St-Julien pecking order

[Racer Chris]

...
In fact, there is no estate in Saint Julien whatsoever in the Cru Bourgeois classification.

All the best,
Alex

I think that Chateau Lalande would be a Cru Bourgeois if they so desired.

[AKR]

I have not had the Clos du Marquis bottling in many vintages, perhaps 10-15 years, so no sense for how it is now.

How would folks slot them into the general consensus? It seems like lists are similar, with maybe some variance around Poyferre, L.Barton, and Gruaud.

[JoelD]

Every bottle of Leoville Poyferre that I've had has been great. Other than a flawed 1996. I just had the 1989 on the 4th of July and it was everything I want in an 80's Bordeaux. I'll do a writeup later. Also very impressed by the 2003 and 2004. I also like the 2000 a lot, beastly wine though. The 2010 is one of my epiphany wines, at least on the nose. I didn't know that a wine could smell like that. But I understand that that they've modernized. I just personally get more enjoyment from them than even Leoville Barton, but Las Cases is the clear best of the Leovilles.

1. Leoville-Lascases
2. Ducru Beaucaillou
3. Léoville-Poyferré
4. Leoville Barton
5. Gruaud Larose
6. Beychevelle
7. Branaire Ducru
8. Talbot
9. Langoa-Barton
10. Lagrange
11. St-Pierre
12. Gloria

[Harry C.]

Claudius, one factor not mentioned in your DB late 80s summary is that they KNEW there was a problem and did nothing for the consumer who purchased the bad wine. I will not buy/have not bought DB since.

[marcs]

Every bottle of Leoville Poyferre that I've had has been great. Other than a flawed 1996. I just had the 1989 on the 4th of July and it was everything I want in an 80's Bordeaux. I'll do a writeup later. Also very impressed by the 2003 and 2004. I also like the 2000 a lot, beastly wine though. The 2010 is one of my epiphany wines, at least on the nose. I didn't know that a wine could smell like that. But I understand that that they've modernized. I just personally get more enjoyment from them than even Leoville Barton, but Las Cases is the clear best of the Leovilles.

1. Leoville-Lascases
2. Ducru Beaucaillou
3. Léoville-Poyferré
4. Leoville Barton
5. Gruaud Larose
6. Beychevelle
7. Branaire Ducru
8. Talbot
9. Langoa-Barton
10. Lagrange
11. St-Pierre
12. Gloria

I have always been unimpressed by Leoville Poyferre, with possibly the exception of the 2005. For me that heavy modern quality really doesn’t leave a lot of room for what I like most about Bordeaux

But I realize I’m an outlier in this convo, not liking Leoville Barton that much either

[AKR]

I got the sense that Poyferre started changing after the 1996 vintage. 1998 was where it really stuck out to me.

[Musigny 151]

I (used to think) think Leoville-Poyferre sucks.

Not in an absolute sense. But relative to the two other Leovilles.

The terroir is not inferior to Las Cases, just the winemaking.

[Musigny 151]

I would switch Ducru and Las Cases, but otherwise I like your current list.

[Claudius2]

Claudius, one factor not mentioned in your DB late 80s summary is that they KNEW there was a problem and did nothing for the consumer who purchased the bad wine. I will not buy/have not bought DB since.

Harry
Yes I agree - a better solution could have been to make the wine offsite or not bottle and/or sell any wine known to be tainted. You could reasonably expect the estate to taken some action before 5 dud vintages. Though they were punished in both the press and in relation to price for some time.

So I haven’t bought much of it in recent years but at the same time the price here is too high. I did buy a case of the 1995 and a few 2006’s but nothing since. Similarly I have not bought much GL since the 1990 vintage though I did buy a case of the 2005.

Cheers
Mark

[stefan]

1. Ducru Beaucaillou
2. Leoville-Las-Cases
4. Leoville Barton
5. Leoville-Poyferre
6. Gruaud Larose
7. Branaire Ducru
8. Talbot
9. Beychevelle
10. Lagrange
11. St-Pierre
12. Gloria
13. Langoa-Barton

[Claudius2]

Marcs
Lagrange is arguably too far from the river to produce wine in the very highest category.
The soil isn’t as well drained and is heavier than say, DB or the Leoville.

I did think that 1990 was the best wine from this estate that I’ve tried and did compete with some of the big boys. I drank a few 2015s a year or two ago (purchased from the airport duty free for half price) which was pretty good but in a modern, rather commercial style. I did buy some 2016 and 2019 on en primeur so I hope they turn out well.

Cheers
Mark

[Comte Flaneur]

Mark I suspect that 2016 and 2019 are the best wines Lagrange ever made … this is based on tasting the ‘16 twice and reliable reports on the ‘19

[Musigny 151]

I have done a few verticals. The old winemaker Marcel Ducasse transformed the property when the owner of Suntory purchased the property in the mid eighties. It has been an evolution there, and from those years, the 1996 may be the standout. Similar young to the 2016 I tasted. When it is bright and not overly ripe, it is a really good value. Just finished my half bottles of 2004, great wine.

I think Beychevelle bears discussing. For most years, it has been a light, intense wine with a lot of fragrance, now it is garnering higher scores, but doesn’t seem to have the same signature. I used to buy most years, I have not bought any since 2009.

[Ognik]

Lagrange 1976 last month was fine.
Beychevelle 2019 thumbs up.
Love this chateau since 80s. One of me initial bordeaux encounters. Soft spot.

[Comte Flaneur]

I have Beychevelle high up on my list at #5 based on old and young vintages.

[Claudius2]

Mark I suspect that 2016 and 2019 are the best wines Lagrange ever made … this is based on tasting the ‘16 twice and reliable reports on the ‘19

Ian
I have both the 16 and 19 so I trust that they will be excellent wines with time.

The 2019 Beychevelle is also the best wine I’ve tried from this estate since the 80’s but I think I’m getting old when I say that…

Cheers
Mark

[AKR]

conventional cork, over a couple of days

2015 du Glana [St Julien] This is a polite medium weight, 14% abv higher acid St Julien. I had it over a couple of days, and being open didn't seem to change it much, so perhaps its at a plateau for consumption. It was better with a few chunks of cheese, though. To me, the nose shows clay and blood with red fruits on the palate. The blend here is generally 60% CS with the balance merlot, and if not precisely that in 2015, is generally in that proportion. I find this St Julien to be likable, enjoyable but not memorable. This is one of the few unclassified properties left in its commune, so I'd expect over time that sheer economics^ will end its grapes being bottled up under their own label. Their plot is between Talbot and Lagrange, and I actually thought to myself that this has a little bit of the elegant Lagrange like red fruit/acid aspect. For now, I'll slot this into the B to B+ zone on my scorecard. This is the first bottle from a case, so I hope it settles in on the higher end of enjoyment as more bottles are opened.

^Some BWE might remember La Behere, an unclassified Pauillac, that was eventually sold to Mouton so that outcome is not so far fetched. Although du Glana's Meffre ownership might have deeper pockets and more ambition; Gigondas fans might be familiar with that family, and their commercial practices.