P.S. the lack of '61's is a little embarrassing really.
Palmer's quality
Re: Palmer's quality
The list does beg the question (in addition to, why not me?), what's the top 3 wines from that list?
P.S. the lack of '61's is a little embarrassing really.
P.S. the lack of '61's is a little embarrassing really.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Palmer's quality
I knew the risk was becoming a hate figure, Patrick, but it was fun to compile the list from the cobwebbed depths of my brain. I was just really lucky to get the bug over 25 years ago, to have been paid well in the days when a first growth cost around £500 a case and to go to so many events. A lot of these were at tastings rather than full bottles. These cumulate over time, more than you would think. Especially in the days when these wines were so much more affordable. I remember one of the first events was a 1970 first growth tasting at Imperial College London around 1990, for which I paid something like £50. It was held in the chemistry laboratory and the wines were so disappointing. Another around the same time was a blind 1982 first growth tasting. The smell on walking into the room was mesmerising and intoxicating. I have not tasted much from the 2000s nor regrettably from the 1950s. I still have a fair bit from the mid/late 90s which I will bring to future conventions - they still generally need more time.
My top three Bordeaux wines that I would like to try but probably never will are 53 and 59 Lafite and 59 Mouton. The top three wines from that list is more difficult.
For each property: Lafite 55/66/85/89/95 (tied) Latour 82, Mouton 09, Margaux 10, Haut-Brion 89, Cheval Blanc 82, Ausone 71/82 (tied) Petrus 64/71 (tied), Mission 78, Palmer 83, LLC 10, Yquem 37
My top three Bordeaux wines that I would like to try but probably never will are 53 and 59 Lafite and 59 Mouton. The top three wines from that list is more difficult.
For each property: Lafite 55/66/85/89/95 (tied) Latour 82, Mouton 09, Margaux 10, Haut-Brion 89, Cheval Blanc 82, Ausone 71/82 (tied) Petrus 64/71 (tied), Mission 78, Palmer 83, LLC 10, Yquem 37
Re: Palmer's quality
Like the Comte, I got started in this game at an early age and managed to benefit from low prices and a lot of epic tastings. And like Ian and the BD, my list of vintages thins out dramatically after 2000 or so - the prices just got too far ahead of my means.
I'm sure sdr could put me to shame, but here's my scorecard: For the big eight, I've tasted every vintage of all of them between 1978 and 1990 save the 1978 Ausone. That string ended big time in 1991 which were wildly overpriced (plus Petrus didn't bottle any wine that year!) I've also been lucky to taste the 1959 and 1961 versions of all of them, again except for the 1959 Ausone. Many of these were at a 1959 vs.1961 tasting in the early 1980's that cost $60 and included dinner. Via internet discussion boards, Joe Belmaati wrangled a seat for me at a dinner in Copenhagen where 1934 Lafite and Latour and 1937 Latour were served along with many other old wines - what an amazing night that was! I thought 1949 Latour was better than 1945 at a Latour vertical, 1953 was better than 1949 at a Lafite vertical, and 1947 was the best Mouton at a vertical that admittedly did not include the 1945.
I thought the 1989 Margaux was amazing at dinner at the chateau during the BWE '05 Magical Mystery Tour, but that may have been the environment and the company.
The first time I had 1955 Haut-Brion was on our first anniversary out of half bottle when revisiting the restaurant where we'd had our wedding reception a year earlier. The most recent time was a few weeks ago when DavidG poured it at our belated 60th birthdays celebration. (We were both conceived in 1955 )
Overall, I've been very lucky to share a lot of great bottles with a lot of great people over a lot of years!
I'm sure sdr could put me to shame, but here's my scorecard: For the big eight, I've tasted every vintage of all of them between 1978 and 1990 save the 1978 Ausone. That string ended big time in 1991 which were wildly overpriced (plus Petrus didn't bottle any wine that year!) I've also been lucky to taste the 1959 and 1961 versions of all of them, again except for the 1959 Ausone. Many of these were at a 1959 vs.1961 tasting in the early 1980's that cost $60 and included dinner. Via internet discussion boards, Joe Belmaati wrangled a seat for me at a dinner in Copenhagen where 1934 Lafite and Latour and 1937 Latour were served along with many other old wines - what an amazing night that was! I thought 1949 Latour was better than 1945 at a Latour vertical, 1953 was better than 1949 at a Lafite vertical, and 1947 was the best Mouton at a vertical that admittedly did not include the 1945.
I thought the 1989 Margaux was amazing at dinner at the chateau during the BWE '05 Magical Mystery Tour, but that may have been the environment and the company.
The first time I had 1955 Haut-Brion was on our first anniversary out of half bottle when revisiting the restaurant where we'd had our wedding reception a year earlier. The most recent time was a few weeks ago when DavidG poured it at our belated 60th birthdays celebration. (We were both conceived in 1955
)Overall, I've been very lucky to share a lot of great bottles with a lot of great people over a lot of years!
Re: Palmer's quality
Can I play too? I should have tasting notes for about 99% of these wines on my site, FWIW.
Some of these wines are from my cellar. But several of the best bottles have been opened at shared group dinners over the years. In my youth, I made friends with several older collectors that would pop some of these treasures from time to time. Other bottles have been graciously opened for me in Bordeaux at various dinners over the years. I have never thought this before. But it was not that difficult to put the list together, I just had to look at my site for most of it. Sadly, I did not always take notes, especially for off years. For example, a friend of mine, born in 1967 popped the best 40 bottles from his birth year in 2007, and I only added a few notes years later.
Today, pre 1970 bottles would be close to impossible to taste. The top years might not ever be seen by most people again, unless they are quite lucky, or in the seriously, wealthy category. There are few advantages to growing older, but memories of better, more affordable days is close to the top of the list.
Lafite: 1900, 1901, 1904, 1905, 1907, 1924, 1934, (1935 Lafite Blanc), 1950, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1966, 1975, 1976, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 later this year.
Latour: 1899, 1909, 1919, 1929, 1934, 1937, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955 1957, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1976 1978 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April.
Mouton: 1925, 1928, 1929, 1945, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1975 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in April.
Margaux: 1870, 1893, 1900, 1907, 1928, 1929, 1947 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in March.
Haut-Brion: 1934, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in March
Cheval Blanc: 1921, 1924, 1928, 1934, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1955, 1961, 1964,, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 20005, 2006, 2007, 20008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
Ausone: 1934, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1964, 1967, 1982, 1983, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in just about 10 weeks!
Petrus: 1955, 1959, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971 1975, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2000, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 is coming soon!
Lafleur: 1964, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 is coming my way soon!!!
La Mission: 1940, 1945, 1950, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April!
Palmer: 1921, 1934, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1962 1966, 1967, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986 1989, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April
Yquem: 1890, 1937, 1945, 1949, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1976, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994. 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 20007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015 & yes, 2016 in about 10 weeks from now!!!
Some of these wines are from my cellar. But several of the best bottles have been opened at shared group dinners over the years. In my youth, I made friends with several older collectors that would pop some of these treasures from time to time. Other bottles have been graciously opened for me in Bordeaux at various dinners over the years. I have never thought this before. But it was not that difficult to put the list together, I just had to look at my site for most of it. Sadly, I did not always take notes, especially for off years. For example, a friend of mine, born in 1967 popped the best 40 bottles from his birth year in 2007, and I only added a few notes years later.
Today, pre 1970 bottles would be close to impossible to taste. The top years might not ever be seen by most people again, unless they are quite lucky, or in the seriously, wealthy category. There are few advantages to growing older, but memories of better, more affordable days is close to the top of the list.
Lafite: 1900, 1901, 1904, 1905, 1907, 1924, 1934, (1935 Lafite Blanc), 1950, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1966, 1975, 1976, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 later this year.
Latour: 1899, 1909, 1919, 1929, 1934, 1937, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1955 1957, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1976 1978 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989 1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April.
Mouton: 1925, 1928, 1929, 1945, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1975 1978, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in April.
Margaux: 1870, 1893, 1900, 1907, 1928, 1929, 1947 1953, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1966, 1967, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in March.
Haut-Brion: 1934, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1964, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in March
Cheval Blanc: 1921, 1924, 1928, 1934, 1947, 1949, 1950, 1953, 1955, 1961, 1964,, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 20005, 2006, 2007, 20008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
Ausone: 1934, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1959, 1964, 1967, 1982, 1983, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016 in just about 10 weeks!
Petrus: 1955, 1959, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971 1975, 1978, 1982, 1983, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1993, 2000, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 is coming soon!
Lafleur: 1964, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 is coming my way soon!!!
La Mission: 1940, 1945, 1950, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April!
Palmer: 1921, 1934, 1957, 1959, 1961, 1962 1966, 1967, 1970, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1986 1989, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 in April
Yquem: 1890, 1937, 1945, 1949, 1955, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1975, 1976, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1994. 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 20007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015 & yes, 2016 in about 10 weeks from now!!!
Re: Palmer's quality
I don't know how a post on Chateau Palmer's quality compared to First Growth became a post on how many First Growth I tasted, but I guess it is a American competitive post transformation! But thanks for sharing. By the way, I put my 5$ on Winedinners as one person who sampled almost every vintage of every First Growth.
Back to the original topic now : I had Chateau Palmer on a few vintages, and a few First Growth on few vintages, and from my limited experience i think I've always preferred the First Growth. But I agree that 1983 Chateau Palmer is very special. That very easy and quick analysis make me think that I've preferred the First Growth for their high Cabernet Sauvignon/best Médoc terroir mix. Of course there is Chateau Haut-Brion too that I think I preferred, but that would be the First that has a mouth texture more similar too Chateau Palmer, while having totally different aromas and flavors.
Nic
Back to the original topic now : I had Chateau Palmer on a few vintages, and a few First Growth on few vintages, and from my limited experience i think I've always preferred the First Growth. But I agree that 1983 Chateau Palmer is very special. That very easy and quick analysis make me think that I've preferred the First Growth for their high Cabernet Sauvignon/best Médoc terroir mix. Of course there is Chateau Haut-Brion too that I think I preferred, but that would be the First that has a mouth texture more similar too Chateau Palmer, while having totally different aromas and flavors.
Nic
Re: Palmer's quality
Me too!Nicklasss wrote:I put my 5$ on Winedinners as one person who sampled almost every vintage of every First Growth.
Back to the original topic now : I had Chateau Palmer on a few vintages, and a few First Growth on few vintages, and from my limited experience i think I've always preferred the First Growth.
Which is fine. But at least to me, having tasted a fair amount of Palmer and the First Growths, there are several vintages Palmer is as good as, or better than the First Growths: 1921, 1934, 1961, 1966, 1970, 1983, 1989, 2000, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2015. There are probably others, but this is from tasting the wines. And today, Palmer is making the best wine in their history.
Re: Palmer's quality
To the original question, I don't think Palmer was consistently great enough for promotion to First Growth status. I think the yardstick should be, "How often does a chateau's wine compare favorably with the well-performing firsts of the same vintage?" I suggest "well-performing" so that bad patches for the firsts -- Lafite and Margaux through much of the 60's and 70's, Latour through much of the 80's, etc. -- don't become part of the yardstick by which Palmer's (or LLC's, etc.) vintages are measured. And "in the same vintage" so that a great vintage of the candidate for promotion doesn't get compared to mediocre vintages of the firsts. Averaging one or two vintages a decade when your wine stands with the top firsts of the same year is not enough for promotion in my mind.
All of this has the caveat that, as I said before, my experience with first growths has significantly declined with the last ten vintages or so. From what I've read (thanks, wine-cellar-insider and great-bordeaux-freak!), the quality of a great many wines in Bordeaux has never been better. This is reflected in the pricing, which gets us back to the first point - the decline in my experience. A vicious cycle, indeed! As Jeff lists above, it looks like Palmer has had a great run in the ten vintages. I've tasted many of these and must agree about Palmer, but cannot judge their performance relative to the firsts. So if Palmer has gotten better over the last decade at a faster rate than the firsts have improved over the same period, then Palmer may indeed deserve promotion.
All of this has the caveat that, as I said before, my experience with first growths has significantly declined with the last ten vintages or so. From what I've read (thanks, wine-cellar-insider and great-bordeaux-freak!), the quality of a great many wines in Bordeaux has never been better. This is reflected in the pricing, which gets us back to the first point - the decline in my experience. A vicious cycle, indeed! As Jeff lists above, it looks like Palmer has had a great run in the ten vintages. I've tasted many of these and must agree about Palmer, but cannot judge their performance relative to the firsts. So if Palmer has gotten better over the last decade at a faster rate than the firsts have improved over the same period, then Palmer may indeed deserve promotion.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Palmer's quality
Jeff I love your tongue in cheek: "from my limited experience...."what were your top wines from each estate? I see as the official Pomerol Lover you substituted in Lafleur for LLC - fair cop. But what a magnificent set of memories...to reminisce with your family and friends.
I would imagine Francois would need a few days to compile his list
I would imagine Francois would need a few days to compile his list
Re: Palmer's quality
Agree on Francois. For some reason, I have little experience with older LLC. The few older vintages, pre 1982 I have tried have all not been very interesting. IMO, they probably had a fairly long down period that turned around with the 82 vintage.Comte Flaneur wrote:Jeff I love your tongue in cheek: "from my limited experience...."what were your top wines from each estate? I see as the official Pomerol Lover you substituted in Lafleur for LLC - fair cop. But what a magnificent set of memories...to reminisce with your family and friends.
I would imagine Francois would need a few days to compile his list
Re: Palmer's quality
Off the top of my head...Comte Flaneur wrote:Jeff I love your tongue in cheek: "from my limited experience...."what were your top wines from each estate?
Lafite, 53, 59 & 96.
Latour, 29, 59, 61, 82, 09, 10
Mouton, 45, 61, 82, 09, 10
Margaux, 1870, 1900, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
HB, 59, 61, 89, 09, 10
Cheval, 1921, 1990, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Ausone, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
Lafleur, 64, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
La Mission HB, 45, 55, 59, 61, 82, 89, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010
Petrus, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Palmer, 21, 61, 2009, 2010, 2015
Yquem, 37, 45, 75, 01, 09, 10, 11, 15
I could change my mind to some extent in the morning... But this is a good guess....
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Chateau Vin
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Re: Palmer's quality
2009 and 2010 seem to be top vintages for top estates in bordeaux per you Jeff. What happened to Lafite in your opinion Jeff? Was it good but not great?Jeff Leve wrote:Off the top of my head...Comte Flaneur wrote:Jeff I love your tongue in cheek: "from my limited experience...."what were your top wines from each estate?
Lafite, 53, 59 & 96.
Latour, 29, 59, 61, 82, 09, 10
Mouton, 45, 61, 82, 09, 10
Margaux, 1870, 1900, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
HB, 59, 61, 89, 09, 10
Cheval, 1921, 1990, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Ausone, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
Lafleur, 64, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
La Mission HB, 45, 55, 59, 61, 82, 89, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010
Petrus, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Palmer, 21, 61, 2009, 2010, 2015
Yquem, 37, 45, 75, 01, 09, 10, 11, 15
I could change my mind to some extent in the morning... But this is a good guess....
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JimHow
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Re: Palmer's quality
I've had a few on that list.Off the top of my head...
Lafite, 53, 59 & 96.
Latour, 29, 59, 61, 82, 09, 10
Mouton, 45, 61, 82, 09, 10
Margaux, 1870, 1900, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
HB, 59, 61, 89, 09, 10
Cheval, 1921, 1990, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Ausone, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
Lafleur, 64, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010, 2015
La Mission HB, 45, 55, 59, 61, 82, 89, 2000, 2005, 2009, 2010
Petrus, 2000, 2009, 2010, 2015
Palmer, 21, 61, 2009, 2010, 2015
Yquem, 37, 45, 75, 01, 09, 10, 11, 15
I could change my mind to some extent in the morning... But this is a good guess....
I loved the '59 Lafite, even more than the '61 Lafite. It had such an interesting personality.
I loved both the 59 and 61 Latour. I was amazed at how youthful and minty the 61 Latour still is.
That '82 Mouton that Stefan uncorked for us at his house this past September was truly profound.
The 2000 Margaux is immense. (The 1990 Margaux is one of my Top Five greatest wines.)
1989 HB... Just so young.
2001 d'Yquem is amazing and I'm pleased to see you have the '11 on your list, I was really blown away by that wine when we tasted it at the property in 2015.
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