2015: what are you buying?

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Comte Flaneur
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2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I know we have had similar discussions elsewhere. I am getting hopelessly sucked into the vortex of excitement surrounding this vintage, and have been buying.

So the conventional wisdom is that is a strong all round vintage, and the 'best since 2010' - the conventional wisdom is that it doesn't quite have the power of ten, the opulence of nine or the mid-palate stuffing of the 0-fives. That is probably a crass over-simplification.

But what these wines seem to have is some freshness and lift as we move further into the post-Parker era. Estates like Pape Clement are dialling it down, going for more verve and finesse. I like that.

The Beychevelle I read is a more lifted less dense version of the 2005. I like that. That Lillian Barton fashioned a wine of breath-taking quality does not surprise me in the slightest. That Rauzan-Segla probably made their greatest ever wine does not either.

In the UK the trade put a lot of pressure in the Bordelais not to price their wines at silly levels. I think that has worked by and large. So you have a great vintage which is generally reasonably priced. Here the wines are selling but they are hardly blowing the (bloody) doors off.

I have bought the following in time order:

Pape Clement rouge
Beychevelle
Leoville-Barton
Rauzan-Segla

On my hit list I have

Smith Haut-Lafitte rouge
Haut-Bailly
Pichon Lalande

Plus perhaps one or two right banks.

This will be the last vintage I ever buy as futures. I swear. May as well go out with a flourish.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

I'm going to pull the trigger on a case of Giscours, and that will be about it for prearrivals.
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Blanquito
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Blanquito »

(So far)
Siran

(Might get)
Du Tertre
Beychevelle
Cantemerle
Lanessan

(Others?)

Should be a light futures year for me as I am mostly done with these...
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stefan
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by stefan »

So far I have bought

.....
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by jckba »

Thus far I have bought nada, though, there's a good chance that that streak will come to an end tomorrow as the 2015 Clinet is being released ... but the question as is always the case with futures is at what price?
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AKR
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by AKR »

Canon seems to have blipped through very fast, and most were unlikely to get shown any.

I have a hard time believing most of the wines that are being offered to the hoi polloi will really end up beating their purchase price + accumulated CPI when it comes time to consume them.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by jckba »

As predicted, I picked up a case of the 2015 Clinet this morning from Total Wine for $79.97/per and the kicker is that they only require 50% payment up front :D

Also, I was just browsing the Wine Spectator website and came across the 2015 Bordeaux:Wine Futures Prices and Analysis web feature, and if you scroll down to the chart they compiled, it shows Molesworth's 2015 barrel score, the 2015 first tranche pricing compared to the 2014 first tranche pricing and to the current price of the 2010''s. The more I look at it, the more tempted I become ...
Last edited by jckba on Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Go for it jcba!

I just added D'Issan to my list.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Claudius2 »

I'm just watching the price lists and may buy a few value options.
These days I am loath to buy wines that need 20 yrs in the cellar.
So my thought is to buy a few good value St Emilions and maybe a few Margaux and St Julien wines.

Prices so far are reasonable, and the lower value of the Euro (compared to Sing $) is making the middle ranked wines look reasonable value.
I DO however have a lot of 09 and 10 Bordeaux, not to mention older vintages, thus I am being conservative.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I have added Haut-Bailly and Franc Mayne, an off the radar traditional St-Emilion I have a soft spot for. I am looking for a Pomerol to add because most of the critics agree it was one of the strongest appellations. On my list are Clos Du Clocher and L'Eglise Clinet, rated 94 and 95 respectively by Jeff Leve, both going for reasonable prices. Some other Pomerols are way out of reach. Even Certan De May was released at £800ib here. Ouch.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

I just pulled the trigger on six bottles of 2015 Giscours.

What's this Tour St. Christophe stuff?
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Jeff Leve »

JimHow wrote:I just pulled the trigger on six bottles of 2015 Giscours.

What's this Tour St. Christophe stuff?
You know, there is this invention called Google :mrgreen: But to save you the trouble, as you've become such a Right Bank lover recently... http://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/bor ... eaux-wine/
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Comte Flaneur wrote:I have added Haut-Bailly and Franc Mayne, an off the radar traditional St-Emilion I have a soft spot for. I am looking for a Pomerol to add because most of the critics agree it was one of the strongest appellations. On my list are Clos Du Clocher and L'Eglise Clinet, rated 94 and 95 respectively by Jeff Leve, both going for reasonable prices. Some other Pomerols are way out of reach. Even Certan De May was released at £800ib here. Ouch.
Ian... That's Clos l'Eglise that hit 95 Pts. L'Eglise Clinet, which is 98 Pts is not out yet. Clos du Clocher is the best wine they have ever produced!
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

Chateau Tour St. Christophe -- of which I have never heard before -- is going for $25 at MacArthur's. Seems like a bargain!
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Harry C.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Harry C. »

Anticipate zero. Why? My age and their price, and 2010 and earlier are easily obtained.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Jeff Leve wrote:
Comte Flaneur wrote:I have added Haut-Bailly and Franc Mayne, an off the radar traditional St-Emilion I have a soft spot for. I am looking for a Pomerol to add because most of the critics agree it was one of the strongest appellations. On my list are Clos Du Clocher and L'Eglise Clinet, rated 94 and 95 respectively by Jeff Leve, both going for reasonable prices. Some other Pomerols are way out of reach. Even Certan De May was released at £800ib here. Ouch.
Ian... That's Clos l'Eglise that hit 95 Pts. L'Eglise Clinet, which is 98 Pts is not out yet. Clos du Clocher is the best wine they have ever produced!
Jeff my mistake. I actually meant Clos L'Eglise I am interested in, not L'Eglise Clinet. The former is very reasonably priced over here - the latter I would imagine would be out if my league price wise.

Interested that the Clos Du Clocher did so well. It is very attractively priced - I guess it has been somewhat prosaic in the past so may be a case of prices lagging the quality improvement?
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Antoine »

Managed to get 3 Canon and decided to buy 6 Rauzan Segla as a thank you to the dealer. Am too old to go much further.
Ref Pomerol, have read La Cabanne, a usually mediocre Pomerol, has done very well and is dirt cheap. What is your take?

Ref Margaux, I remember they also performed in 2005... seems they need great vintages to shine?
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Jeff Leve
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Comte Flaneur wrote:
Jeff Leve wrote:
Comte Flaneur wrote:I have added Haut-Bailly and Franc Mayne, an off the radar traditional St-Emilion I have a soft spot for. I am looking for a Pomerol to add because most of the critics agree it was one of the strongest appellations. On my list are Clos Du Clocher and L'Eglise Clinet, rated 94 and 95 respectively by Jeff Leve, both going for reasonable prices. Some other Pomerols are way out of reach. Even Certan De May was released at £800ib here. Ouch.
Ian... That's Clos l'Eglise that hit 95 Pts. L'Eglise Clinet, which is 98 Pts is not out yet. Clos du Clocher is the best wine they have ever produced!
Jeff my mistake. I actually meant Clos L'Eglise I am interested in, not L'Eglise Clinet. The former is very reasonably priced over here - the latter I would imagine would be out if my league price wise.

Based on the wines you like, is Clos L'Eglise a wine you follow? I would not have thought so.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I have had few encounters with it Jeff and certainly don't follow it like, say, La Conseillante, which I have been following devoutly for 25 years. The couple of times I have encountered it I have liked it and didn't find it overblown - as you know I have an old fashioned British palate. Other critics like the 2015 too, and it is priced very keenly here. Plus the fact that production is only 1000 cases? Seems like an interesting punt. I have never been excited by Clos Du Clocher, which is also keenly priced, so will be out of these two. If money was less of an object I would go for Lafleur-Petrus every time. I loved the 2012 - everything I look for in a Pomerol...but the price...

While we have your attention what do you feel about pricing so far in this vintage? Seems like Baron and Lynch have been quite aggressive. Otherwise prices have been quite restrained from what I see...
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

I just ordered 3 bottles each of these 2015s:

3 2015 Chateau Smith Haut Lafitte Pessac 750ml (Future) 68347 $82.00 $246.00
3 2015 Chateau Tour St Christophe St Emilion 750ml (Future) 68353 $25.00 $75.00
3 2015 Chateau Rauzan Segla Margaux 750ml (Future) 68346 $75.00 $225.00
3 2015 Chateau Pape Clement Pessac 750ml (Future) 68340 $81.00 $243.00
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Chateau Vin »

Comte Flaneur wrote:.
.
.
Seems like Baron and Lynch have been quite aggressive. Otherwise prices have been quite restrained from what I see...
I too am surprised by such aggressive pricing by Baron and Lynch...
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Jeff Leve »

Comte Flaneur wrote:I have had few encounters with it Jeff and certainly don't follow it like, say, La Conseillante, which I have been following devoutly for 25 years. The couple of times I have encountered it I have liked it and didn't find it overblown - as you know I have an old fashioned British palate.


My guess, knowing what you like and don't, it is a bit oaky and modern for you. But if you have tried the wine in other ripe vintages and like it, their wines are always fairly priced.

If money was less of an object I would go for Lafleur-Petrus every time.

If money were no object, I'd buy Lafleur! 2012 is a cooler vintage than 2015, but the wine is in the same style, so if you liked 2012, you'll be fine.

While we have your attention what do you feel about pricing so far in this vintage? Seems like Baron and Lynch have been quite aggressive. Otherwise prices have been quite restrained from what I see...


Most of the wines seem fair, based on their level of quality, cost of equal scoring back vintages and current level of demand. But there are some prices on both ends of the spectrum that seem silly to me. Regarding Lynch, from what I hear, every buyer has written or voiced complaints to their negociants about the high price and they asked from an increased allocation of the wine at the same time. Wines that sell mean the property got it right! Other wines, like Clinet, Canon, Rauzan Segla, Smith and countless Right Bank wines are steals for wines of that level of quality. How people are not picking up wines like Tour St. Christophe at $25 per by the case is beyond me. It's $25! There are no other wines in the world that good that sell for such little money. But I know the owners and director and they are building a brand.

At the moderate levels, lets say in the $100 park, give or take, when you consider prices for all the other world class wines with the ability to age and evolve for decades, the price point for 2015 Bordeaux seems more than competitive IMO.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Yes I agree with that Jeff. One line of reasoning I have been employing is that if Haut-Bailly and SHL are close to the 09s then at 40 % of the price they are quite compelling. I have bought quite a lot mainly left banks, so am looking to balance out a bit with right banks...I guess the other estate where you can't go wrong in Pomerol is Gazin, again very well priced.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Antoine »

Between Chevalier 52€, Smith H L 70€ and Ht Bailly 77€ which seems to you the better deal?
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Antoine »

Just went with Jeff recommendation and took 3 Tour St Christophe added to my 3 Canon and my 6 Rauzan Segla. A TOTAL of 12 bottles 6 left and 6 right.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by AKR »

Sounds like you picked up some of the best regarded names.

I'm left a little amazed by the extent of the price hikes.

It seems to me that there is more obvious value (for the consumer) in 2008 and 2012 vintages.

Perhaps those purchasing for 'investment value' would prefer the glamor vintages, but I'm not convinced that 2015 will slotted into that.

If its a really a right bank vintage -- like 1998 -- those don't have a track record of that much price appreciation, compared to ones where great wines are made on both sides of the river.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Antoine »

I was talking to a British merchant this morning and he held the theory that Bordeaux was punishing them with high prices because they had complained about the 2014 vintage and added the volumes released were minuscule so the better wines were sold out in minutes while the rest did not move because of the prices. So gloom and doom.
I reassured him telling him prices were even slightly higher in France so it was nothing personal towards UK.

Ref my purchase, I have too much wine so have not bought Bordeaux for many years but I thought it was my last opportunity as I am 62 so picked some highly praised wines at almost decent prices
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by greatbxfreak »

I'm 70 this year and simply can't stop buying. Saying that, it will be last primeur buys for sure.

2 btl. Ch. Margaux
3 btl. Pichon Comtesse
3 btl. Montrose
2 btl. Giscours
2 btl. S.H.Lafitte
2 btl. Haut Bailly

Maybe 1 bottle of LLC and T.Mondot too. Will check my supplier for Tour St. Christophe.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by DavidG »

There are 3 numbers that are too high for me to be even remotely interested in 2015 Bdx:

1) My age
2) My Bordeaux inventory
3) Their prices
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by RPCV »

On the sidelines this vintage as well...for a few reasons; I have enough bordeaux, prices seem a bit high and the quality of 2012 is very good. In fact, I'd say the last point is really what is keeping me from buying 2015 en premier. There '12's I have consumed are really good; Fleur Cardinale, Marlatic Lagraviere, Haut Bailly and Domaine de Chevalier have all been damn good. And, the quality to price ratio can't be beat. So, I'll wait to taste the '14's in bottle and selectively pick up a few more '12's in the mean time. Barde Haut 2012 is on the radar.....Jim strikes again...
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Nicklasss »

En primeur sale is not started yet here. I don't know why it is so long. I want to buy some, as i did not bought 2013-2014.

I agree with RPCV, the 2012 Chateau Malartic Lagravière is very nice and very classic. Not the greatest, but i'm more and more interested in these good vintages as the prices are ok, and need to wait not so long to have some evolution.

Nic
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AKR
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by AKR »

how hard is it to get the wines on release up there, Nic? perhaps patience will be rewarded.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Blanquito »

Hmmm, I see half bottles of the 2015 Sociando Mallet for $17 and halves of the 2014 are only $14. Incidentally, Neal Martin is higher on the 14 S-M.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Seanman »

Canon! (got a hold of a case at at $85 a bottle thanks to the wonderful folks (Nick) at Sothebeys - I was told by Sothebeys this is one of the best wines of the entire vintage
Beychevelle, Saint Julien
Carbonnieux, Rouge, Pessac Leognan
Larcis Ducasse, Saint Emilion

Next year, if I buy futures I am going to purchase everything through Sothebeys. They seem to be far more knowledgeable than others.

I cannot imagine paying some of these massive prices. $685 for Cheval Blanc? Hope it comes with a hot bellydancer.

Great website! This is my first post. You all are very informative. I have enjoyed reading your many comments....
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JimHow
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

Welcome to BWE Seanman!
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DavidG
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by DavidG »

Welcome and well done! Excellent job on the Canon.
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Gerry M.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by Gerry M. »

With Total Wine finally opening stores in Mass and their very attractive futures program I feel myself being drawn to jumping into futures for the first time. The following are what I'm considering right now. I'm thinking of picking up 3 750's and 2 375's each of whatever I settle on. Are any of these you would recommend passing on and waiting for release? I'm not sure I'm ready to jump at everyone on the wish list.

Smith Haut Lafitte
Pape Clement
Domaine de Chevalier
Giscours
Brane-Cantenac
Rauzan-Segla
Montrose
Tour St. Christophe(?)
Clos L'Eglise
Clinet
Beycheville
Leoville Poyferre
Lagrange
Leoville Barton

With the exception of the Ch. Tour St. Christophe all the choices are from Total Wine. The prices are competitive and I will be able to pick up locally versus dealing with shipping. The Ch. Tour St. Christophe I plan to order a case from Table and Vine fro $20/btl.

Any thoughts?

Sorry for the typo on Tour St Joseph, I meant Tour St Christophe
Last edited by Gerry M. on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

I may be the only one here who has ever had the Tour St. Joe. The 1998, decent wine, met expectations.
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by tiesface »

Sucked in for the 2nd year in a row. So far:

18x Pichon Lalande
24x Leoville Barton
24x Grand Puy Lacoste
Considering Pontet Canet, Lynch?

I haven't had the opportunity to buy many previous vintages EP/upon release (I'm only 29), so I see some value in '14-'15 compared to back vintages.

Also - my first post here. Seems like a great place - hope you guys have room for a young buck!
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Re: 2015: what are you buying?

Post by JimHow »

Welcome aboard tiesface!
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