Rimmerman on BDX15

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AKR
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Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

Now its true he's hawking some, but ignore that -- I've snipped most of that out anyways -- and read his other comments on the vintage

==============

The Bordeaux futures market can seem like an unsettling quagmire but it’s really quite simple: Is the wine worth paying for in advance?

“Yes” is not always the answer - more often than not (especially recently, post-2000 vintage) the risk of separation from your hard-earned $ versus the advantage gained by doing so up to 2-3 years in advance has not bred any sort of widespread windfall (except for your tasting stem, of course). That does not mean a well-timed stash of 2001, 2005, 2008 or 2009/2010 cannot bring sound investment, quite the opposite (2001/2008 may have been the best investment of all – relatively unheralded but they have/will stand the test of time and should eclipse their more famous brethren as far as percentage of net gain is concerned – in your wallet and on your palate).

What if we had a vintage that (potentially) provides for both investing and consuming on a wider and more global level than vintages such as the classically-toned 2001/2008’s?

What if that vintage just happened to time one of the more bizarre currency fluctuations in en-premier history?

What if the wines were actually worth paying for 2-3 years in advance?

We may have a winner with 2015.

What many/most of you do not realize is that we’ve always traded in Bordeaux futures we just don’t make a big public proclamation of the whole thing. I do it mostly as a favor to those that ask as there isn’t any real substantive business reason for us to do so (but that’s not always the motivating factor at Garagiste). What I do have is contacts and guarantees of exemplary/mint/exquisite provenance and my guess is that more than a few cases you’ve purchased at auction over the last 15-20 years were originally furnished by yours truly.

I also do not think it is reasonable to ask you to part with your $ in the spring of the new release season. At the wild/initial en-premier tastings, too many samples have the potential of “alteration” and (IMO) it is much better to wait until the fall, right around a year after the grapes have been plucked to make a more accurate assessment of separation (as far as wheat and chaff are concerned). In addition, the prospect of “adjustment” to samples is nearly zero when you simply show up off season and ask for the wine thief to extract your own sip (versus tasting with 10,000 others at scheduled en-premier events only a few months after the grapes were picked).

Circa November/December 2016, what is my assessment of 2015?

It is good – seriously good.

It’s a combination of 2005 and a year such as 1989 but I also get some of the whimsy in certain wines that 1985 produced. There’s also a bit of 1998 (Right Bank) in the mix and even (dare I say) 1955 or 1959. What I’m trying to say is, regardless of initial $ (which is quite low by comparison to recent “must have” Bordeaux vintages, due in large part to the tanking of the Pound and slide of the Euro against the dollar), the collector and consumer should find their investment to be just about as safe as it gets in the world of fine wine (for both drinking and trading).

While I’m no commodities trader, the nearly 1.00/1.00 current ratio of the Euro (or whatever currency Europe eventually settles on) will not last forever. Yes, it may even dip below 1.00 Dollar/1.00 Euro but the cycle tells us it will also head back to 1.30-1.50+ Dollars/1.00 Euro during the next 20-25+ odd years and even I, as a non-mathematician, can do the math on that one.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

I see WineX is offering the 2015 Lafite for $745/bottle. OMG.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by DavidG »

Interesting read. I have two issues with this analysis:

It's too focused on investment value. I like a good deal, but I buy (bought) Bordeaux for future enjoyment, not future value. But to be fair, he does discuss the vintage's drinking characteristics.

While exchange rates may allow the buyer to acquire these wines at "lower" prices, lower is a relative term. The chateaux have taken most of the future profit out of futures purchases. I doubt that the exchange rate will turn these purchases into investments that will appreciate to nearly the degree that were seen back in the 1980s.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by marcs »

I always like the fanciful comparisons to previous vintages and this one does not disappoint. IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL COMBINATION OF 2005, 1989, 1998 RIGHT BANK, 1985 FOR THOSE 1985 WINES YOU REALLY LIKED, AND ALSO 1955 and 1959 FOR GOOD MEASURE!

Got that clear in your head? I can almost taste it already!
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by stefan »

"I am not in the futures business, but if you beg me, I will take your money now and (maybe) let you have the wine down the road."
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

A large part of the "returns" people have made from holding Bordeaux is simply the longer term decline of the dollar.

I think he's touching on that.

If the euro declines, or continues to, then buying EP, will not be financially wise.

Given that BDX is easy to acquire later, and the chateaux release so much library stock as well, I don't feel like one has to particularly make great efforts to buy early, or at release.

Maybe odd formats, or tiny estates still have some mild logic to it.

I'm really looking more forward the 2015 Rhones, and visited a store yest hoping some Cotes du Rhone would be on the shelves. Not yet.

The big CA self importers like K&L and Winex do seem to have a few already though.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by DavidG »

Cotes du Rhones make great daily drinkers though some have gone a little over-ripe.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by greatbxfreak »

Who is Rimmerman?

I don't quite agree with him. 1989? Different tannin. 1985 is still a beautiful vintage, lighter than 2015. 1998 is different with not á point ripeness of tannin and a bit jammy fruit on Left Bank. 1959 maybe, 1955 maybe.

My view from the start was a mix of 2005, 2009 and 2010.

Now 2016 vintage comparable with....we will see in April next year.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

He's the person responsible for the numerous Garagiste emails. He is piggybacking Comte Flaneurs first call on the 2015s.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

Rimmerman had more thoughts on 2015 BDX, as well as 2016 today.

==========

Recent Impressions 02.02.17

Dear Friends,

As noted yesterday, here’s a brief musing on my recent French impressions from the road…

(all are grossly general comments that can easily be shot down...or maybe not)

• Aside from Burgundy (epic, think 1900), Bordeaux (semi-epic, think 2005 meets 1989 meets 1985) and parts of the Loire (semi-semi-epic but a few too many exaggerated reds - think 2009 meets 1989), 2015 is much better than you think for whites across the country and not as good as you think for reds. The three regions above produced truly great reds but everywhere else? Hmmm. On the other hand, there are some staggering whites out there (even in Chablis – no, I haven’t lost my mind) – they may be massive in scale (and occasionally flabby/high in alcohol) but the best wines are also loaded with tension, tone and follow-through. I will be pummeled for saying this but too many 2015 French reds are four–square, rough, tumble, tannic and somewhat short – it’s as if everything was stuffed into the aromatics, front and middle with somewhat drying and clipped finishes (from drought/heat) - many have little chance to expand or evolve into something interesting. Yes, Burgundy, Bordeaux and the Loire are the exceptions (and certain areas of the Rhone/the South were semi-interesting) but count me among those that are not a 100% believer in 2015 Northern or Southern Rhones (in a general sense). I realize the incredible hype on the vintage (Jancis poses the question: Best in 55 Years?) but I’ve tasted far too many Northern Rhones that were akin to 2003 meets 2009 meets 1959 meets Frankenstein. Another 1947? I don’t think so. I tasted a portfolio of 2015 Cote Rotie that was close to 2003 Madiran. The wines will get “stratospheric” scores but if you are actually going to drink them, be careful. I know you will secure them anyway (because the vintage has such extreme hype and it will always retain superlative investment potential) but be warned. Enough said.

...on the other hand...

• I will also get sand kicked in my face for saying this but...2016 may be the shock of the last decade. It can be a marvelous, esoteric, supple and beautiful vintage for red wine in the southern half of France, especially south of Lyon (north of Lyon, things are too often lean and green) but the heights I’ve tasted in the South draw the studied oenophile in like a nice read of "Musigny for Dummies”. They are silky, aromatic and mysterious and it wasn’t just a Grenache year.

...which takes us to...

• You're going to regret stocking up on a lot of 2015 Southern examples and wish you had stashed 2016's instead. 2016 may not have the rugged aging ability of a “great” vintage but, by contrast, the 2015’s are like TS Elliot’s “The Hollow Men” without the greatness of poetry but the overall point of the title very well defined. After 20-30+ Southern winemakers told me the same thing (“2016 is the vintage I’ve been waiting to make my entire career”) what does that tell you? Supple, highly perfumed, whimsical and echo long, this is a truly special vintage at many addresses in the South but you also have to be careful in 2016 – there are very poor wines right next to grandiose examples. In other words, you have to taste and choose - the vintage can be a conundrum as bottles from directly across the street are ho–hum while the vessel you hold in your hands is otherworldly.

• 2016 is a “yawn” campaign for southern French Rosé - there’s no getting around it. Yes, there are some delightful and lovely examples to ferret out but the majority are green, unripe and lacking in any profound “yum, I want to drink this while basking in the summer sun!” sense of electricity. Many are “good” but don’t expect too many fireworks. It’s not the disaster of 2002 but more on the level of 1996 or 2004 (which produced many lovely wines but they required patience to settle and come around). After a number of very good to great vintages for rosé, I’m not sure the 2016 rosé wines will be allowed the olive branch of patience.

• As far as Bordeaux is concerned, 2016 is about to garner the type of hype reserved for 1982, 1961, 1959 and 1947 (especially on the Right Bank). Believe it. The Merlot dominated Right Bank wines are so ripe and serious (but somehow lower in alcohol than 2010 and lower in acidity or equal to 1982), they are like 2010 meets 1998 meets 1982. They also possess that enviable “wine geek” quality of differentiation – every wine tastes completely different than another. Yes, you will find the odd-ball green or drought-stricken wine but there are just as many “I can’t believe we just made the greatest wine of my lifetime” examples as well. We’ll see about the Left Bank (the drought treated most of the Left Bank in a slightly different way) but this could be a vintage similar to 1998 or, just maybe, even 1959 (century-long Right Bank examples and many incredible Left Bank wines as well, but not the same level of consistency on the Left Bank). The vintage has much lower acidity than 2010 and it is closer to 2003 in that regard (no, don’t hit delete just yet) but the stuffing is more in line with 1982. Consistency is all over the place but you will most definitely want to stay tuned...

• 2015 Bordeaux is still outstanding – not to worry. I still believe the association with 2015 will elevate the 2015’s from Bordeaux to higher ground than their 2016 brethren as 2016 is so inconsistent in so many zones throughout Europe that the general perception will be “2016 is not that great, right?” (even though it may be incredible in certain areas of Bordeaux). You may ultimately think of 2016 in Bordeaux as the 1991 Northern Rhone oddity – a world class result that was the exception to the rule in France.


• Look out for normally genteel red wine regions such as Touraine. In 2015, the bottles normally based on finesse varietals such as Pinot Noir or Gamay can be absolutely fabulous and I am not referring to Jennifer Saunders or The Pet Shop Boys. There’s an extra dimension of structure, mineral-swathed fruit, velvet and spice that has this taster doing cartwheels for the often limpid reds from the Loire (non-Chinon/Bourgueil/St. Nicholas – all three go without saying) and doing even more for the whites – Vouvray especially. One sneaky little detail to look for are the extra-brut sparkling wines from Vouvray that are based on a combination of 2014 (tension) and 2015 (breadth and depth). They could be the finest bottles of froth yet produced in Vouvray (and that is saying an awful lot).

That’s it for now but quite a bit for you to chew on - more notes to come as I find a moment to put pen to keystrokes...
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

He sounds like an idiot. How many people conflate regions for the same vintage in the way he supposes?
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by DavidG »

He's the ultimate salesman.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

I agree with you, although he wasn't actually selling any BDX in that missive.

For my tastes, I find that I like his suggestions for Old World wines.

New World wines, and his mysteries (which maybe once a year I foolishly try), are disappointments for me, and I try to avoid them.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by tiesface »

He just blasted out another piece on 2015/2016 yesterday:

Dear Friends,

Let's continue our discussion...

About what?

Bordeaux.

I’m beating a dead horse at this point but you are about to be impaled by 2016 Bordeaux “greatest vintage in history” hyperbole including the inevitable and sacred Right Bank comparisons to 1947 and 1959 (tinges of 1982 as well). 2010 is probably a more worthy comparison (at least on the Right Bank) but keep in mind the contrarian point of view on 2010 by John Gilman: the 2010 vintage will never shed it’s out of balance and massive tannin/fruit/alcohol ratio that could undoubtedly leave far too many 2010’s as a drying and more alcoholic shell of 1986. The 2016’s may ultimately be fresher than the 2010’s but they can also lean toward the massively extracted and tannic...just like the “darker” side of 2010.

If comparing 2016 to 2010, the most obvious difference is the hit or miss aspect of the new year and its focus Right rather than Left – it is not an across the board “vintage of the century”, rather, there are certain wines within the vintage that just may be the greatest examples ever made at certain addresses (Right Bank) but, right next door to the 100pt certainty, there’s an unsettling “swing and a miss” by a property that abuts the perfection. That is more in line with a year such as 1970 – fantastic and very long lived at many addresses (both Right and Left) but also utter failures at others (1975 also comes to mind to a lesser degree).

Yes, the eventual auction value on certain 2016’s may set a record for their respective properties but I still believe that 2015 as a whole will ultimately hold more value. It is impossible to psychologically escape the “association” with 2015 throughout France, most of Europe and around the world. 20-40 years from now, 2015 should maintain its household name recognition status – even among the casual observer: “Oh right, isn’t 1961 supposed to be great in Germany...or was it Bordeaux...or was it Piedmont?! All 1961’s are great, aren’t they?”

I can see 2015 earning a similar name recognition fate down the line – yes, as recognized as 1961.

2016?

Not so much.

It’s unavoidable that a chasm will slowly divide Bordeaux, 2016 and the rest of France/most of Europe (except, possibly, the Rhone and Tuscany which are also somewhat hit and miss but the “hits” appear to be absolutely stunning and among the most unique elixirs produced in both regions for many years – we will see what happens once the vintage goes through its full elevage).

In addition, the problem of what I call an “island” vintage in Bordeaux is the lack of understanding by the general populous that 2016 (if it reaches its elevage potential) can be a 100pt watershed on par with some of the top vintages of the last half century. An example of another “island” vintage (also a Right focussed year) that has never been accepted as the be-all-end-all is 1998.

As many of you know, 1998 produced what are arguably some of the top Right Bank examples of the last 20+ years. If you blind taste the top 1998’s against nearly any other vintage of the 1990’s and 2000’s, you will be quite surprised by the results. Try as the vintage may, despite VERY high numbers from the pens that matter, it remains a quasi-afterthought compared to other/arguably lesser campaigns on the Right Bank (such as 2010).

In other words, how many mid-level collectors would rather have a selection of 1998’s in their cellar instead of 1995’s or 2000’s or 2009’s/2010’s?

1955’s instead of 1959 or 1961?

Not many (unless they are hyper-knowledgeable)...but the 1955’s and 1998’s can be among the best of the lot (especially on the Right Bank).

It is impossible to discount the “association” affect/effect on the long-term value of a vintage. History shows that perception isn't everything, it’s the only thing...even if the vintage racks up multiple 100pt bottles.

We’ll continue to watch the public (and private) reaction to 2016 over the next few months – will the favorable US exchange rate force the Bordelaise to raise $’s to help balance the “inequity”? Will they instead do the SMART thing and keep $’s the same as the 2015’s or lower? If the $’s come out even with the 2015’s or slightly lower, look out – we could have an exchange-rate fortified 2016 frenzy on our hands.

Stay tuned.

In the meantime, as long as we are harping on potential “association” and heirloom liquid trust-fund possibilities (that you wish to stash away for the next 20-40+ years), allow me to present a list of treasures that are even better now (a year later) than they were at the original en-premier tastings in spring of 2016. Not only is this a good sign for what eventually ends up in the bottle but it’s always nice to secure the best of the vintage much closer to actual bottled release (at the same or nearly the same $’s as en-premier). In addition, all below have significant room for appreciation in numbers, $ and enjoyment :)


Are you buying his theory regarding vintage associations? I think it depends on the strength of the left bank in 2016. If it is truly a right bank vintage only, then sure, it may make sense.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

I think the main takeaway from his hypeorama is that some 2015s, that are well regarded, are offered at lower prices today, than when first tranches were released.

Maybe that's the dollar. Maybe its people waiting for 2016, another Vintage of the Century. Perhaps its the decline of the Russian, Chinese, or $100 oil bid.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AlohaArtakaHoundsong »

AKR wrote:I think the main takeaway from his hypeorama is that some 2015s, that are well regarded, are offered at lower prices today, than when first tranches were released.

Maybe that's the dollar. Maybe its people waiting for 2016, another Vintage of the Century. Perhaps its the decline of the Russian, Chinese, or $100 oil bid.
Maybe it's all bullshit? That's my Occam's Razor moment for today.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

No offense to anyone on this thread or beyond, but does anyone care about new Bordeaux vintages anymore? At least on this board?

There has been so much great weather in Bordeaux since 1995 or even 1982, the notion of a 'great vintage' in Bordeaux (a rare once-a-decade affair once upon a little ice age ago) has become seriously diluted. And aren't we all to old to be buying new vintages anyway? Don't we all have waaaay too much wine already?

And perhaps most importantly, aren't the prices for new vintages stupid when we can backfill all day long at lower prices for fully mature wines that are in a style we know we like (thank you, internet)? And Parker is no longer around to hype things to the moon. Honestly, I really don't know how the Bordelaise are moving this stuff still, and as futures to boot. Someone should teach an MBA/marketing/econ course about the economics of claret.

None of this is about posting about the 2015 vintage -- as a devout wine nerd, a topic I find very interesting and enjoy reading about -- my point is about actual buying.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Comte Flaneur »

I do Patrick.

I am going to buy a shitload of 2016 futures and then freeze my body for 50 years and enjoy 2016 Cheval Blanc, Lafite at all that, which because of the Great Inflation of the 2020s and 2030s are retailing at $100k a bottle.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

Comte Flaneur wrote:I do Patrick.

I am going to buy a shitload of 2016 futures and then freeze my body for 50 years and enjoy 2016 Cheval Blanc, Lafite at all that, which because of the Great Inflation of the 2020s and 2030s are retailing at $100k a bottle.
Move over, Stefan, there's a new wine-buying sheriff in town!

I will buy some 2016s as a birthyear wine for my daughter.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by tiesface »

Blanquito wrote:No offense to anyone on this thread or beyond, but does anyone care about new Bordeaux vintages anymore? At least on this board?

There has been so much great weather in Bordeaux since 1995 or even 1982, the notion of a 'great vintage' in Bordeaux (a rare once-a-decade affair once upon a little ice age ago) has become seriously diluted. And aren't we all to old to be buying new vintages anyway? Don't we all have waaaay too much wine already?

And perhaps most importantly, aren't the prices for new vintages stupid when we can backfill all day long at lower prices for fully mature wines that are in a style we know we like (thank you, internet)? And Parker is no longer around to hype things to the moon. Honestly, I really don't know how the Bordelaise are moving this stuff still, and as futures to boot. Someone should teach an MBA/marketing/econ course about the economics of claret.

None of this is about posting about the 2015 vintage -- as a devout wine nerd, a topic I find very interesting and enjoy reading about -- my point is about actual buying.
I don't fit the mold of the board, but I am 30 and looking to stock my cellar with a handful of favorite chateau. '14/'15 provided an entry fee less than most all good back vintages. '06/'08 is similar, but compared to '14: 1. there is still ~30% markup for many '06/'08 which is not insignificant 2. I'm hopeful '14 will be better

I've been grabbing smaller quantities of '96 left banks and specific picks from the '80s to drink now, but it is not as cost-effective to buy case + quantities.

That's the plan, at least :?
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by jckba »

tiesface --

The mold of the board is a general interest in wine and perhaps more specifically a preference for Bdx wines ;). Age, savings and size of our collections will each have a huge and varying impact on not only our future buying decisions but also for our interest in the next vintage of a century. Wth that being said, I am 38 years old and much younger than some on this board as well but I too face a lot of the same issues with backfilling wines and Bdx wines from the 80's or 90's or even early 00's as they certainly do cost multiples of what they once did upon release.

I for one am also interested in each new vintage and am generally a buyer in each new vintage in some form or another. From what I've read (Rimmerman included), 2015 certainly looks to be a very good vintage across Bdx with higher highs in most cases than their 2014 counterparts except for in the northern Medoc (i.e. Saint Estephe) so if you enjoy these wines I would probably steer you back towards taking another look at the 2014's. Otherwise I completely get that current releases generally cost less than back vintage examples of the same wine and sometimes I struggle with accepting this same reality but that is the name of the game and my only real advice would be to keep in mind that with each new Bdx vintage, the wines I tend to buy and cellar take the better part of a 10 year period to develop the secondary nuances that I want to experience in the glass in front of me and most certainly enjoy the ride!
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

Try auction sites. I recently bought the 96 Pontet Canet for $70, all-inclusive of premiums, etc. The 96 Leoville Barton was also right about that price on auction fairly recently. I got the 2000 Pichon Lalande for $110. I could go on (and on).

Of course, you don't find such prices on retailer's shelves.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by jckba »

Blanquito wrote:Try auction sites. I recently bought the 96 Pontet Canet for $70, all-inclusive of premiums, etc. The 96 Leoville Barton was also right about that price on auction fairly recently. I got the 2000 Pichon Lalande for $110. I could go on (and on).

Of course, you don't find such prices on retailer's shelves.
100% agreed but I am assuming that these were not complete case lots either and were likely odds andends and/or mixed lots, but if not, I think I need to enlist your services for my auction buying!
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by JimHow »

I don't care what anybody says, there's nothing like Bordeaux!
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

Blanquito wrote:No offense to anyone on this thread or beyond, but does anyone care about new Bordeaux vintages anymore? At least on this board?

There has been so much great weather in Bordeaux since 1995 or even 1982, the notion of a 'great vintage' in Bordeaux (a rare once-a-decade affair once upon a little ice age ago) has become seriously diluted. And aren't we all to old to be buying new vintages anyway? Don't we all have waaaay too much wine already?

And perhaps most importantly, aren't the prices for new vintages stupid when we can backfill all day long at lower prices for fully mature wines that are in a style we know we like (thank you, internet)? And Parker is no longer around to hype things to the moon. Honestly, I really don't know how the Bordelaise are moving this stuff still, and as futures to boot. Someone should teach an MBA/marketing/econ course about the economics of claret.

None of this is about posting about the 2015 vintage -- as a devout wine nerd, a topic I find very interesting and enjoy reading about -- my point is about actual buying.
I don't know what the ratio of commenters to lurkers is, nor do I have any insight into what web traffic here is, but it's possible that there are others who are - due to age, circumstances, location - less able to back fill, or don't have mature cellars, or just missed some good years. Those folks might be interested in figuring out which of recent vintages to consume, or lay down. I assume some lurkers are in that camp, but maybe there are less of those than I assume.

Personally - my storage situation and the initial proposed prices of 2015s have kept my wallet (mostly) closed. I've bought under a mixed case, despite reviews that make it sound like a profile I'd like.

Every time I consider buying any I ask myself if I'd rather have 2015 Northern Rhones instead, and usually the answer is for the syrah based wines instead. I don't like buying at auction nor backfilling*, not being as sanguine about bottle condition as Blanquito, but when I do, in general the Rhones I'm interested in are usually 1/10 to 1/20 of the listings compared Bordeaux. So, that region merits cellar space, and pricing, although up in recent years, didn't get Bdx crazy.

But if I was starting from scratch -- a cellar terra novo -- 2015 Bdx would get some allocation, even EP.

* I think HDH and Benchmark are careful what they accept for consignments, and do trust them.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

I admit, the 2015 northern Rhones have my attention too.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Blanquito »

And Arv, please keep posting on this and everything else. I for one enjoy reading and posting about new vintages. My comment really was just about who, if any, is actually planning to buy new vintages and it was good to hear about the "youngsters" and Ian who are still boldly go into the breach.

The funny part is, when I was going in on the 2005s hook, line and sinker, I heard similar comments from the old timers at the time, though my impression was that there was way more activity around the 2005 vintage (at least on wine boards) than any vintage since. Maybe peak wineboard has already come and gone.
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AKR
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

It felt like there was more hype and buying of 2005, but I suppose people had yet to be burned buying EP, whether from merchant defaults (Rare/Premier Cru), or just outright overpaying.

Ten years time has shown that its not magic free money to buy early. My guess is that the only vintage that rewarded those paying up front in the last decade was probably 2008, where the recession depressed the first tranche prices. Not dissimilar to 1990 I suppose.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by tiesface »

Thanks for the advice, jckba. I have been building the cellar for A bit, but I have not been through the full cycle of aging (and enjoying) bdx vintages from near release. There's a certain component to the "chase" of acquiring the wine, as much as I love to drink it. I'm sure many can relate. :D

Blanquito and AKR - thank you for your thoughts. I'll take a deeper look at auctions, too.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by JimHow »

There's a certain component to the "chase" of acquiring the wine, as much as I love to drink it. I'm sure many can relate. :D
oh yes
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by stefan »

I don't chase wine. But it chases me. A lot.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

Rimmerman sent this on the 2016's last night. He doesn't have any to sell.

===================

2016 Bordeaux Update:

Folks, we just may have the single most anticipated vintage of the modern/post 1961 Bordeaux era on our hands. Yes, I’m serious. The incredible thing about 2016 is the quiet and hush you will most likely hear from the Bordelaise themselves. I believe this is the perfect opportunity for them to say nothing. To roll back the hype machine and allow long-winded air-bags such as this scribe to do all the talking and typing that’s required. A strategy in this mold will allow the properties to save face while the liquid in each tasting stem sells itself. 2016 is a year where the wine will do all the reverberating required – the owners and winemakers can simply pour and smile.

The other quite timely occurrence for 2016 (in the post-Parker/emerging classicist youth culture era) is that it’s tailor-made for Neal Martin and Tanzer who are typically unkind to overdone/over-extracted and/or somewhat stylized creations. Much to their palate’s favor, the greater good of 2016 has the near-impossible combination of acidity, freshness and low/moderate alcohol (a la 2014 in Bordeaux/Beaujolais) meshed with echo-deep extractive oomph, terroir overload and mineral stuffing of 2010 in Burgundy or the Northern Rhone. It’s almost a 2015 Red Burgundy clone a year after the fact where everything is elevated (except the alcohol) to the point of cataclysmic harmonic delight. Remember Tanzer’s “you are so going to want them” quote regarding 2015 Red Burgundy? I wouldn’t be surprised if he hits “cut” and “paste” for his reaction to 2016 Bordeaux as well.

Let’s put it this way, when the French critics are skipping all the way back to 1982 and 1961, my prediction of “you’re going to hear the inevitable comparisons to 1947 and 1959” may be a touch too low in register! 2016 will get the nod by a number of critics as the finest campaign since 1982 and 1961 (considered as holy grail vintages a tiny step above the 1959 level). If you consider how many five star campaigns have come between 1961, 1982 and the present, you better get ready for a critic and consumer-generated hype machine that is going to spin at hyper-sonic speed.

The Bordelaise?

You may not hear a word from them – the wine will create all the noise required.

Stay tuned...
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by Racer Chris »

I picked up a couple bottles of 2015 Bordeaux last night, Chateau Gobert (La Lande de Fronsac). With my discount the per bottle price was $8.49.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by DavidG »

"Rimmerman sent this on the 2016's last night. He doesn't have any to sell."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe not today...
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by RPCV »

Wonderful timing....the 2014's are getting dumped, the exchange rate is low and I'm a buyer...
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by jckba »

RPCV wrote:Wonderful timing....the 2014's are getting dumped, the exchange rate is low and I'm a buyer...
I do not agree with the above sentiment stating that the 2014's are getting dumped as most of this vintage has yet to hit our shores or shelves for that matter. And I wouldn't be so sure that b/c the 2015 and 2016 campaigns are garnering such buzz that that will automatically translate into the 2014's getting dumped as I think that for the most part, that this was the first vintage since 2008 that the wines were actually priced relatively fairly. If something is going to get dumped, I would bet on seeing a discounting of the 2013's, 2011's and 2012's first. From my vantage point, for the wines I have purchased and am still looking to purchase, the pricing of the 2014's seem to be trending upwards from their original futures prices (i.e. Calon Segur, Leoville Poyferre, Leoville Barton, Pape Clement, Canon etc) and whether these differences represent second tranche purchases (versus first) or perhaps the ability for someone in the chain to raise margins, I don't know but if that is not what you are seeing please do show me where and what you are looking at.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by tiesface »

I'm seeing about a 10% increase on the prices I paid for 2014 EP
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by AKR »

These are going up in price? I mean other than Canon and a few where people are realizing that if they can't get the 2015 they better get other years? Seems strange to me as the USD is so much stronger now.
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Re: Rimmerman on BDX15

Post by tiesface »

I think it is more a slight retail tax on the bottles that are starting to hit shelves/last opportunity to buy pre-sale before they hit the shelves and not an overall vintage price increase.
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