-M vintages, that would be the one I would personally suggest.
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I have two cases of 1996 Sociando Mallet in bond. I bought three cases and really struggled with the first case, in which most bottles were disappointing, recalcitrant mean and green, albeit a bit on the young side. The 1996 trades at a 30% premium to the 2003 in the UK, so I figure it will be almost a no-brainer to sell a case of 1996 to fund a case purchase of 2003 (in spite of my unrequited love for 1996 left banks and my perennial suspicion of the 2003 vintage.)
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Re: So I have a case of 2000 and 2003 Sociando Mallet. Advice?

Post by robertgoulet »

sell some to me?? thats some good advice right there!!
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