Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

My friend who introduced me to '80s Bordeaux has just offered me a bottle of '86 Mouton and a bottle of '86 Margaux.
Price TBD, but I'm sure it will be well below market.

I've been telling him I'll take a portion of my payment in trade - for upcoming work he wants me to do.
So today he stopped by to drop off two projects and announced that he has those two available.

I also want more of some that he traded to me a couple years ago, like '86 Talbot, '86 Gruaud Larose, '86 Rauzan Segla, '82 Prieure-Lichine, and maybe '83 Cos d'Estournel.
He said make a list. I know he has others I like, and some he hasn't mentioned yet.
The last couple of cases cost me $400 in labor charges, which I thought was a sweet deal.
With two First Growths from a great year included, I know my case price will be a lot higher, but I don't think I'll have another opportunity like this.

Current Cellartracker Value is roughly $600 & $400 respectively.
Anybody know what these bottles cost on release?

For the Margaux, I paid $50 a bottle on futures. I didn't buy the Mouton on futures but I think it was about the same price. I think the Mouton is a better wine than the Margaux. Talbot and Rausan Segla were both great in 1986 - liked both of them more than Margaux.

Chris Bublitz

IIRC I think Jim rates 86 Mouton as a 100 point wine....

Chateau vin, Jim who? Uncomplete source is not helpful.

Nic

Listen to Chris B.

I had an '84 Margaux from his cellar 2 years ago. It was good but not great. I would hope the '86 shows better.
This is probably my only opportunity to own/consume first growth wines from any vintage.

I'll see if my friend agrees to a value of $650 for a mixed case including the two 1sts, a few more classified growth bottles, and some good Cru Bourgeois, all from the '80s. Even if he says $750 I'm ok with that.
It's quite a bargain for me, and a good markup for him.

If the Margaux 86 is a good bottle it could even eclipse the Mouton. Both these 1986s remain very backward. I have had them both in the last year.

I've tasted the 86 Mouton at least twice. Once magnificent, once tannic after extended decanting and not too thrilling. Both bottles were purchased at the same time and cellared in a cool, passive cellar. My $02 YMMV

I don't know if this applies to the highest level wines, but my friend told me the importer makes a big difference in the quality of the wine in bottle.
According to him, certain importers have special relationships with the Chateaux and make sure the cases they receive are only filled from the best barrels.

The 86 Margaux was probably the most backward wine at the big 86 horizontal in 2008 with the LLC the only other one giving it any competition for inscrutability.

I don't think I understand the meaning of "backward" in this context.
I've been reading the tasting notes of both wines on CT, and see it mentioned about both.

Jeff Leve says the Mouton still needs more cellar time.

I guess I see two main possibilities. One is a wine like the 86 Mouton which is tremendously enjoyable now but will probably keep getting better and better over the next two decades+. The other is or was the 86 Margaux which actually seemed shutdown or in hiding in 2008. I found it bone dry and not showing much but tons of tannins and dry extract. As such, it was much harder to really evaluate (for me).

if you're getting those wines for $400-$600 per case, no matter what the mix is, its a huge discount to what current market values are. and if you know the storage that's even better, and worth something more. market values essentially include some discount for the risk of cooked wine. one reason why the really good provenance stuff from well known collectors, and careful auction houses, commands a warranted premium.

AKR wrote:if you're getting those wines for $400-$600 per case, no matter what the mix is, its a huge discount to what current market values are. and if you know the storage that's even better, and worth something more. market values essentially include some discount for the risk of cooked wine. one reason why the really good provenance stuff from well known collectors, and careful auction houses, commands a warranted premium.

I looked up all the values as soon as I had the bottles in hand and was quite excited by the size of my "discount".
At the high end I had a 1988 Rayas CdP, and the '84 Margaux. The low end included an '86 Potensac, '86 Meyney, '88 & '89 Haut Marbuzet.

I know he bought them in NYC on release, and paid close to wholesale since he was working for the retailer. What he got from me was roughly 2x what he paid on average.
I don't think he would have offered them in trade if he didn't believe the value he was receiving (from the work I did) was also higher than the price.

He told me his storage was less than ideal for some of the time, but for the most part the labels have been in good condition, and no issues with the capsules or corks - apart from some crumbling during removal.
Most of what I've already had from his cellar was fine, none had gone bad while in cellar, and none seemed too far past their prime.
So far the bottle of '86 Talbot was the best Bordeaux wine I've ever had.
The most disappointing bottle from him was a 1990 Caymus Special Selection, which had come from someone else's collection. It was corked.

Negotiations have begun.

Last week my friend asked me to email him a list of wines I wanted to make up a case, including the two '86 firsts.
Along with my list I suggested $650 as a fair trade price for the lot.

He replied with a suggestion that 50% of current retail for the two would leave only $50 to pay for the rest.

My counter-reply explained how I had arrived at $650, by adding $250 to the previous trade price.
I mentioned the thought that the two were priced around $50 on release.
And finished my email with a suggestion of $800 for the case.
We have a good relationship and I don't want to press too hard.
If he wants to push for more $$ I may drop the Mouton as its already getting too rich for my blood.

My case list was something like this:
'89 Haut Marbuzet
'88 Haut Marbuzet
'86 Les Ormes de Pez
'86 Margaux
'86 Mouton Rothschild
'86 Meyney
'86 Talbot
'86 Potensac
'86 Rausan Segla
'86 Gruaud Larose
'82 Prieure Lichine
'81 Haut Bailly

I also said he could substitute something else, and that I haven't had any Pauillac wines yet.
More '82s would be ok with me.
I don't know much about what's in his cellar, although I think he's said it's mostly more vintages from the same chateaux.

Well done Chris but don't concede on the 86 Mouton!!

Known provenance, if anything, is worth a premium.

Would you rather buy a used car from someone you know? or from an internet ad?