John Fox update link.

[William P]

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/14/ ... -millions/

[JimHow]

It's still incredible to read about.
Imagine the balls this guy had.
I wonder if there was ever any evidence produced of drugs or alcoholism.

[William P]

My deepest regret on this board was defending this okole (a-hole) early against those who warned it was a probably a scheme.

Jim, I have no information other than articles, but my take is - this was a method of life-style augmentation. Just pure greed.

[Claret]

"As part of his sentence, Fox has agreed to pay at least $45 million in restitution to customers of Premier Cru, and $6.5 million to Premier Cru lenders, according to court documents. Fox said Wednesday that he wants to take computer science courses in prison, and then start a company that will turn him into a billionaire after his release so he can make restitution payments.

If you say so.

[Blanquito]

A side issue, but now that we know he was a crazy crook, I wonder what ever stopped him from selling or making fake wine? It would have addressed his main issue and kept him solvent for much longer...

Or in his mind did he still think he was "honest" (at least until the last 6-9 months when the email "deals" became transparently ridiculous), that all of his "bets" would eventually pan out and everyone would get their wine?

[William P]

Blanq, my experience with some Ponzi criminals, they start out legit, the business model isn't sound, but they think, just one more round and I'll pay everyone off. Of course, after one more round he's deeper in the hole. I'm not sure this is the case with Fox. From what I've read, he liked his life of luxury.

[JCNorthway]

So what am I missing in this story -

Fox had admitted to running what prosecutors described as a “wine Ponzi scheme” from 2010 through 2015 involving $44.9 million in high-end wine orders for which there was no wine.

Through his high-end wine business Premier Cru, Fox collected money for future or “pre-arrival” wine that didn’t exist, and embezzled at least $5 million for himself.

Does that mean that $40 million was spent in the business? (less the $7 million in inventory)

[AKR]

"As part of his sentence, Fox has agreed to pay at least $45 million in restitution to customers of Premier Cru, and $6.5 million to Premier Cru lenders, according to court documents. Fox said Wednesday that he wants to take computer science courses in prison, and then start a company that will turn him into a billionaire after his release so he can make restitution payments.

If you say so.

Perhaps Ms. Holmes of Theranos can give him some pointers.

[Racer Chris]

So what am I missing in this story -
...
Does that mean that $40 million was spent in the business? (less the $7 million in inventory)

In order to keep the charade going he had to deliver some of the wine to some of the people some of the time.
He was sourcing expensive bottles on the open market at prices well above what he had presold them at.
Therefore, much of the $40M went to sales losses.

[AKR]

This is not good....

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vi ... 0#p2352160

Looks like they have a litigator willing to work on contingency basis, so it won't further drain the estate.

There was some guy on WB gloating over all the great deals he got over the years from PC, and even posted a spreadsheet.

Presumably someone dropped a dime on him.

[Blanquito]

I'm still expecting/guessing that clawbacks on individual customers will not happen, except perhaps for a few "financially viable" big fish like the Wilpons in the Madoff scheme.

What's the threshold of untoward profits that the estate would pursue? Most customers were probably represent pretty small potatoes. What if the customer offers to return the wine instead of cash? How far back do they chase? A case could made that any wine delivered in the last ~25 years should be clawed back. Et cetera.